Taser use criticised - shocker

metman

Met police use Tasers against 26 teenagers
Justin Davenport, Crime Correspondent
27.02.09



POLICE in London are increasingly using Taser stun guns to deal with teenage crime.

New figures reveal that officers used the weapons against teenagers 26 times in the first eight months of last year. The huge rise coincides with a decision to issue Tasers to 400 Met officers to tackle disorder and violent situations. Officers say they are facing an increasing number of violent teenagers carrying knives and guns.

Amnesty International, however, said the figures were "startling" and that the guns should not be used on children except in extreme circumstances.

Territorial Support Group officers, who are charged with tackling disorder on the streets, were issued with Tasers in December 2007. This was the first time the weapons have been given to anyone other than specialist firearms officers. All three of the teenagers hit with the 50,000 volt guns in 2007 were shot by C019 firearms officers. Nearly all last year's incidents involved TSG officers. From January to August, the weapons were fired at teenagers 10 times and threatened or drawn a further 16 times. The youngest child shot was 15.

In May TSG officers used a Taser when called to a gang fight in south London. Some youths were carrying bottles and knives and several people had been stabbed. Officers used the stun gun to arrest a teenager who they believed had been carrying a knife. A Met spokeswoman said: "The subject would not comply with police requests so he was Tasered."

Police say Tasers give officers the option of controlling violent suspects at a distance rather than at close hand. Chief Supt Mick Johnson, the TSG operational commander, said: "Tasers are a very safe means of stopping someone offering extreme violence to officers."

Oliver Sprague, director of Amnesty UK's arms control programme, said: "Tasers are potentially lethal weapons. They should never be used against children except where police are faced with an immediate threat to life and absolutely no alternatives are available.

"The public has a right to know the circumstances in which police thought it appropriate to administer a 50,000 volt electric shock to a child."
Evening Standard
*************

Used against children.....they should have just said police were using their tasers to club babies :rolleyes:

Immediate threat to life? Suspect believed armed with a knife, post public disorder wherein several persons have been stabbed, refuses to comply with police? I'd say that's a reasonable and proportionate use of force.

CLADA

"The public has a right to know the circumstances in which police thought it appropriate to administer a 50,000 volt electric shock to a child."


My daughter was at a science exhibition last year and was subjected to 1,000,000 volts from a van de graaf generator, it made her hair stand up, the pictures are hilarious.

50,000 volts but little or no amperage :rolleyes:

On issue to 400 officers and 26 deployments in eight months, that sounds like restrained and regulated use to me.

OhNoYouDidn't

metman wrote: »

Immediate threat to life? Suspect believed armed with a knife, post public disorder wherein several persons have been stabbed, refuses to comply with police? I'd say that's a reasonable and proportionate use of force.

Which Amnesty are agreeing with you about. All they appear to be calling for is transparancy when tasers are used against minors.

TheNog

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Which Amnesty are agreeing with you about. All they appear to be calling for is transparancy when tasers are used against minors.

+1

I agree there should be complete transparency in the use of tasers. In doing so would protect officers who were correct in attaching a taser (:pac::D ) to a perp.

At least it would eliminate some evidence of abuse that has cropped up on youtube concerning the US cops where there was no threat to life or even threat to injury to anyone.

CLADA

Ireland and the UK have the strictest guidelines regarding the use of TASER and I'm sorry but concerns regarding its use on minors doesn't really interest me.
It is the preferable option to deal with someone actively involved in serious disorder or in possession of a bladed or blunt weapon whatever their age.

Because of the guidelines that exist here and in the UK the prospect of your sister getting tasered for arguing with a traffic cop are non existent unlike the good ole U S of A.

leeroybrown

CLADA wrote: »

My daughter was at a science exhibition last year and was subjected to 1,000,000 volts from a van de graaf generator, it made her hair stand up, the pictures are hilarious.

50,000 volts but little or no amperage :rolleyes:

While I know that you're commenting on the typical sensationalist nature of the 50,000V claim, your example is well wide of the mark. A Van de Graaf generator provides a simple science room example of a high electrostatic voltage that will give someone a small shock or make their hair stand up. A taser is a device deliberately designed to provide a modulated pulse of current that inflicts pain on the target over a period of time. There is no valid comparison between the two.

TheNog

Enough bickering please both of ye are hijacking the thread. Discuss the topic on hand rather than analysing each others words.

AlekSmart

Knees Jerking all over the shop here.

