Most annoying thing about your current accountant

MrMatisse

Hey all,
As a nearly qualified bean counter im looking into setting up on my own, ive thought about moving into another area but sure the area most ripe for major reform is the one staring me in the face.

I want to do things differently and would be really interested in hearing the most annoying thing about your current accountant, what services you feel are a total rip off and services you wish they'd provide.

Any responses would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

PCPhoto

best area to become active in at the moment is liquidation and examinership of companies.

IMO

just my two cents

adrian.s

As somebody in the startup business side of things, there's a few things bothering me about how accountants run their practice.

First suggestion is to embrace technology. Know email and the web. Perhaps even try keeping a blog posting some high level information that could be useful to companies. I don't think sharing this info will do any harm to your business, no matter how confident people are they can do it themselves, when it comes to filing stuff with revenue, you always want somebody to make sure it's correct. And hey, you'll get the stuff done in a way that makes sense to you to review!

Factor into your costs some degree of being proactive. I always have to initiate conversations and push my accountant. I always feel its like extracting teeth trying to get any information from my current guy. Takes a week to turn around a few yes / no answers. Take time to phone your clients from time to time. If they push back, then fine. But I know I'd appreciate a call from time to time to see if everything was ok.

Present at conferences and events where you can not only present useful information, but also get customers. I know from personal experience I'm more likely to approach somebody for extra help if I saw them present and I liked what they had to say. In the startup world, there's always events being run and you should pop in there. All the events I attend are dominated by sales guys, marketing folks, PR people, legal etc.

Hope this helps you.

Adrian.

MrMatisse

Pretty much exactly the type of response i was hoping for, want to move a lot of it online, like the blog idea!.

PCPhoto

I agree with the Pro-active side of things - my accountant only seems to contact me when he wants a payment and is more concerned with getting money to the revenue instead of trying to help me properly create my accounts.

I've asked questions of my accountant - ie. entitlements to meals/clothes and I've been told I dont qualify but others working the same as me qualify..... maybe my accountant is lazy.

Just on the flipside ....do all accountants ask their clients to write down the basics (ie. Income expenditure and document what receipts are for) and then just sign off on the accounts (after reviewing it of course)

Think I might change my accountant !!!

dahamsta

I'm quite happy with my accountant, but I would prefer more details of what they do on my invoices. I hate getting invoices with just "preparing accounts" and a number. If I tried to bill my clients like that I wouldn't get any business, I at least have to provide a number of hours!

adam

CamperMan

losing paperwork..

antoinolachtnai

I agree with embracing the Internet. The other thing is to form a close relationship with one of the software vendors. Then, do the full service on that software, but with the client doing as much of the keying as possible. You or your staff then check what has been done, and make sure it is reasonably up-to-date, and make sure the various reports churn out at the appropriate interval.

I would also suggest getting the client to pdf all the incoming invoices and dockets. Then you could do the whole thing remotely.

The other thing is to use this approach in conjunction with other accountants (especially older acountants) rather than in competition with them. My accountant is actually trying to get out of the business, but he is being defeated in this because after 40 years, his business is now really beginning to pick up. He isn't interested in modernizing it and bring in new partners or any of that. If he could work with someone to keep his clients accounts tip-top and eventually take the whole thing over, I'm sure he'd like that. I'm sure there are loads of others like that.

Examinerships, liquidations, receiverships - you really need a fair bit of experience before going into this on your own. Otherwise you will end up bankrupt too - a receiver has to always act prudently in the best interests of the company, and if it turns out he can't show that he did, then he is in a lot of trouble.

At the end of the day, though, accounting as it is traditionally practiced is not a great business to be in. Blogging or the likes will bring more business in, but unless you change the operational model, you will not make an awful lot money and you will not be able to provide a very good service.

itsonlyme

When you employ an Accountant (s)he has two functios

1) Keep you out of jail and

2) To collect as much money off you for the Revenue Commissioners

for which (s)he extracts alot of money from you for the pleasure.

I am convinced that if you make alot of money they are jealous of you making it and accordingly give you a whopper of an invoice every year.

They charge far too much in general and Audit fees are a rip off.

itsonlyme

A tip for you all to save on accountancy fees,

retain the services of a reliable book keeper (get one who works for themselves) who will do your payroll, VAT, p35, p60, and all weekly paperwork (creditors and debtors) up to trial balance (depending on volume of paperwork probaly cost about 700 to 1000 per mth)

and get the accountant to sign of on your accounts and do your P&L.

Bet ya you will save alot of money.

I did it four years ago and I saved myself 7000 per year.

And am still saving it.

Fido loves 7up

Most annoying thing about your current accountant?

