Speed camera question

Thoie

The setup:

60kmph zone. A truck in front of me driving at (rough guess) 70kph. It was accelerating away from me. Me, a few car lengths behind, travelling at 63kph. White van parked on left-hand side of the road.

So, as the truck passes the van, there's a flash - I estimate that the van was about half way along the body of the truck at that stage.

So

1) Does that mean it was me that was being photographed?
2) If so, roughly how long does it take for a fine/ticket/notice to turn up in the post?

kingtut

Thoie wrote: »

1) Does that mean it was me that was being photographed?
2) If so, roughly how long does it take for a fine/ticket/notice to turn up in the post?

1. You were both breaking the speed limit so it is quite possible that you were photographed. He was going faster than you however this should not make a difference.

2. I'd imagine anything from a few days up to 3 weeks.

Next time stick to 60 and you won't have to worry about being photographed.

OldmanMondeo

Travelling at 3kph over the limit, you probably won't hear anything about it. even at 70 could be ok.

Cabaal

If they got a photo of you and you get fined you#ll just have to take it as you were speeding

Topper Harley

The ticket can take up to six weeks to come but it's unlikely that any guard out there would send one for such a small amount over the limit. Driving 1 or 2 miles over the limit is considered progressive driving. Also, I've heard people say that a car’s speedometer can be a few mph out (8% or so) but I'm not sure if that's true. I wouldn't be too worried about though.

Thoie

kingtut wrote: »

1. You were both breaking the speed limit so it is quite possible that you were photographed.

Agreed, I didn't suggest otherwise. I was asking about the positioning of cameras.

Eoin

Topper Harley wrote: »

The ticket can take up to six weeks to come but it's unlikely that any guard out there would send one for such a small amount over the limit.

Do they pick and choose which speeding offences are issued that are captured by a GATSO though?

Danbo!

Thoie wrote: »

Me, a few car lengths behind, travelling at 63kph.

If your speedo said 63kph, there's a good chance you were below 63kph, 59-60ish, should be fine

Topper Harley

kingtut wrote: »

You were both breaking the speed limit so it is quite possible that you were photographed. He was going faster than you however this should not make a difference.

Next time stick to 60 and you won't have to worry about being photographed.

I think it's a bit harsh to say 3kph over is speeding. You surely can't expect everyone to drive around 10kph under the speed limit in case they stray over or constantly keep their eyes on their speedometer.

kingtut

Thoie wrote: »

I was asking about the positioning of cameras.

You also asked Does that mean it was me that was being photographed and that is what my answer was in relation to.

Topper Harley wrote: »

I think it's a bit harsh to say 3kph over is speeding.

I disagree. Anything faster than the legal speed limit for that road is speeding. It is called a speed limit for a reason. Whether you are 3kph over or 30kph it is still speeding. Only difference is 3kph would be classed as speeding where as 30km would be classed as excessive speeding.

Eoin

kingtut wrote: »

I disagree. Anything faster than the legal speed limit for that road is speeding. It is called a speed limit for a reason. Whether you are 3kph over or 30kph it is still speeding. Only difference is 3kph would be classed as speeding where as 30km would be classed as excessive speeding.

The thing is, you will probably fail your driving test for not making sufficient progress unless you drive over the speed limit.

kingtut

eoin wrote: »

The thing is, you will probably fail your driving test for not making sufficient progress unless you drive over the speed limit.

Your statement is wrong on so many. I seriously hope your statement was a joke, otherwise I'm seriously worried for you and anyone with the same attitude.


wtf I really do not see how on earth you came up with this statement. I have so many responses to this yet none will be sufficient enough to express my disbelief in what you just said. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

You will fail your driving test if you go over the speed limit! :eek::eek::eek: Also, if you are already driving at the speed limit then you cannot make any more progress. Sounds to me like you do not really understand what progress is. You should be making gentle progress at all times and not impeding the flow of traffic, whilst at the same time not breaking any road rules which includes speeding.

This is one of the most shocking statements I have read....ever! :eek::eek::eek: Anyone agree or am I alone in this.....

OldmanMondeo

kingtut wrote: »

Your statement is wrong on so many levels and I am too shocked to give it a proper reply.

I seriously hope your statement was a joke, otherwise I'm seriously worried.

Got to agree with Eoin. When I done my lessons and test many moons ago, I was told to drive around 10% more than the indicated speed limit, but never any more, Should I drove any less than that it was a possibility that I would fail my test. Guess what, I drove as advised and passed first time.

