When Britain starts printing money should we close our borders to them?

darkman2

I think so. Start printing money - next stop Harare, Zimbabwe.


Zimbabwe might not have much in common with the UK now but it will do if the UK starts printing money. I think we should close the border to the North now and if the UK carries out what it plans we should close borders to them. We will have to anyway. There is no way we could tolerate printing money in a land bordering country. We are in the Euro zone but hyper inflation could see the UK collapse...along with our export market which is dead already to the UK.

I find the risk unacceptable - and I know other EU countries inc Germany will make their displeasure known if the UK starts printing.

We thought we were in a bad way but at least we won't suffer the indignity of printing money and we need not suffer the cost to us either.

Biggins

How says they are going to take this route??? Links, source? Further info?

What are ye on about - where did you pull this chestnut from!

darkman2

Biggins wrote: »

How says they are going to take this route??? Links, source? Further info?

What are ye on about - where did you pull this chestnut from!

They are about to start printing - read the newspapers (UK) recently!? They call it "quantitive easing" - i.e printing money. Their currency is already so weak that this seems suicidal but they are about to undertake this exercise. I don't think we should be supporting it by maintaining free trade.

Biggins

Which papers?

I think this is a link you might want: http://financialadvice.co.uk/news/12/ukeconomy/9784/Quantitative-easing-or-further-base-rate-reductions.html
Search results: http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Financial||Economic+Crisis/Quantitative+Easing
IF considered to be brought in - let them dig their own grave if thats what they want!

Gummy Panda

I don't think the UK will ever been as bad as Zimbabwe.

Sure aren't Zimbabwe going for the Guinness book of records on inflation

Dotsie~tmp

Many countries devalue their currency during a recession to stimulate manufacturing and inject liquidity including us when we had the punt. Its unfair on us atm but thats life.

darkman2

Mervyn King also launched a thinly veiled attack on the Government's high levels of public debt ahead of the credit crunch and revealed that the Bank of England is poised to embark on quantitative easing. His comments will raise fears that the UK banking sector and wider economy faces a long and painful road to recovery and that further banking bailouts may be required.

Giving evidence before MPs on the House of Commons' Treasury Select Committee, Mr King said it was "impossible to say" how much capital may be required to prop up the fragile UK banking sector, as it was dependent on the state of the global economy. "How much capital banks will need in the end is impossible to tell," Mr King added.

Mr King said it could take "many months" to identify the scale of the toxic assets held by banks and that the Government and the regulator were unlikely to reach a definite conclusion because "it was a situation that was constantly moving". He added it was crucial to "find out what is really on the balance sheets of our major banks".

The Governor told MPs that UK plc's debt levels before the credit crunch limited the scale of the Government's financial stimulus package. Mr King said: "I do think public debt matters. We get to this crisis with levels of borrowing that were too high and that made it difficult."

Mr King told the MPs that the Bank expected to start quantitative easing, the so-called printing-money option, "in the next few months" when it would start to buy up assets to boost the money supply.

But he warned: "We are not going to allow a great inflationary surge. The problem at present is not that the amount of money in the economy is growing too rapidly, threatening an inflationary surge, it's that the amount of money in the economy is growing too slowly."

From the Independent today! Printing money is suicidal. Rampant inflation is going to follow. How bad it will get we don't know but the currency will be weakened so much that it endangers us - we would be at the coal face....like SA/Zimbabwe. The rest of the EU will sit back and laugh - for the North and us it could be very serious.

Biggins

Its a fine line they have to walk IF that happens/comes into effect.
It can either slowly work for them or come crashing down around their ears!
Meanwhile others will understandably stand back and watch...

darkman2

Biggins wrote: »

Its a fine line they have to walk IF that happens/comes into effect.
It can either slowly work for them or come crashing down around their ears!
Meanwhile others will understandably stand back and watch...

Yeah but can we (with a land border) sit back and watch? I agree it may not be serious - but inflation for them will result. How serious that will be remains to be seen.

Biggins

darkman2 wrote: »

Yeah but can we (with a land border) sit back and watch? I agree it may not be serious - but inflation for them will result.

Physical borders won't make any difference to be honest. The BIG money will transfer over wire and other forms of commercial communication.
What will seep physical across our actual border (in paper cash) IF this happens, will only be a tip of a much larger iceberg in comparison to that which will effect all European trading nations and beyond, more so.

Closing borders will do absolutely nothing except piss them off from a political stand point. Nothing more.
Won't happen (closing borders), not even remotely possible at all.

darkman2

Biggins wrote: »

Physical borders won't make any difference to be honest. The BIG money will transfer over wire and other forms of commercial communication.
What will seep physical across our actual border (in paper cash) IF this happens, will only be a tip of a much larger iceberg in comparison to that which will effect all European trading nations and beyond, more so.

