Co-habiting, €10/wk, pee'd off

katie86

Hi All,
Im 23 and living with my boyfriend. I finished college in May and worked until the end of December when my contract ended. When i called to the dole office i discovered i didn't have enough PRSI contributions from last year to qualify for jobseekers benefit, so have been 'means tested' for Jobseekers Allowance.

It turns out I'm only entitled to about €10 a week, as my boyfriends salary was taken into account and he is now expected to support me, he earns about €600 a week. However none of his outgoings were means tested, child maintenance, car loan, bills,rent, pension etc., so how can they know he's able to support me?. I'm entitled to no rent allowance either.

The welfare officer told me I was "lucky" to have an income coming into the household at all. I expalined to him that I was entitled to none of my boyfriends income, and that in no way was he obliged to support me. When I did work I payed half of everything.

As I'm 23, to the best of my knowledge, even if I go to live with my Mum, her income will be taken into account and the 'benefit and privilege criteria' will come into play.

I feel like the welfare are trying to pawn me off to whoever I can sponge off, and as an Irish citizen I feel they are completley ignoring my dignity.

I feel there is something very wrong with the system, and that my age group in my situation have fallen through the cracks.

I'm heading back to the welfare office in the morn too clarify everything so will keep u posted.

Is there anyone else in a similar situation to myself, and has anyone taken it to their local TDs etc.?

Thanks for reading,Any advice is appreciated!

Mr. Presentable

Get a job. Seriously, not trying to be judgmental or trivialise your situation, but at 23 you have made no significant contribution to the state yet, so the Welfare system doesn't treat you very well. The easiest way to deal with the unacceptable situation you find yourself in is to find work. And, yes, I am aware there is rampant unemployment, but there are also c60,000 unfilled job vacancies out there.

katie86

Believe me I've applied for many many jobs, the amount of applicants for these jobs make it extremely competitive and often I dont have enough years of experience under my belt for alot of the jobs.

But that is not the issue, If i lived in a house where i was not sleeping in the same room and having sex with the person, I would most likely be entitled to alot more. Thats fundamentally wrong in my opinion.

uoluol

Sorry, but that is just the way it is. As you don't have enough PRSI contributions you can't claim jobseeker's benefit. You are eligible to apply only for Jobseeker's Assistance, and there is no automatic entitlement to this.

You are living with your boyfriend as part of a couple, so therefore it is taken that all income in the household is shared. Unfortunately, being part of a couple you are jointly assessed. No way around this I'm afraid. It's nothing to do with dignity, just that you have not contributed enough.

You would be better off getting a part time or casual job, that way you would start earning PRSI stamps. You get a PRSI stamp if you earn over €45 a week - the threshold is quite low.

professore

Read this thread .... this widow with 3 kids is being thrown out of her house because she owes € 800 to the council. What hope do you think you have?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055502007

Breaktown

I'm in the same situation. I get €85 a week which I can't live on so I've had to spend all my savings from work. Before I went on welfare, myself and my boyfriend split everything 50:50. Welfare don't take any of that into account. They don't care how much you spend on rent, even though they ask for the amount on one of their many forms. My biggest issue with them is that they say that he gives me 60% of his income. I thought a means test was supposed to be an individual assesment, not just a random number they decide.

I appealed and they turned it down. I've taken it to one TD who brought it to Mary Hanafins attention. Her reply was simply that if you're cohabiting then you're assessed as a married couple, which I already know. I've since taken in to another TD and I'm waiting on word. I'm not expecting to get any more money, I just want an explanation for their "system."

bobbbb

Split up with your boyfriend. Move into another room and get social welfare out again.

bobbbb

Breaktown wrote: »

Her reply was simply that if you're cohabiting then you're assessed as a married couple, which I already know.

Funny that isnt it and yet when you are both working you dont get the full tax credits because you are NOT treated as a married couple in that case.

Id say there is a case for you in this if you wanted to bring it to court.

Tawny

I was in the same position as you a while back so I sympathise.

I do remember seeing an article in a paper a while back about this situation. The article was basically saying that someone could challenge this inconsistency legally as if you are cohabiting and working, you are assessed for tax as a single person, but if claiming welfare you are assessed as a couple.

I can't find a link to the article though.