3kph over the limit is nothing. You would easily do that on a downhill stretch. In general the Guard's will give you 10% if the speed limit. I will admit at going through that old Fixed Gatso across from the Spa hotel in Lucan about 5 - 8 mph over the limit and never got flashed.

TomMc

eoin wrote: »

The thing is, you will probably fail your driving test for not making sufficient progress unless you drive close to the speed limit.

Fixed;)

Especially in 30/40mph or 50/60kph zones.

Topper Harley

I was told years ago during my driving lessons that 1 or 2 mph over the limit was perfectly fine but if I went as high as 5mph over I was strictly told to watch my speed. Now this was all in miles not kilometers.

3kph is nothing. I'm not defending speeding and I'm not trying to start an argument but a little common sense on the road is no harm. I don't believe there're any drivers out there who don't regularly drive 3 kph over the limit. I've heard that a lot of Guards usually don't give you a ticket unless you're almost 20 kph over.

I was once pulled over by an unmarked car for doing 140kph on a motorway (it was late and the road was almost empty). He just told me to slow down and I have.

kingtut

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

I was told to drive around 10% more than the indicated speed limit, but never any more,

I seriously cannot believe anyone, even a driving instructor would recommend you drive over the speed limit. Have you got proof that this is something they do?

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

In general the Guard's will give you 10% if the speed limit.

That's true however you are still speeding and any Guard can legally fine you for speeding..claiming that you were only doing a max of 10% over the limit will not make a difference.

Topper Harley

kingtut wrote: »

I seriously cannot believe anyone, even a driving instructor would recommend you drive over the speed limit. Have you got proof that this is something they do?

Like I said, similar thing was said to me. RAC driving instructor. I drove the way I was taught and passed the test first time.

kingtut

I think we are starting to stray from the OPs original however my main point is this:
If you go over the speed limit then you are speeding and in turn breaking a law!
Yes it is true that many police will turn a blind eye if you are within the range of the speed limit + 10kph
However, they are more than entitled to fine you and if they do you have no right to complain.
That is all I have to say on the matter really.

Duckjob

kingtut wrote: »

I seriously cannot believe anyone, even a driving instructor would recommend you drive over the speed limit. Have you got proof that this is something they do?

I remember my instructor saying something (a long time ago now) along those lines as well.

OP based on what you've said I would be very, very surprised if you get a ticket.

As another poster pointed out, taking into account the slight overreading on most speedos at that speed and you probably weren't more than 1-2kph over the limit.

I do that all the time. Screw the PC arseology: I'd consider it a lot more dangerous to be spending half my time with my eyes on the speedo obsessing over my speed than to maybe drift 2-3 over a limit while paying full attention to the road ahead.

Thoie

Seriously, why are people arguing? If I get ticketed for it I get ticketed for it. The speed limit is 60, I was doing 63, I deserve whatever the law decides to do about it. If they want to make an example of me and hang me by my ankles at the crossroads I might whine, but pretty much anything else is up to the gardai.

My second question has been answered (Fines/tickets/men with guns/peasants with pitchforks) will turn up somewhere between 2 days to 6 weeks.

I'm sorry I even mentioned the speed of the bloody truck in the first question - it's irrelevant to what I was doing. My question was centering around the positioning of the cameras and whether I should be expecting a ticket, not whether I deserve it or not.

Drummerboy08

The guards can pick and choose what cars get fined from the vans. Most wont bother, as It will be too much paperwork for 3kmph over the speed limit, and if you were to appeal it, there is a good chance it would be thrown out.

As someone else pointed out, there is a margin of error on the speedo, you might not have even been over the limit. Has your car got a digital speedo, or is it a clock? How do you know the exact speed you were travelling at? I know it would be hard to say 63 if it was a clock.

I wouldnt worry too much about it.

OldmanMondeo

Thoie wrote: »

Seriously, why are people arguing? If I get ticketed for it I get ticketed for it. The speed limit is 60, I was doing 63, I deserve whatever the law decides to do about it. If they want to make an example of me and hang me by my ankles at the crossroads I might whine, but pretty much anything else is up to the gardai.

My second question has been answered (Fines/tickets/men with guns/peasants with pitchforks) will turn up somewhere between 2 days to 6 weeks.

I'm sorry I even mentioned the speed of the bloody truck in the first question - it's irrelevant to what I was doing. My question was centering around the positioning of the cameras and whether I should be expecting a ticket, not whether I deserve it or not.

I would doubt very much that you would get a ticket for driving 63 in a 60 zone. I would also doubt that the truck would get a ticket. Yes you are right, and so is kingtut, you were exceeding the speed limit and yes you could receive a fine and 2 points, but highly unlikley.