He doesnt ring me enough. I always have to chase him down. OP: if you're looking for ways to keep your future clients happy then give them a shout every couple of weeks.

flash harry

ADVISE clients proactively on how to avoid taxation - there is way too little of this e.g. the amount of people who are unaware of something as basic as their subsistence (ance?) allowances etc.....

Maybe offer a free "tax audit" to show where you could have saved them money, not only on the fee but by better advice.

I know the free audit thing is being done to death but you could have a preprepared confidentiality agreement and it mught take 10 to win one new customer but as a new business thats 10 very warm leads for you.....

antoinolachtnai

It's all about cost of doing things really. Giving individual customes advice on managing their tax liability takes a lot of time, and you need to get a lot of money for it. Also, an accountant is not necessarily a tax specialist, I wouldn't do that sort of work unless you are really geared for it.

flash harry

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It's all about cost of doing things really. Giving individual customes advice on managing their tax liability takes a lot of time, and you need to get a lot of money for it. Also, an accountant is not necessarily a tax specialist, I wouldn't do that sort of work unless you are really geared for it.

sorry your absolutely right re not all tax experts but I think it is fair to say a good accountant will know the most tax efficient ways for reporting your income, P&L etc but i take your point

DubTony

dahamsta wrote: »

I'm quite happy with my accountant, but I would prefer more details of what they do on my invoices. I hate getting invoices with just "preparing accounts" and a number. If I tried to bill my clients like that I wouldn't get any business, I at least have to provide a number of hours!

adam

Are you sure you'd want to go down this route at all?

When I mentioned this to my accountant he came back with this beauty. He was joking, but who's to say it won't happen some time?

"That would increase my costs as I'd have to track everything everyone did. It's a lot simpler and cheaper to put a standard price on each job.
But I'll do it if you want me to. How about I do it like your solicitor? We'll put codes on the photocopier and franking machine to ensure we bill the right people. The new computer system for the phones will track who we're calling and for whom, so we can bill you for those calls. And sure every time you come in I'll start the clock." And he smiled. "Oh, and would you like me to get into my car more often and call into your shop?" And smiled again.

I said, "You're doing a great job. We'll stick with your old system. The new one looks complicated. And don't be a smart-ass or I'll liquidate".
He said, "Sure what difference would that make. You don't f*cking pay me anyway, "

We get on real well.

dahamsta

I'm not looking for an hourly rate, simply making the comparison to my own business. I would however like something more detailed than "prepare accounts". There is a difference between preparing my accounts when I hand over a shoebox full of receipts, and preparing them when I hand over a set of lovely neat spreadsheets. I want to know what I'm paying for, and I want a discount if I've already done a lot of the work.

adam

celron

itsonlyme wrote: »

A tip for you all to save on accountancy fees,

retain the services of a reliable book keeper (get one who works for themselves) who will do your payroll, VAT, p35, p60, and all weekly paperwork (creditors and debtors) up to trial balance (depending on volume of paperwork probaly cost about 700 to 1000 per mth)

and get the accountant to sign of on your accounts and do your P&L.

Bet ya you will save alot of money.

I did it four years ago and I saved myself 7000 per year.

And am still saving it.

This is a very good idea as I've done this myself with 2 separate businesses and I've made a similar saving

PSullivan

"That would increase my costs as I'd have to track everything everyone did. It's a lot simpler and cheaper to put a standard price on each job.
But I'll do it if you want me to."

From scanning through the posts left on this topic, this one in particular stood out to me..
I have worked in both accountancy practice & industry.
My experience in practice & from speaking to peers in other practice, keeping track of hours each staff members who works on your accounts is exactly what is done. This is all entered into another Sage accounting package ("Sage time & fees") every week/fortnight to be used when making up your client bill. So the billing partner would in this case know exactly how many hours were spent on your case & what fee the relevant accountant/trainee was billed out at for every hour spent on it.

The bills I saw going out still read vague elements such as "accounts preparation" or "income tax work carried out" etc..
I presume this is to not give away who carried out the work & exactly how much time it took as they would imply how much each is billed out at per hour & may not look reasonable to the client..
I would encourage people to ask more about their accountants invoices. If they've nothing to hide why would they have a problem answering the question..?

I am trying to get into the area of book-keeping to become less reliant on needing to be a company employee & think giving out a rate per hour at the very least would allow the customer to keep a check on what they're getting for their money...certain jobs should only take a reasonable amount of time as far as I can see..

Kelter

Mine has an issue with dealing things electronically. It bugs the sh*t out of me. Promote yourself as an accountant that embrases the web, email, mint, ros, spreadsheets. Them pm me for business

delllat

some of them expect you to know things without them telling you

id like to work with a guy that is easy to talk to and can save me as much money as possible and show me every possible way to reduce tax costs without me having to read about something and suggest it to him

(i know thats what theyre all supposed to do but some of them dont )