Life is a mess...

LegacyUser · 28-02-2009 8:53am #1

Im 25 and with my OH 4 years we bought a house 2 years ago and have 2 dogs. Im not inlove with him anymore and Ive decided I want to separate now rather then longer down the line. We cant sell the house as its in negative equity so he wants to live here with the dogs. Now there is no bad blood if anything he is being overly nice about everything, but I feel like im being left with nothing. My Family have stopped speaking to me as they said I should just work on the relationship. I feel like I have no support from any1. I've nowhere to live so im still in the house for now. Should i walk away from everything?? If i stay with him its going to be for the wrong reasons and thats not fair to him. Any outside advice welcomed....

MagicMarker · 28-02-2009 10:32am

Eh, you still own half the house even if you move out.

Get out while you can, rent a room somewhere and enjoy your youth. Tell your family to mind their own business.

LegacyUser · 28-02-2009 10:41am

Yes but do i just leave him pay the mortgage if my name is still on it? He is going to go about buying me out but would he have to give me money is the house is worth less. My parents gave me 10K as a present when we moved in so if im going id like that back.

petethebrick · 28-02-2009 10:43am

Yeah, If your mind is made up then you should move out sooner rather than later if you can afford to rent a place. Stay with a friend short term if necessary
What's the story with your relationship with your family?

- most families would rally round to offer support in the event of a difficult situation like a relationship break up.
Anyway, I think you're doing the right thing, I'm sure things will work out for you - good luck

fifomania · 28-02-2009 11:10am

It sounds like you've your mind more or less made up and that you should do what you feel and leave. Can't believe you've such an unsupportive family!? It's doing neither of you any good to carry on, especially if you feel there's no future in it. You probably feel a bit lonely or out there at the minute but things will hopefully work out for the best. Just do what you want and never mind what anyone else thinks

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 11:37am

plenty of people split up, dont be worried. you need to come to a fair settlement. if he wants to live in the house thats fine. you need to consider yourself both landlords and then you are renting it out to your other half.

the mortgage still needs to be paid equally until such times as you wish or are able to sell your house. unless you both come to some other arrangement, id recommend that you either involve a soliciotr to witness whatever agreement you make or get parties on both sides including yourself to witness your agreement. better to be safe than sorry down the line. if you have a signed or witnesed agreement its worth a hell of a lot more than a verbal agreement

The Corinthian · 28-02-2009 11:40am

Unregistered wrote: »

My Family have stopped speaking to me as they said I should just work on the relationship.

Have you worked on the relationship?

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 11:59am

The Corinthian wrote: »

Have you worked on the relationship?

why miss out the first part were 'my family have stopped speaking to me as they said.......

One would presume if it could be worked at there would be no need to be here, just a guess

Pub07 · 28-02-2009 12:05pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Have you worked on the relationship?

What is there to work on, she says she's not in love with him anymore.

K_P · 28-02-2009 12:29pm

Unregistered wrote: »

Yes but do i just leave him pay the mortgage if my name is still on it? He is going to go about buying me out but would he have to give me money is the house is worth less. My parents gave me 10K as a present when we moved in so if im going id like that back.

The house isn't worthless! You might be in negative equity, but it's still probably worth quite a bit. You need to get the house valued as soon as possible and have him pay you half the value.

The Corinthian · 28-02-2009 1:09pm

Dakeyras wrote: »

why miss out the first part were 'my family have stopped speaking to me as they said.......

Because I wasn't asking about her family.

Pub07 wrote: »

What is there to work on, she says she's not in love with him anymore.

So people should not work on making their relationships work?

Don't get me wrong - she may have tried and failed and her family are simply being unreasonable - which is why I'm asking the question.

However, a lot of people just give up at the first hurdle, without any attempt at solving the issues in a relationship, which is fine if you're just dating, but messy if your lives are intertwined, as they are in this case.

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 1:15pm

don't get me wrong, obviously making families work is or should be the aim, but it hasnt happened.

clones1980 · 28-02-2009 1:22pm

I def wouldnt just walk out on half of whats rightlfully yours.

WOuld you consider renting a room in the house to someone to cover your share of the mortgage, that way ur still paying your share?

OR maybe you both could have the house leased out through an agency untill you are in a position to sell?

its just a thought.