Thoie

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

How do you know the exact speed you were travelling at? I know it would be hard to say 63 if it was a clock.

I wouldnt worry too much about it.

I'm not too worried, was mostly just curious (and now I really regret having asked )

The reason I'm saying 63 is that the speedo was just below the line of 40mph (old speedo). If I was aiming for precision I'd say 62.4kmph, but that's just getting silly.

Drummerboy08

Thoie wrote: »

I'm not too worried, was mostly just curious (and now I really regret having asked )

The reason I'm saying 63 is that the speedo was just below the line of 40mph (old speedo). If I was aiming for precision I'd say 62.4kmph, but that's just getting silly.

So it could have been 62 or 64 either?

I'd say you'll be alright. It wasnt on the Naas road by any chance was it? I think i might have just escaped it this morning. In the usual spot.

Cookie_Monster

eoin wrote: »

The thing is, you will probably fail your driving test for not making sufficient progress unless you drive over the speed limit.

+1 but I would say close to/ at rather than over per se

Stee wrote: »

If your speedo said 63kph, there's a good chance you were below 63kph, 59-60ish, should be fine

+1 on this also. If my speedo is at 60, my gps will read 57/58. Not much difference I know but the prinicipal is valid. Car speedo have* to state a (slightly) higher speed than actual. It's come up on this board many many times, a quick search will find lots of references.

* I've no proof of this but it was mentioned in numerous previous threads

OldmanMondeo

kingtut wrote: »

I seriously cannot believe anyone, even a driving instructor would recommend you drive over the speed limit. Have you got proof that this is something they do?

Well thay did and I passed first time. No I have no proof. However I have been driving like this for years, passed many a Gatso / check point and never got a speeding ticket.

kingtut wrote: »

That's true however you are still speeding and any Guard can legally fine you for speeding..claiming that you were only doing a max of 10% over the limit will not make a difference.

True, travelling in excess of the speed limit is technically speeding and you could get a ticket for it. If I did get done for traveling in excess for the speed limit, when I actually was, I would have no defence and would pay the fine and take the points. But you will not get done for driving within 10% more than the speed limit.

kingtut

At the end of the day almost everyone who has contributed to this thread has said something that is questionnable by someone else.

Common sense should be the main road rule that people follow

Eoin

No, despite not using a vast amount of emoticons, that was not a joke. I was told by 2 or 3 different instructors that if I did 30MPH in the test, I would fail. I was told to do as close to 32-33MPH. Accordingly, I did this in my test and passed.

I didn't record my lesson, so can't offer any "proof".

Please spare me your indignation. If that is really one of the most shocking statements you've read online, then I would suggest you've had a blessed life.

kingtut wrote: »

Your statement is wrong on so many. I seriously hope your statement was a joke, otherwise I'm seriously worried for you and anyone with the same attitude.

wtf I really do not see how on earth you came up with this statement. I have so many responses to this yet none will be sufficient enough to express my disbelief in what you just said. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

You will fail your driving test if you go over the speed limit! :eek::eek::eek: Also, if you are already driving at the speed limit then you cannot make any more progress. Sounds to me like you do not really understand what progress is. You should be making gentle progress at all times and not impeding the flow of traffic, whilst at the same time not breaking any road rules which includes speeding.

This is one of the most shocking statements I have read....ever! :eek::eek::eek: Anyone agree or am I alone in this.....

kingtut wrote: »

I seriously cannot believe anyone, even a driving instructor would recommend you drive over the speed limit. Have you got proof that this is something they do?

Cookie_Monster

eoin wrote: »

No, despite not using a vast amount of emoticons, that was not a joke. I was told by 2 or 3 different instructors that if I did 30MPH in the test, I would fail. I was told to do as close to 32-33MPG.

Instructor must have been big into efficiency;)
"never mind speed, watch your fuel consumption":pac:

Eoin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Instructor must have been big into efficiency;)
"never mind speed, watch your fuel consumption":pac:

edited my post.

CHW

eoin wrote: »

No, despite not using a vast amount of emoticons, that was not a joke. I was told by 2 or 3 different instructors that if I did 30MPH in the test, I would fail. I was told to do as close to 32-33MPG. Accordingly, I did this in my test and passed.

I was told the same by my instructor (about 10 years ago), ignored him, going somewhere between 25 and 30 when in a 30mph zone in the test, but pushing towards 30, and failed for not making good progress.

He also told me that if I got the woman examiner, I was screwed, I WOULD fail, being a mid-twenties male. I also drove no differently in my second test, this time with a male instructor, and passed.

