Sopranos finale [spoilers]

Tusky

I FINALLY got around to watching the last 9 episodes of the Sopranos. Just watched 'Made in America'. Absolutely loved the ending. It immediately got me thinking. First I thought that it was supposed to represent the paranoia in Tonys life and how he could never relax. However, after doing a bit of internet reading, Ive come around to thinking that he actually does get shot.

These points are hard to argue with -

a few episodes back when he was with bobby on the lake, bobby was speculating that when you get shot, you see nothing and hear nothing. the final scene was through tony's eyes and the last thing he saw was meadow coming through the door. the sudden black was him getting shot by the guy who went into the bathroom. There wasnt even any music over the credits, it was silent.

&

Also - the guy that goes to the toilet in the scene is credited as 'guy in members only jacket'. IT was in the episode 'members only' that Tony was shot previously. Thats a pretty big hint.

I know I'm about 6 months late but....thoughts ?

Armin_Tamzarian

It's a while since I saw this episode but I'd love discuss it in detail.

I'm sure that the Meadow thing was supposed to signify something.
The 3(?) failed parking attempts and the fact that it never actually showed her on the inside of the restaurant.
3 failed attempts at killing Tony?

The guy who used the bathroom was an obvious 'tip of the hat' to Godfather.
I'm not sure how relevant it was.

I think there was something amiss with the bell on the restaurant door also.
Like it didn't ring on one of the times the door opened.

Most frustrating finale ever.
Although it did introduce me to one hell of an awesome song by 'Journey'.

Plese refresh my memory more to details of the episode, it's been a while.

Tusky

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

It's a while since I saw this episode but I'd love discuss it in detail.

I'm sure that the Meadow thing was supposed to signify something.
The 3(?) failed parking attempts and the fact that it never actually showed her on the inside of the restaurant.
3 failed attempts at killing Tony?

The guy who used the bathroom was an obvious 'tip of the hat' to Godfather.
I'm not sure how relevant it was.

I think there was something amiss with the bell on the restaurant door also.
Like it didn't ring on one of the times the door opened.

Most frustrating finale ever.
Although it did introduce me to one hell of an awesome song by 'Journey'.

Plese refresh my memory more to details of the episode, it's been a while.

Well the main story point was that Tony seemed a little happier. There is a scene in which he is sweeping leaves, and looking at the trees and sky, smiling to himself. He also seems to be getting on slightly better with AJ and goes to visit junior for the first time (I think) since he shot him.

Theres also a sit down to call of the feud between Tony and Carmine.

We also see Phil Leotardo get shot (in the back of the head...he doesnt see it coming...in the same way Tony doesnt maybe ?). I suppose if you think about it, the whole series is shown through the eyes of Tony, from the time he becomes boss to the time that he (possibly) is killed. Its fitting that the screen goes black. We see what he sees ?

However, it could also be argued that Meadows three misparks were simply intended to build up tensions....as were the shots of everyone coming into the diner. To give us a taste of the unease and paranoia of mafia life.

Heres a better plot summary -

In the aftermath of the mob war that left several of his crew dead or injured, Tony wakes up in the safe house where he and his surviving associates have taken up residence. Tony meets with FBI Agent Dwight Harris (Matt Servitto) to exchange information. However, Harris refuses to provide Tony with Phil Leotardo's (Frank Vincent) location. Tony visits his family at the separate safe house where they are now living.

The FBI closely monitors Bobby Baccalieri's funeral, which Tony and his crew attend. Members of Tony's crew bring him their payments but the takings are disappointing, because the war is affecting everyone's business. Phil talks to Butch DeConcini (Gregory Antonacci) and expresses anger over Butch's failure to kill Tony.

A sit-down between the warring crime families is arranged. Tony and Paulie Gualtieri (Tony Sirico) meet with Butch, Albie Cianflone (John "Cha Cha" Ciarcia), and Little Carmine (Ray Abruzzo) of the Lupertazzi family, and they negotiate a truce. Butch does not provide Tony with Phil's location, however, but tells him, "You do what you gotta do." Agent Harris calls Tony and reveals that Phil has been using pay phones in Oyster Bay, Long Island. Tony's crew surveils gas stations with payphones in the area, but they are unable to locate Phil.