Someone should challenge it. I didn't but there is the whole can't afford a lawyer thing.

Sleipnir

Breaktown wrote: »

Her reply was simply that if you're cohabiting then you're assessed as a married couple, which I already know. I've since taken in to another TD and I'm waiting on word. I'm not expecting to get any more money, I just want an explanation for their "system."

You see, this is the amazing part.

Co-habiting eh? Well, you can't expect to be thought of in law as the same as a married couple! Tax? Inheritance? Child access? Forget it, ye're "strangers" in the eyes of the law!

"You want to claim off the state? Well you're living with someone so if you want the state to pay you, you're assessed as a married couple!

Well Ms Hanafin? How can it be both ways? How is that fair?

katie86

Thanks for replies
I think Sleipner has nailed it on the head, the system is just way too consistent, and the government are getting away with it. There is no fairness in being penalised if you live in the same house as your boyfriend.

I was fortunate enough for my parent's financial support during college,especially in my final year, so it wasn't absolutely necessary to work. So beacuse I was in college and educating myself so that I wouldn't be a burden upon the state, I'm being penalised because i didnt have enough stamps? theyre's just too many holes.

Just a thought, do gay/lesbian couples get treated the same as a man/woman relationship co-habiting in the eyes of the welfare?

CyrildoSquirrel

katie86 wrote: »

Just a thought, do gay/lesbian couples get treated the same as a man/woman relationship co-habiting in the eyes of the welfare?

I'm nearly certain that gay/lesbian couples are treated as two completely seperate individuals, even if they are co-habiting and have been for twenty or thirty years.

But I'm open to correction.

Mr. Presentable

professore wrote: »

Read this thread .... this widow with 3 kids is being thrown out of her house because she owes € 800 to the council. What hope do you think you have?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055502007

professore, I have read that thread and nowhere does it mention 3 kids, plus the debt has now jumped to €1164 . I smell scam.

dresden8

It's true, you shouldn't have to sponge off your boyfriend, sponge off me instead.

Breaktown

Tawny wrote: »

Someone should challenge it. I didn't but there is the whole can't afford a lawyer thing.

I wish I could take it to court, but I don't have the money (!) and it would never win anyway. I still want them to answer me though. I also wrote to the deciding officer and he replied but never answered me directly either. I'm not going to stop until somebody explains this 60% thing and why they don't do a proper means test.

Sleipnir wrote: »

You see, this is the amazing part.

Co-habiting eh? Well, you can't expect to be thought of in law as the same as a married couple! Tax? Inheritance? Child access? Forget it, ye're "strangers" in the eyes of the law!

"You want to claim off the state? Well you're living with someone so if you want the state to pay you, you're assessed as a married couple!

Well Ms Hanafin? How can it be both ways? How is that fair?

I wouldn't have as much of a problem being assessed as a married couple (we are intending to get married at some point anyway) if they were consistant with everything. But they arrange it in a way that suits them. The only good thing we get out of it is that we can both have medical cards, seeing as though he is forced to support both of us.

CyrildoSquirrel wrote: »

I'm nearly certain that gay/lesbian couples are treated as two completely seperate individuals, even if they are co-habiting and have been for twenty or thirty years.

But I'm open to correction.

I think it's on citizens information. Gay people have no rights as a couple.

katie86

I ve just been to the welfare office and now I'm even more frustrated than before, as they have no told me I am entitled to nothing, as my boyfriends income is in exess of the means test.

I got no answers to any of my questions, I asked him how did the welfare know my boyfriend was able to support me without them knowing what his outgoings were. He said that was irrelevant!! and that was between myself and my partner. grrr:eek:...he was no help whatsoever.

Just for laughs I asked him what would the situation be if I were a lesbian, he said it would be different and my partners income wouldnt be taken into account, at which point he went puce red and nearly threw the appeals form at me:)

The_Conductor

bobbbb wrote: »

Funny that isnt it and yet when you are both working you dont get the full tax credits because you are NOT treated as a married couple in that case.

Id say there is a case for you in this if you wanted to bring it to court.

Actually- with individualisation of the tax bands (by McCreevy in 2002) its far more favourable to be accessed for tax purposes as strangers than it is as a married couple. Married couples cannot merge tax bands etc- as they once could. When this came in- If there is only one person in a marriage working- they were automatically almost 7k worse off overnight (this was mitigated to a small extent by a 1000 Euro credit for a stay at home 'homemaker'- which they are now talking of also abolishing).