Stark

All you need is a full license and a car to be a driving instructor in this country (if you even need that...). I wouldn't take anything that a random instructor says as gospel.

Common sense would tell me that a tester can't mark you down for obeying the law.

CHW wrote:

He also told me that if I got the woman examiner, I was screwed, I WOULD fail, being a mid-twenties male. I also drove no differently in my second test, this time with a male instructor, and passed.

Sounds like you paid €40 or whatever the hourly rate is for the same advice you'd get for free from someone down the pub.

Eoin

Stark wrote: »

All you need is a full license and a car to be a driving instructor in this country (if you even need that...). I wouldn't take anything that a random instructor says as gospel.

Maybe so, but I'd pay more attention to someone who has been instructing people for many years, than what people on an internet forum say. Either way, I wasn't failed for exceeding the speed limit.

Stark

Unless it's someone with a good rep, then there's often feck all difference in the advice. I've heard some right bull being dished out by instructors over the years. I stuck rigidly to the speed limit for my test even on roads with ridiculously low limits with traffic up my ass and didn't pick up a single mark for progress.

Topper Harley

Stark wrote: »

All you need is a full license and a car to be a driving instructor in this country (if you even need that...)

In fairness, I think there's a bit more to it than that. Driving instuctors have to be approved and undergo a further driving test, an Instruction Ability Test and Garda vetting.

Stark wrote: »

I wouldn't take anything that a random instructor says as gospel.

Sounds like you paid €40 or whatever the hourly rate is for the same advice you'd get for free from someone down the pub.

It's not just one random instructor. Many people on here have been told that, including me, and at least two people I know were told something similar by approved instructors.

Stark

Topper Harley wrote: »

In fairness, I think there's a bit more to it than that. Driving instuctors have to be approved and undergo a further driving test, an Instruction Ability Test and Garda vetting.

This is only a recent thing though. A few years ago, the system was totally deregulated. I think even now, there's a certain amount of catch up going on.

Topper Harley wrote: »

It's not just one random instructor. Many people on here have been told that, including me, and at least two people I know were told something similar by approved instructors.

I've received a pile of flat out wrong and sometimes dangerous advice from instructors from very large driving schools. When in doubt, I would always look to the rules of the road and written traffic laws first, advice from random instructor second.

Out of many instructors I've had, I can think of only one from whom I'd take advice as golden, and one other from whom I'd take advice as 80% reliable. The latter told me to drive on parking lights instead of dips and he was still far far better than the rest.

Zube

Stark wrote: »

Common sense would tell me that a tester can't mark you down for obeying the law.

Ha ha! Common sense, good one!

My sister failed for not making sufficient progress because she stuck to the 30 mph limit. My instructor told me to ignore the letter of the limit and go with the traffic.

Mind you, that wasn't today or yesterday. Is there anyone here whose instructor told them not to break the limit, or they'd fail?

Stark

Zube wrote: »

Ha ha! Common sense, good one!

My sister failed for not making sufficient progress because she stuck to the 30 mph limit. My instructor told me to ignore the letter of the limit and go with the traffic.

Is that what she picked up the points for or what she thinks she picked up the points for? Specifically, was she marked down for "progress on the straight"? You can be marked down for being too slow accelerate to the speed limit as well.

Zube wrote: »

Mind you, that wasn't today or yesterday. Is there anyone here whose instructor told them not to break the limit, or they'd fail?

Yes I was told that by the good instructors, and that's what I did when I passed.

Btw, the limit these days isn't 30mph, it's 50km/hr, which equates to 31mph in old money so it is okay to be slightly above the 30mph line if your speedo reads in mph. I'm fairly certain however that doing 60km/hr in a 50km/hr will earn you a black mark for speeding.

jhegarty

Stark wrote: »

This is only a recent thing though. A few years ago, the system was totally deregulated. I think even now, there's a certain amount of catch up going on.



I've received a pile of flat out wrong and sometimes dangerous advice from instructors from very large driving schools. When in doubt, I would always look to the rules of the road and written traffic laws first, advice from random instructor second.

Out of many instructors I've had, I can think of only one from whom I'd take advice as golden, and one other from whom I'd take advice as 80% reliable. The latter told me to drive on parking lights instead of dips and he was still far far better than the rest.

No one could ever pass a driving test using only the rules of the road.

I like the other posters was told by the instructor to make sure I didn't drop below the speed limit. Keep about 3/4 kph above it, but never drop below.

I had failed a previous driving test on progress and passed the time I drove just over the limit the whole test.