Imagine the UK starts printing money - inflation rises - they still don't have enough money - they print more and buy up loads of assets to support it - the assets fall in price as more money is printed........it's a path to disaster. The UK is already more heavily indebted then Ireland. We would have to close the borders because of hyper inflation. The EU would support us of course.

Biggins

darkman2 wrote: »

Imagine the UK starts printing money - inflation rises - they still don't have enough money - they print more and buy up loads of assets to support it - the assets fall in price as more money is printed........it's a path to disaster. The UK is already more heavily indebted then Ireland. We would have to close the borders because of hyper inflation. The EU would support us of course.

While I agree with you in that its a possible road to disaster if not carried out exactly right, as mentioned above, "closing borders" won't happen.

The big money transfers that effects and has knock-on effects comes through modern monetary digital transfer methods.

Our borders are not going to close. Thats just in the realm of fantasy.

darkman2

Biggins wrote: »

Our borders are not going to close.

Do you not except that they will close if the UK print is not "sensible amounts"? It seems fantasy now but may not remain that. If they print too much we won't have a choice. Just a little too much will cause runaway inflation.

Dotsie~tmp

LOL at the doomsday scenarios. They know inflation will follow if the keep the easing going long enough. Question is are simply doing it to counter short term deflation or is there a begger thy neighbour agenda coming. It will be interesting sharing a border with them since competitive devaluations are no longer an option for us in the Euro.

Biggins

darkman2 wrote: »

Do you not except that they will close if the UK print is not "sensible amounts"? It seems fantasy now but may not remain that. If they print too much we won't have a choice.

Nope. Sorry. I'd stake my life on that.

darkman2

Biggins wrote: »

Nope. Sorry. I'd stake my life on that.

So a Western Country is about to print money and your sure it will work out alright? Let me ask you - how many countries have printed money and maintained standards of living? I don't know tbh...I have not a clue. It is really bad though when a western country starts printing. TBH we don't know the result but our borders would have to close if hyper inflation sets in as in most cases.

darkman2

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

them since competitive devaluations are no longer an option for us in the Euro.

Some would say the UK has intentionally devalued as is!

Sam Vimes

darkman2 wrote: »

So a Western Country is about to print money and your sure it will work out alright? Let me ask you - how many countries have printed money and maintained standards of living? I don't know tbh...I have not a clue. It is really bad though when a western country starts printing. TBH we don't know the result but our borders would have to close if hyper inflation sets in as in most cases.

As has already been said, printing money is something countries do during recessions and ireland has devalued the punt in the past. But we didn't keep doing it over and over again until our entire economy collapsed like a pack of retards forcing all our neighbours to cut us off

So devaluing the currency once or twice is an accepted response to a recession, while doing it over and over again when it's clearly not working is retarded. So retarded in fact that the only way it would ever happen is if they put a monkey in a room with a "devalue the currency some more" button and let him go nuts

We'll just have to hope and pray they don't do that

Berty

In 1922 Germany started printing money and created a state of hyperinflation whereby their currency was completely devalued against all others and prices kept going up and up.

For us. Our €50 notes would become like 1 cent coins and €500 notes would become like €1 coins.

Their currency went from a maximum denomination of 50,000 in 1922 to 100,000,000,000,000 in 1923.

They had to change their currency to bring it back to levels seen over a decabe beforehand.

If the UK do this the £ will crumble and they will come begging for the €

Guy:Incognito

Berty wrote: »

If the UK do this the £ will crumble and they will come begging for the €

Maybe thats the plan so they can slide through the introduction of the €?:)



AS for whar we should do if they start? start queing and collecting wheelbarrows of cheap sterling

Why does eveyone here assume tha "printing money" will automatically start an inflationary surge in the UK...


Most people are simply going to use any extra cash to reduce their mortgate/credit card bills, the money will never see the light of day!

zod

the states have been "printing money" for decades! .. and they are about to speed this up

Jonathan

Deleted User wrote: »

Most people are simply going to use any extra cash to reduce their mortgate/credit card bills, the money will never see the light of day!

What about exchange rates?

zod

zod wrote: »

the states have been "printing money" for decades! .. and they are about to speed this up

Apparantly, there are nearly twice as many US dollars in use or held outside of the US than there are in use in the country!

China has as much US currancy as the US alone!

jmccrohan

jmccrohan wrote: »

What about exchange rates?

They've already dropped about 30% in recent years, relative to the euro.
UK imports are more expensive, but consumers are buying less anyway.

DublinWriter

darkman2 wrote: »

I think so. Start printing money - next stop Harare, Zimbabwe.

Next stop, Newry for me!

This action will certainly devalue Sterling by 10%.

Jonathan

Deleted User wrote: »

They've already dropped about 30% in recent years, relative to the euro.
UK imports are more expensive, but consumers are buying less anyway.