S.

bobbbb

katie86 wrote: »

I ve just been to the welfare office and now I'm even more frustrated than before, as they have no told me I am entitled to nothing, as my boyfriends income is in exess of the means test.

I got no answers to any of my questions, I asked him how did the welfare know my boyfriend was able to support me without them knowing what his outgoings were. He said that was irrelevant!! and that was between myself and my partner. grrr:eek:...he was no help whatsoever.

Just for laughs I asked him what would the situation be if I were a lesbian, he said it would be different and my partners income wouldnt be taken into account, at which point he went puce red and nearly threw the appeals form at me:)

Go back in tell him you had a massive fight with your boyfriend when you told him he had to support you and dumped you on the spot.

Tell them you are now single, because of them and you would like some moneys please as noone is supporting you anymore.

The_Conductor

bobbbb wrote: »

Go back in tell him you had a massive fight with your boyfriend when you told him he had to support you and dumped you on the spot.

Tell them you are now single, because of them and you would like some moneys please as noone is supporting you anymore.

Lol....
It would probably work- but they could check up (they are doing extra inspections given the massive increase in claimants)

S.

katie86

bobbbb wrote: »

Go back in tell him you had a massive fight with your boyfriend when you told him he had to support you and dumped you on the spot.

Tell them you are now single, because of them and you would like some moneys please as noone is supporting you anymore.

I told them in the welfare office that I couldn't afford to live in my home anymore, and that my boyfriend would not be supporting me and he said "Well thats between yourselves". I told him it wasn't as the welfare had made the decision for us, he was hopeless

If I go to live at my mams, her income would be assesed and the 'benefit and privilege' criteria would come into play. The same with the rest of my family as Im 23 and its only when you are 24, you are assesed differently. I dont see the difference between 23 and 24, Im an adult in the eyes of the law aren't I?

The only way I could get away with it is saying Im renting a room in another house, however I dont know anyone locally that I could this with...

Femelade

I think you should seriously tell them that you and your boyfriend split up and you should be treated as a person renting a room in a house. not co-habiting.

katie86

Femmy wrote: »

I think you should seriously tell them that you and your boyfriend split up and you should be treated as a person renting a room in a house. not co-habiting.

Yea I'd say its worth a try, they would have to take you seriously, but could they refuse you on the grounds that they detected fraud or something i wonder?If i knew some one locally that i could say i was rentin a room in their house i would.

bobbbb

Femmy wrote: »

I think you should seriously tell them that you and your boyfriend split up and you should be treated as a person renting a room in a house. not co-habiting.

The only way they could check that out is if they were watching you shagging.
I would seriously do this.
You can split up with someone and still share a house.

marti8

nipplenuts wrote: »

Get a job. Seriously, not trying to be judgmental or trivialise your situation, but at 23 you have made no significant contribution to the state yet, so the Welfare system doesn't treat you very well. The easiest way to deal with the unacceptable situation you find yourself in is to find work. And, yes, I am aware there is rampant unemployment, but there are also c60,000 unfilled job vacancies out there.

Can I ask where you got the circa 60,000 unfilled job vacancies stat from? I somehow doubt that VERY much and would actually be very happy to be proven wrong.

OP, you should move out, rent a tiny, crappy room in some houseshare (now you don't actually have to sleep there all the time or anything, might set you back anywhere between €50 to €60 pw but you'd have €200+ in dole and you could claim rent allowance, if the landlord took it)......and let them check as much as they want, you won't have done anything illegal. Then tell them: hey, we no longer co-habit, I live independently....simple as that.

Mrs OBumble

Sleipnir wrote: »

You see, this is the amazing part.

Co-habiting eh? Well, you can't expect to be thought of in law as the same as a married couple! Tax? Inheritance? Child access? Forget it, ye're "strangers" in the eyes of the law!

"You want to claim off the state? Well you're living with someone so if you want the state to pay you, you're assessed as a married couple!

Well Ms Hanafin? How can it be both ways? How is that fair?

It's not fair.