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 1:23pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

However, a lot of people just give up at the first hurdle, without any attempt at solving the issues in a relationship,

as much as i don't want to agree with you, i agree with you

don't tell anyone btw. i just slipped and fell and agreeded, i didnt mean it

burberry · 28-02-2009 1:25pm

just priced flights to portugal with both aerlingus and ryanair same days and times ryanair180 cheaper, aerlingus complete rip off.

burberry · 28-02-2009 1:26pm

sorry post in wrong place

jimmycrackcorm · 28-02-2009 1:39pm

Unregistered wrote: »

Yes but do i just leave him pay the mortgage if my name is still on it? He is going to go about buying me out but would he have to give me money is the house is worth less. My parents gave me 10K as a present when we moved in so if im going id like that back.

It's more like you owe him money instead. Via 's the price to wall away.

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 1:51pm

you need a solicitor. we dont sorta decide what things are worth. retain a solicitor, he can if he wants. but look after yourself and your children, if he was a decent father you wouldnt need to. but such is life

The Corinthian · 28-02-2009 2:13pm

Dakeyras wrote: »

you need a solicitor. we dont sorta decide what things are worth. retain a solicitor, he can if he wants.

Indeed. If she wants to walk away from the house the best she can realistically hope for is that she can sign over her half, including the mortgage, and deal with any other debts (such as to her parents) herself. Of that 10k gift, it was to both of them, so even if he does pay any of it back, he is realistically only obliged to pay 5k.

If she simply stops paying the mortgage he can sue her. If she refuses to sell her part of the house then it depends upon the written agreement, if any, that they have.

Legally he can buy her out of half of the value of the house, which being in negative equity, means that she would still have a debt to the bank after this is done (assuming a bank is even willing to take on this as a separate debt). If it went to court, all other things being equal, this is what would happen. Additionally, there is the danger that a judge could order that the house be put on the market, so as to resolve the issue, and this would leave them both with a nasty debt.

If relations are cordial, then he may be willing to just her signing over her half (and take the hit on the loss in value) to avoid the cost and acrimony of a legal case. If not, it might well get messy.

but look after yourself and your children, if he was a decent father you wouldnt need to. but such is life

No children have been mentioned here.

The Corinthian · 28-02-2009 2:20pm

Actually, another option is that the OP moves out, retains ownership and continues to pay the mortgage and her soon-to-be ex pays 'rent'. Depending upon her mortgage and what is reasonable (market rate) rent, either one of them could end up paying an extra two hundred or so.

Of course, in his position, if rent turns out to cost more than half the mortgage, I'd probably refuse such an offer.

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 2:21pm

i think we are starting into an argument that we both agree on, we just have different stances on. if i may presume that you are a father and have your rights trampled over. that's the way the law goes. at least thats what im getting, correct me if im wrong

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 2:36pm

now back to my original point. you both are responsible for the mortgage if both names were signed. hence you must both pay, now if onw of you wish to stay in the house then they are effectively renting the house of (you) not each other, an entity which is both you. so whoever is staying in the house pays market rent and if i was being fair that would come off the money of the person who is staying in the house.

doesnt like it? well then say no one will live there and you'll rent it out. thats within your rights. let it be pure investment property because thats almost what it is now

The Corinthian · 28-02-2009 2:36pm

Dakeyras wrote: »

i think we are starting into an argument that we both agree on, we just have different stances on. if i may presume that you are a father and have your rights trampled over. that's the way the law goes. at least thats what im getting, correct me if im wrong

Father? Have I missed something? Have children been mentioned in this thread at all (apart from yourself)?

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 2:40pm

no seems i said it. so shall we ignore it now ive said it?

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 2:43pm

oh by the way when did i bring children into it apart from asking if you are a father?

The Corinthian · 28-02-2009 2:43pm

Dakeyras wrote: »

no seems i said it. so shall we ignore it now ive said it?

Sorry I don't follow. You want to discuss his rights as a father or the good of her children even though she has none (as far as we know)? Why?

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 2:45pm

id like you to answer my questions and then i shall answer yours

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 2:48pm

dum di dum

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 2:50pm

ah well, some ppl have their own things. weird as they are

The Corinthian · 28-02-2009 2:56pm

Dakeyras wrote: »

oh by the way when did i bring children into it apart from asking if you are a father?

What has this got to do with the thread?

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 2:58pm

lol, thats what you asked

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 2:59pm

and when are you going to answer the questions? you dont have to. you can just go

The Corinthian · 28-02-2009 3:11pm

OK, I assume this is all a huge crossing of wires - you mentioned her children's interests and I pointed out that she has none (presumably) and after that this thread went a bit pear shaped. I think I get what you were saying now.