Stark

jhegarty wrote: »

No one could ever pass a driving test using only the rules of the road.

Well it seems people are under the impression that you'll be tested on speeding. What other rules of the road should be broken in order to pass?

kingtut

Zube wrote: »

Is there anyone here whose instructor told them not to break the limit, or they'd fail?

Yes my instructor told me this. Part of his job is to teach the road rules and not encourage people to break them.

Stark wrote: »

Well it seems people are under the impression that you'll be tested on speeding. What other rules of the road should be broken in order to pass?

+1 to this. I'm amazed at what some people think.

jhegarty

Stark wrote: »

Well it seems people are under the impression that you'll be tested on speeding. What other rules of the road should be broken in order to pass?

Well lots of people fail on gears. That's not mentioned in the rules of the road. Either is making good progress.

I don't remember anything about a hill start or 3 point turn in it.

Stark

Well yes, you can't summarise the entire skill of driving in one little book. But what I'm asking is if people are under the impression that someone could fail a driving test because they followed the rules of the road.

jhegarty

Stark wrote: »

Well yes, you can't summarise the entire skill of driving in one little book. But what I'm asking is if people are under the impression that someone could fail a driving test because they followed the rules of the road.

Yes I am. If you drive at 40 kph in 50 kph zone you will fail your test. The rules of the road and law say that driving at 40 kph is 100% legal and correct.

Stark

You're arguing in reverse. I'm asking if you think you are required to break the law, not if you think it's enough to just follow the law and not worry about anything else. Whether someone fails for not using the gears correctly or not is fairly irrelevant.

Seth Brundle

Thoie wrote: »

Seriously, why are people arguing? If I get ticketed for it I get ticketed for it. The speed limit is 60, I was doing 63, I deserve whatever the law decides to do about it. If they want to make an example of me and hang me by my ankles at the crossroads I might whine, but pretty much anything else is up to the gardai.

My second question has been answered (Fines/tickets/men with guns/peasants with pitchforks) will turn up somewhere between 2 days to 6 weeks.

I'm sorry I even mentioned the speed of the bloody truck in the first question - it's irrelevant to what I was doing. My question was centering around the positioning of the cameras and whether I should be expecting a ticket, not whether I deserve it or not.

I think a bit of clarity is needed here.
Firstly most speedos over-read by default. With tyre wear, etc. this difference can increase. Therefore, in all probability, your reading of 63 is somewhere between 55 and 63 with the likleidood of it being under 60.
Secondly fixed cameras have a corresponding set of road markings. Manual calculations of a vehicle's speed using the two photos taken can be undertaken in a situation like this where two vehicles are passing it at the time to clarify which one (or both) were speeding.
As with most garda cameras, there would be a tolerance of possibly ~10% above the limit. That is not to say that you won't get done if under this tolerance though.
As for you getting a ticket, I would really doubt it.

Zube

Stark wrote: »

Specifically, was she marked down for "progress on the straight"?

No she was marked down for "not making sufficient progress on the straight", and that was the reason she was told she failed.

I also know one lad who was told by his examiner: "You pass your test, now you can go back to driving normally".

emilyj

My husband was a tester so if anyone needs any advice I'll try and oblige. From what he says a tester will not mark you for lack of progress if you stick to the speed limit. Anyone who failed their test for lack of progress was probably hesitant in other aspects of their driving. You also won't get marked for breaking the speed limit if you go about 55kmh in a 50 zone.

eringobragh

kbannon wrote: »

I think a bit of clarity is needed here.
Firstly most speedos over-read by default. With tyre wear, etc. this difference can increase. Therefore, in all probability, your reading of 63 is somewhere between 55 and 63 with the likleidood of it being under 60.
Secondly fixed cameras have a corresponding set of road markings. Manual calculations of a vehicle's speed using the two photos taken can be undertaken in a situation like this where two vehicles are passing it at the time to clarify which one (or both) were speeding.
As with most garda cameras, there would be a tolerance of possibly ~10% above the limit. That is not to say that you won't get done if under this tolerance though.
As for you getting a ticket, I would really doubt it.

Indeed the markings are for the old fixed type.

The new van have the Robot MultaRadar C and can monitor and issue tickets for speeding drivers in both lanes at the same time and doesn't have the same limitations that the GATSOMETER vans had. (The MultaRadar C works in the dark, rain, and is able to monitor more than 1 lane)

Our ROBOT series devices are easy to handle and guarantee indisputable allocation of the speeding driver. Triggering is performed fully automatically with simultaneous monitoring of several traffic lanes.

The old vans are limited to one lane