With the truce agreed, Tony returns to his North Caldwell home and life begins to return to normal for Tony, his family, and his crew. The exception is A.J., who, after watching his car explode in an accident, decides to join the U.S. Army. Tony and Carmela discuss this turn of events with A.J.'s therapist and Tony also talks about his own life and childhood. Tony and Carmela distract A.J. from his military ambitions by getting him involved in producing a movie with Little Carmine's production company, and supplying him with a new car. Meadow and Patrick Parisi (Daniel Sauli) plan their wedding.

Eventually Benny Fazio (Max Casella) and Walden Belfiore (Frank John Hughes) encounter Phil at a Raceway gas station; as Phil is talking to his wife, Walden murders him by shooting him point blank in the head, then shot again in the chest. Furthermore, Leotardo's wife rushes to Phil's side in a panic, leaving their grandchildren in the van. Unattended and still idling, the SUV idles forward and a wheel rolls over and crushes Phil's skull in front of several witnesses, leading one witness to vomit. FBI Agent Ron Goddard (Michael Kelly) notifies Agent Harris of Leotardo's death, causing Harris to exclaim, "Damn! We're gonna win this thing!"
Tony's lawyer, Neil Mink (David Margulies), informs Tony that someone is testifying to a grand jury and that Tony is likely to be indicted. Tony believes it to be Carlo Gervasi (Arthur Nascarella). Tony visits his uncle Corrado "Junior" Soprano (Dominic Chianese) at the state mental hospital. Because of his dementia, Junior barely recognizes Tony and becomes confused when Tony tries to remind him of his involvement in "this thing of ours," whereupon Tony leaves with a tear in his eye.

Tony then meets his family for dinner at a restaurant, arriving first. Carmela arrives second and Tony verifies that Carlo is going to testify against him and the DiMeo Family. A.J. then arrives and the three Sopranos talk for a while about A.J.'s new job. A man, who has been intermittently staring at Tony as he sits there, gets up from his bar and glances at Tony as he heads to and enters the bathroom. As Meadow enters the restaurant (after several attempts to parallel park), Tony looks up and the screen abruptly cuts to black and silence. After ten seconds, the credits roll silently.[1]

Armin_Tamzarian

Yeah, it seemed to be like that alright.
The 'unease and paranoia' of mafia life I mean.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into it.
It just seemed that there was a hell of alot crammed into the diner scene at the end.
The sort of stuff that you'd only pick up on if you watched it over and over again.

Perhaps the Meadow scene was just there to build up tension but it seemed very pointed.

Loved Phil Leotardo BTW, almost as much as Paulie...

Tusky

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Yeah, it seemed to be like that alright.
The 'unease and paranoia' of mafia life I mean.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into it.
It just seemed that there was a hell of alot crammed into the diner scene at the end.
The sort of stuff that you'd only pick up on if you watched it over and over again.

Perhaps the Meadow scene was just there to build up tension but it seemed very pointed.

Loved Phil Leotardo BTW, almost as much as Paulie...

I could be reading too much into this but...look at the photo of the tiger (ginger cat...) on the wall at 0.13 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnT7nYbCSvM

Earlier in the episode, they bring in a stray ginger cat who spends all his time staring at the picture of Christopher...could that be a hint ?

GAAman

When it went black i was reminded of him saying "when your shot/killed it just goes black" etc though i thought it was tony who said that its been awhile since i watched it so i had thought it meant someone finally put a sunroof in tony's head

But having said that this link.......well click it yourself and read into it what you will

i think

The fact that the door is left open for a movie says alot (unless they do a JR and it turns out carmela was just dreaming and finds tony in the shower washin himself ) about what actually happened in that last scene

Guvnor

I was and possibly still am a big sopranos fan but the final episodes were sh1te of the highest order! Start of season 6 was good but that was it.

I did not read all the above but Tony all of a sudden has a massive urge to gamble like a lunatic yet for 5 series he was all into the mantra of his father 'never, ever gamble Tony'.

It was rushed, poorly written and imo the ending was a load of pants and done purely to keep their options open for a film in the future.

Guvnor

It highlights a case in point that if one was paranoid and a target so to speak you always sit in the back corner of the diner with a clear view of everything and where no one can surprise you from behind!:D

That link about chase and movie is a case in point - no movie unless 'we get a boatload of cash' then we'll pen it over the weekend and ram it down the fans throats! They do not say no movie which is the ending all over again things are left hanging!