Were you bringing up a hypothetical argument that if one is a father, let law is an ass, but that's life, which is a poor example as a house is a far less complex issue to contend with and is ultimately a business agreement between the two of them, something that is not, legally, the case with children.

The rental idea may be acceptable, but can also be rejected - he's under no obligation to accept such a deal. This is why, especially in divorces, family homes are sometimes ordered onto the market, because neither party is obliged to agree to any deal.

Of course, if that happens, they'll both lose.

dny123456 · 28-02-2009 3:11pm

To the OP, if your partner is willing to just let you walk away from (and you are sure you want to), then you probably should. If you're in negative equity there is no chance you'll be getting your parents 10,000 back. You'll be lucky to get out of it, without having to pay your ex. For example, if you have a mortgage of 300 and the house is valued at 250, you'd have to pay him 25k to walk away? He's letting you off lightly by letting you walk for free.

Dakeyras · 28-02-2009 3:22pm

lol, im not laughing but yes i said before it was a wire crossing. I was agreeing with you i brought the issue of children into this when the op didnt have or bring that issue to the fore.

my point in general is that the op and her estranged partner now have to consider themselves investors even if one of them decide to 'rent' the house. there are a few tak implications but the basic premise is that they own a house that they are renting out, they just happening to be renting it out to one of themselves.

again i apologise for going off

The Corinthian wrote: »

OK, I assume this is all a huge crossing of wires - you mentioned her children's interests and I pointed out that she has none (presumably) and after that this thread went a bit pear shaped. I think I get what you were saying now.

Were you bringing up a hypothetical argument that if one is a father, let law is an ass, but that's life, which is a poor example as a house is a far less complex issue to contend with and is ultimately a business agreement between the two of them, something that is not, legally, the case with children.

The rental idea may be acceptable, but can also be rejected - he's under no obligation to accept such a deal. This is why, especially in divorces, family homes are sometimes ordered onto the market, because neither party is obliged to agree to any deal.

Of course, if that happens, they'll both lose.

iguana · 28-02-2009 3:26pm

OP, you need to seek legal advice on this. I don't know the exact financial situation, but if the mortgage amount exceeds the current value of the house you owe your ex money if he is to take on the full mortgage. And the longer it takes you to sort this out the more your house will drop in value and the more you will owe your ex. Your €10k is very much gone.

It is also likely that the mortgage company will not agree to take your name off the mortgage at all. Which means you will continue to owe mortgage payments. Are you co-owners or joint owners of the house? If you are co-owners you are liable for your share and your ex for his. If you are joint owners you are equally or solely (the bank doesn't care which as long as it gets it's money) liable for the debt. This means that if your ex disappeared owing money you could be held liable for the entire amount.

If your relationship is definitely over you need to get this sorted as soon as possible. And get some professional advice. If the house is in significant negative equity it is probable that you won't be able to walk away from this debt free, but the sooner you tackle this properly the better you can deal with it.

It's not fully applicable, because it is based in the UK but similar laws apply so this article in today's Guardian is worth a read.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/feb/28/divorce-mortgages-shared-property-assets

Silverfish · 28-02-2009 3:26pm

Dakeyras, you can take a week off to read the charter of this forum, and figure out the rules.

King of Kings · 28-02-2009 3:58pm

Unregistered wrote: »

Yes but do i just leave him pay the mortgage if my name is still on it? He is going to go about buying me out but would he have to give me money is the house is worth less. My parents gave me 10K as a present when we moved in so if im going id like that back.

K_P wrote: »

The house isn't worthless! You might be in negative equity, but it's still probably worth quite a bit. You need to get the house valued as soon as possible and have him pay you half the value.

K_P do you have a clue? Really? why post stupid nonsense here?
Any value currently held by the house is actually "owned" by the bank who have a lien on the property.
That where the whole scenario of "**** we're in negative equity" comes from.

OP - Your 10k is lost in the loss in value on the house. It's gone.
Unless the property raises in value in the meantime.
if he buys you out technically you owe him (or the bank ) money.
However he may agree to take this debt on board if you sign over your share to him. But you're not going to get anything out of the sale.

yeah you're prob left with nothing except a fresh start and a clean slate.
which to me is worth more than all the cash , dogs and 10k gifts in the world.

Life is a mess...

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