I must admit to being all Amnestied out in relation to the supposed awfulness of the Police response to Violent or POTENTIALLY violent Public Order issues.

The entire area of underage or Juvenile crime is not an easy one to tread carefully through.

Amnesty Inter,i`m reasonably sure,are quite content that the Taser wont be used on too many OAP`s simply due to the fact that they`will most likely be locked up inside their fortified flats or bungalows often in mortal terror of the howling mobs of feral "Youths" which society has,in it`s wisdom,rendered unarrestable,unchargeable and unpunishable for any and all crimes committed by them.

There is a very great danger now of this entire "Childrens Rights" driven agenda allowing and even facilitating the development of Socially Numb Super Criminals,each confident in the knowledge that bodies such as Amnesty Inter will always be there to "Protect" them against those horrible opressive State forces.

Just as with our financial problems,this recession may well force us all to review many of the "nice" little schemes and programmes which although sounding so good and positive,did little or nothing to instil any form of respect or recognition in wayward youths.

The current speculation regarding the age profiles of the Bank of Ireland €7 million raiders seems to point to some gang members at least being in their very early 20`s .

Perhaps society in general and Amnesty type orginizations in particular need to get out a bit more to look and listen when assessing the goodness of the greater body of "Children".

Watch that Jamie Bulger CCTV footage as the CHILD`s two abductors lead him off to his awful death then ask if Children are incapable of Premeditated Criminal Acts.

metman

Amnesty International and similar organisations have, at their core, a noble goal. However this oft gets hijacked, twisted and perverted by a multitude of anti-police, anti-system activists who'd happily watch Rome burn after lighting the touch paper. The rhetoric these types spout isn't worthy of a hearing in my view, as they offer no solution, to any issue. It seems such types are increasingly visiting this forum.

Dr_MaSoN

metman wrote: »

Amnesty International and similar organisations have, at their core, a noble goal. However this oft gets hijacked, twisted and perverted by a multitude of anti-police, anti-system activists who'd happily watch Rome burn after lighting the touch paper. The rhetoric these types spout isn't worthy of a hearing in my view, as they offer no solution, to any issue. It seems such types are increasingly visiting this forum.

+ 2

OhNoYouDidn't

metman wrote: »

Amnesty International and similar organisations have, at their core, a noble goal. However this oft gets hijacked, twisted and perverted by a multitude of anti-police, anti-system activists who'd happily watch Rome burn after lighting the touch paper. The rhetoric these types spout isn't worthy of a hearing in my view, as they offer no solution, to any issue. It seems such types are increasingly visiting this forum.

All because you were asked where the criticism you alledge actually is?

If this is the reaction AI get when they back the Met up, I can't wait to see the vitriol when they have the temerity to criticise.

eroo

metman wrote: »

From January to August, the weapons were fired at teenagers 10 times and threatened or drawn a further 16 times. The youngest child shot was 15.

So, they were really only used 10 times?:rolleyes:

metman

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

All because you were asked where the criticism you alledge actually is?

If this is the reaction AI get when they back the Met up, I can't wait to see the vitriol when they have the temerity to criticise.

Vitriol, isn't that a cough mixture?

As for backing the Met up.....I look forward to Amnesty turning out to the next incident necessitating taser use :rolleyes:

And I pointed out where the criticism was. Do you honestly believe the article was Amnesty's way of saying well done? If so can you buy me a pint because your glass is obviously always half full

deadwood

metman wrote: »

Hey, metman, how many times did you ask the photographer for "just one more for the photo album"?

"Taser use criticised - shocker":P

And Aleksmart - "knees jerking all over the shop" - this stuff writes itself!

TheNog

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

All because you were asked where the criticism you alledge actually is?

If this is the reaction AI get when they back the Met up, I can't wait to see the vitriol when they have the temerity to criticise.

metman wrote: »

Vitriol, isn't that a cough mixture?

As for backing the Met up.....I look forward to Amnesty turning out to the next incident necessitating taser use :rolleyes:

And I pointed out where the criticism was. Do you honestly believe the article was Amnesty's way of saying well done? If so can you buy me a pint because your glass is obviously always half full

Infractions for both you despite my earlier warning. Next time I will not be so lenient.

CLADA

Coincidentally

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0302/fitzgeralds.html

eroo

CLADA wrote: »

Coincidentally

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0302/fitzgeralds.html

Saw that on the news.. 4 years, backdated to April? I'm glad the State are appealing.