However the only way to make it fair and to be consistent with human rights legislation would be to widen the criteria for the various other things (tax, inheritance etc) to co-habitating couples. Media reports (sorry, no refs at hand, try google if you want 'em) suggest that the cost of doing this would be enormous, so the government had decided it cannot do so at the moment. And even if they could afford to do so, significant portions of Irish society don't believe that they SHOULD do so, (which is a whole different argument).

In short, someone (rich!) needs to take the court case. The rest of us need to quit complaining (yes, I'm co-habitating too!) and get on with it: wasting energy getting angry here, or in the Welfare offices, won't change the law, and won't make it possible for the Welfare staff to pay us any more.

Xiney

While it's entirely possible that your relationship wasn't at the point where you were sharing finances, I'd have to question your partner's commitment to you if he wasn't willing to support you in rough times.

If it's not at that stage, I suggest you move out since you can't afford to live with him anymore. If you move in with an aunt or someone who isn't a "guardian" they can't go into the whole benefit and privilege criteria.

If he does decide to support you, then at least take comfort in the fact that since you ARE receiving a social welfare payment you are eligible for free fees on FAS courses. In fact, if you get taking a daytime, fulltime FAS course, you can get the education allowance (equivalent to the full 204 euro, not means tested) for the duration of the course.

Moonbeam

OP - Fair play to you for being honest and I do not think there is any other way to go about it.
I think the system is extremely unfair but it is the system and it is the way things are unfortunately.
I don't know how you managed to get to 23 with out working full tiem but it is irrelevent.
It is hard as you can not appeal to the claims bored on the grounds of having been financially indepependent to start off with as obviously you were not,but if you are really stuck tell them that you see your only option as being moving out on your own and claiming rent allowance and job seekers.
They might be able to help you out a bit.
Keep job hunting!

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

bobbbb wrote: »

Go back in tell him you had a massive fight with your boyfriend when you told him he had to support you and dumped you on the spot.

Tell them you are now single, because of them and you would like some moneys please as noone is supporting you anymore.

You are not allowed to recommend a fraudulent activity on this forum. Please remember this in future.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

bobbbb wrote: »

The only way they could check that out is if they were watching you shagging.
I would seriously do this.
You can split up with someone and still share a house.

Please don't recommend fraudulent activities on this forum.

popebenny16

just as the mod of the forum let me say that anyone who advocates anything that is designed to fraudulently obtain a benefit will be banned from here forever from the moment they make the post - even if it is a joke post.

ie- no warning will be given.

:cool:

Cabaal

Reading through this thread I am actually amazed at the amount of people making suggestions that the OP break the law and defraud the state (and any tax payers such as myself! :mad:

Muppets the lot of them imho

lizeob

katie86 wrote: »

Hi All,
Im 23 and living with my boyfriend. I finished college in May and worked until the end of December when my contract ended. When i called to the dole office i discovered i didn't have enough PRSI contributions from last year to qualify for jobseekers benefit, so have been 'means tested' for Jobseekers Allowance.

It turns out I'm only entitled to about €10 a week, as my boyfriends salary was taken into account and he is now expected to support me, he earns about €600 a week. However none of his outgoings were means tested, child maintenance, car loan, bills,rent, pension etc., so how can they know he's able to support me?. I'm entitled to no rent allowance either.

The welfare officer told me I was "lucky" to have an income coming into the household at all. I expalined to him that I was entitled to none of my boyfriends income, and that in no way was he obliged to support me. When I did work I payed half of everything.

As I'm 23, to the best of my knowledge, even if I go to live with my Mum, her income will be taken into account and the 'benefit and privilege criteria' will come into play.

I feel like the welfare are trying to pawn me off to whoever I can sponge off, and as an Irish citizen I feel they are completley ignoring my dignity.

I feel there is something very wrong with the system, and that my age group in my situation have fallen through the cracks.

I'm heading back to the welfare office in the morn too clarify everything so will keep u posted.

Is there anyone else in a similar situation to myself, and has anyone taken it to their local TDs etc.?

Thanks for reading,Any advice is appreciated!

Hey rly sory about ur situation. I think the exact same is going to happen to me. The system is screwed up. Dont mean to be disciminating against foreigners or blacks, but they are the ones who are spnging off the government. thare getting all of the taxpayers money and sending it home. The Irish government need to start waking up

mp22

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