When they starting printing money the whole thing will fall apart...

Blackjack

Berty wrote: »

For us. Our €50 notes would become like 1 cent coins and €500 notes would become like €1 coins.

Wow, thats something alright when Unit thats worth a tenth of the value of another Unit suddenly becomes 1 hundredth the value of the larger unit.

Hande hoche!

Will be especially depressing once the first cholera cases hit Louth.

ejmaztec

Ireland can't afford the paper -or the ink, or we'd be already carrying our money round in two suit-cases.

Jonathan

ejmaztec wrote: »

Ireland can't afford the paper -or the ink, or we'd be already carrying our money round in two suit-cases.

We are unable to keep printing money due to ECB restrictions.

darkman2

jmccrohan wrote: »

We are unable to keep printing money due to ECB restrictions.

We can't print money in recession full stop because we are in the Euro. I would not want us to anyway.

Économiste Monétaire

Holy Jesus, shocking level of ignorance being displayed. First, we (Ireland) don't print €50 notes. We haven't since 1999-2001. Second, the ability for central bank quantitative easing to turn into rampant inflation is dependent upon banks' willingness to lend. Did rampant inflation take place in Japan when the central bank increased the reserves of commercial banks 10 fold? No. The quantity of money is not the be all of monetary economics, try: falling velocity; increased demand for ever more liquid assets; deflationary expectations; et cetera.

We can't print currency? Then why did the CBFSAI increased the total amount of their contribution to physical currency by 25% in a month? There's a difference between printing money to stop deflation, and printing money because you're completely broke with no room for fiscal manipulation.

Yep!

The UK's turning Japanese..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqZ_dC1T7pA

Capt'n Midnight

zod wrote: »

the states have been "printing money" for decades! .. and they are about to speed this up

no they haven't
what they have been doing is keeping the doller high because it's needed by others to buy oil - the paper money part is simple half of all dollar notes are held by non nationals they are slowly chainging the notes , no longer are they all green, at some stage in the future they will improve them to match security features used by most everyne else, stuff like notes of different colours and sizes with holograms and RFID. Then just like the euro change over they will limit the amount you can change into new notes without proof of where you got the notes, they will make trillions !

Capt'n Midnight

will the UK devalue their currency - possibly / will the UK print more money - possibly but only if backed by real assets, they may put more cash in to circulation / will the UK print paper money for the sake of it , never too many people here and there have bad memories of inflation hitting 17% and wiping out a lot of manufacturing industry

ejmaztec

jmccrohan wrote: »

We are unable to keep printing money due to ECB restrictions.

I couldn't help but be satirical, in view of the fact that Ireland is one of the EU members substantially breaching budget limits.

musicmonky

after reading the posts. people should read more history books. or even just read more. geeeee us*

andrew

In this thread: people who don't know anything about macroeconomics but think they do. Well, apart from Économiste Monétaire that is.

Time Magazine

Économiste Monétaire wrote: »

Holy Jesus, shocking level of ignorance being displayed.

Got there before me, sir.

ejmaztec wrote: »

I couldn't help but be satirical, in view of the fact that Ireland is one of the EU members substantially breaching budget limits.

Monetary policy isn't the same as fiscal policy, and the EU is not the same thing as the Euro memberstates.

ejmaztec

andrew wrote: »

In this thread: people who don't know anything about macroeconomics but think they do. Well, apart from Économiste Monétaire that is.

Best let Économiste Monétaire have Brian Lenihan's job then, because the latter doesn't know anything about macroeconomics either.

P.C.

I only know about Microeconomics - I have no money.

If anyone has any spare money - PM me.

ScumLord

I've had to take the ferry over and back from the UK to many times. I was coming back on Wednesday night and a ridiculous amount of Irish trucks came off the boat. A minority where carrying things like JCBs or 2nd hand vans but the rest where obviously exporting and I mean a ridiculous amount of trucks came off that boat.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

I've had to take the ferry over and back from the UK to many times. I was coming back on Wednesday night and a ridiculous amount of Irish trucks came off the boat. A minority where carrying things like JCBs or 2nd hand vans but the rest where obviously exporting and I mean a ridiculous amount of trucks came off that boat.

Just goes to show what happens when a neighbouring country's currency is devalued relative to your own!

It's quite likely that some of those trucks were bringing in goods from mainland Europe, undercutting local products as well.

Deflation here we come!

Agent Smith

darkman2 wrote: »

I think we should close the border to the North now and if the UK carries out what it plans we should close borders to them. We will have to anyway. There is no way we could tolerate printing money in a land bordering country.

I'm in a nitpicking mood

1. The North ( i assume you mean Northern Ireland) Is a Part of the UK. The Clue is in the name (The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland)


2.How Would you Propose Closing the border? A Giant Fence? Kinda Goes against all we signed up to with the European Union (Free Movement).