GAAman

Ha i forgot to say, i now bleedin HATE that journey song now cos of the final ep :mad::)

Armin_Tamzarian

Guvnor wrote: »

I was and possibly still am a big sopranos fan but the final episodes were sh1te of the highest order! Start of season 6 was good but that was it.

I did not read all the above but Tony all of a sudden has a massive urge to gamble like a lunatic yet for 5 series he was all into the mantra of his father 'never, ever gamble Tony'.

It was rushed, poorly written and imo the ending was a load of pants and done purely to keep their options open for a film in the future.

That's the problem, I think they were sort of keeping their options open.
Shame they killed off so many quality characters though.

latenia

Tusky wrote: »

I could be reading too much into this but...look at the photo of the tiger (ginger cat...) on the wall at 0.13 seconds in.

Earlier in the episode, they bring in a stray ginger cat who spends all his time staring at the picture of Christopher...could that be a hint ?

I read elsewhere that the picture of Chris contains a bug...

SaintHubbins

I can't understand all the speculation about the ending. Why does it have to mean something? As far as I am concerned we watched Tony's life for a few years and then it stopped - it's like they closed the curtain's and we can't see in the window anymore. Their life goes on and so does ours. Also, I love Don't Stop Believin' but Cartman was singing it years ago in South Park. Give him some credit!

Armin_Tamzarian

SaintHubbins wrote: »

I can't understand all the speculation about the ending. Why does it have to mean something? As far as I am concerned we watched Tony's life for a few years and then it stopped - it's like they closed the curtain's and we can't see in the window anymore. Their life goes on and so does ours. Also, I love Don't Stop Believin' but Cartman was singing it years ago in South Park. Give him some credit!

The Sopranos is a very intelligently written show.
There are lot of subtlties in it that you don't get in alot of TV shows.
Particularly in relation to the moods, personalitys of the main characters.
It's easy to get carried away and read too much into these things
but IMO there were lots of things put into that finale to get fans thinking.

Which Southpark ep did Cartman sing that song in?

I also like the version in Family Guy...

Guvnor

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

That's the problem, I think they were sort of keeping their options open.
Sham they killed off so many quality characters though.

I agree with you here mate. However there is still enough of the main characters left to make it worthwhile.

I do think I read somewhere that those final 9 episodes were never meant to happen and only did so because of the amount of money they were offered. This would make sense imo as I did read they wanted to cap it at 75 episodes etcetera but now they have 75+9.

It's just a shame the butchered what was a very good show - season 6 started great as I said but after that it went downhill. Brokeback sopranos was a phrase commonly used regarding Vito!:D

Armin_Tamzarian

Guvnor wrote: »

I agree with you here mate. However there is still enough of the main characters left to make it worthwhile.

I do think I read somewhere that those final 9 episodes were never meant to happen and only did so because of the amount of money they were offered. This would make sense imo as I did read they wanted to cap it at 75 episodes etcetera but now they have 75+9.

It's just a shame the butchered what was a very good show - season 6 started great as I said but after that it went downhill. Brokeback sopranos was a phrase commonly used regarding Vito!:D

Brokeback Vito, lol.
I think the best 2 characters in the show were Chris and Paulie.
'Pine Barrens' is my favourite episode.

Phil Leotardo was also class.

K4t

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

I'm sure that the Meadow thing was supposed to signify something.
The 3(?) failed parking attempts and the fact that it never actually showed her on the inside of the restaurant.
3 failed attempts at killing Tony?

I don't think so. Meadow was a terrible driver. When Janice was giving her lessons she was terrible and she crashed Jackie Jnr's car too. When she got her license she was saying how the instructor was an idiot too. (Season 3 I think).

I think OP is getting somewhere with the Bobby conversation on the lake though.

K4t

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Brokeback Vito, lol.
I think the best 2 characters in the show were Chris and Paulie.
'Pine Barrens' is my favourite episode.

Phil Leotardo was also class.

I agree, Ralphie too. And honourable mention for Ritchie.

So many great characters! Pine barrens is hilarious. '17 czechoslovakians' 'He was an interior designer'

K4t

I know I'm hoaring a bit now but watching the scene again just there has made me think.

We have followed Tony and the famil from day one and as we know one of the great things about the Sopranos is that no matter what eveil Tony does or who he muders, we will always have that affection for him. Watching the scene again and hearing Aj say that about 'remembering the good times', I don't want Tony to die! I actually like watching them there as a family. People say they wanted to see Tony get his brains blown out but I want him to survive, not for more episodes, but because I like the guy? (please no gay jokes).

Guvnor

Pine Barrens was widely regarded as one of, if not the best episode of the whole show.

It was one of the funniest things I've ever seen!:)

I did like the 1st episode of season 5 where the waiter bought it in the parking lot.

With all this talk I might have to start at the start and watch it again and to think I only came on to this forum to moan about dragon's den!:D

Armin_Tamzarian

K4t wrote: »

I don't think so. Meadow was a terrible driver. When Janice was giving her lessons she was terrible and she crashed Jackie Jnr's car too. When she got her license she was saying how the instructor was an idiot too. (Season 3 I think).

I think OP is getting somewhere with the Bobby conversation on the lake though.

But do you not think it strange to put in a scene of reasonable duration, showing nothing but Meadow's shoddy parking skills.
Unless, as another posters said, it was a device to build tension.

Armin_Tamzarian

Guvnor wrote: »

Pine Barrens was widely regarded as one of, if not the best episode of the whole show.

It was one of the funniest things I've ever seen!:)

This episode was directed by Steve Buscemi.
The entire thing was outstanding from start to finish.
It would be hard to pick the funniest moment from the episode but
a few contenders would be...

1. Mmmm Mustard sachets...

2. Paulie's Hair.

3. Carpet Shoes.

4. The Czecheslovakian Interior Decorator. (his place was a mess).

Guvnor

Has to be #4 for me!

Guvnor

BTW - on the ending lads - all this about seeing it all through Tony's eyes and the bit on the lake with Bobby and Meadow's bad driving etcetera it is all a red herring.

The bottom line imo was they fcuked up the ending and it was inconclusive for a good reason - generate a lot of speculation.

The issue is that as viewers we watched 75 hours of Soprano's and one could argue the fans deserved a better conclusion and definitely not one that was so ambiguous.

When this aired for the first time - most people thought there was an issue with the tv, me included, lot of tv's were hit that night!:)

I suppose the word I am looking for is cheated, I felt cheated to get such a lame ending.

There will be a movie or a feature length for the TV in the future.

All options are left open - if they made a movie you would go and see it? I would despite being hacked off with the show and the producers know this.

So many awful bits in the final, final episdode - like they had to show you as much of the show's characters as possible.

I could go on but work beckons!:)

DazMarz

Jesus, yeah, I know what you mean about the TV issue at the ending. I'm possibly the biggest Sopranos fan out there. I was raptly watching every second of the finale, when bang... black. I actually screamed 'NOOOO' and started cursing the TV and RTE, thinking it was technical difficulties!!!!:o How embarrassed was I when I found out that was how it was supposed to happen...

But yeah, 'Pine Barrens' is easily the best episode out there. I have the script to it at home, and just reading a few lines of it has me chuckling. It's subtle, but I find the funniest bit is when Paulie and Chris are running for the abandoned truck, Chris gets there first and is opening the door, when Paulie comes charging in and pushes him out of the way like a petulant child... So funny.

Armin_Tamzarian

Was there abit in 'Pine Barrens' near the beginning when Chris and Paulie are getting petrol?

Paulie is on a high and waves over and says hi to another customer who
just looks nervous and scurries off leaving Paulie looking all upset?

Is this right? I seem to remember thinking is was funny.

Guvnor

I remember them getting petrol and Chris bitching about food.

http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/games/ - true fans will play all 439 of the turnpike trivia game - anything over 300 is good imo as it's been a while!

Props to anyone who does all 439!:D

Random

I only got into Sopranos and watched it from start to finish last summer. I loved the show. I loved the build up. I loved the build up to this grand finale.

I felt seriously let down by the episode. It didn't give me any closure and I felt it also didn't really give you anywhere to let your mind drift to proper.

I'm hoping a film is the reason but I've never really considered it until I read it in this thread.

All in all I was very disappointed by the whole way the episode finished.

Armin_Tamzarian

Guvnor wrote: »

I remember them getting petrol and Chris bitching about food.

http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/games/ - true fans will play all 439 of the turnpike trivia game - anything over 300 is good imo as it's been a while!

Props to anyone who does all 439!:D

No it was more like Paulie wavin over and sayin 'how you doin", all cheerful like.
But the guy looked nervous and wasn't impressed, hurting Paulie's feelings.

Perhaps I'm hallucinating yet again.

Idu

Long read this but pretty thorough on the ending:

http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/