Juan Manuel Marquez v juan diaz

polishpaddy

Why is nobody talking about this fight?
Marquez is my third favourite fighter.
It's on in less than 3 hours time !

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=18912&more=1

walshb

Paddy, please provide a link or article to this; it allows for discussion if folks, not just knowledgeable boxing folks, want to discuss it

polishpaddy

Sorry about that.

walshb

Paddy, this fight starts tomorrow morning, not this morning.
I think Diaz causes the upset

polishpaddy

oh it says 28th 3am ,
Must of read it wrong. I hope your wrong walshb.

ODD-JOB

The weigh in :http://www.fightnews.com/?p=5096
Juan Manuel Marquez 134.25 lbs
Juan Diaz 134.5 lbs.

Marquez is just over 10 years older age 35.
Fight taking place in Heuston , home-town of Juan Diaz.
Marquez's second fight at Lightweight.
Marquez 1 inch taller @ 5'7" , but both have same reach.

My head say a Marquez victory..... he's far more skilled.
my heart says Diaz victory..... he's great to watch, he's just like a really busy Vargas! and Marquez is quite dirty in my opinion.

Setanta review : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JmetoBlIvs

duagre

Is this not going to be in the prediction competition?

Anyway, I expect it to be a wonderful fight, but i'm inclined to think that Marquez will take it by decision. I really expect this to be one of the fights of the year, so don't miss it

ODD-JOB

Yep,.... could be something special.
I rate the Baby Bull Diaz very very highly, and Marquez is on a par with Manny Pacquaio as far as im concerned.

This fight should be a serious top-bill....eagerily anticipated, and ranks up there for match-up of the year.

Diaz is over-coming a cold/flu at the moment as rumour has it.

Also Chris John who fights later tonight is overcoming a heavy bout of the flu ,... enough so that he cancelled his public open workout session during the week.

cowzerp

If people want to suggest fights for the comp just let me know, im going to start up a thread about it, i will only be adding some as i cant add all the good recomendations!

walshb

ODD-JOB wrote: »

The weigh in :http://www.fightnews.com/?p=5096

Setanta review : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JmetoBlIvs

You gotta' love Buncey', so passionate and interesting. Top class

duagre

why do they not say this is for the ring world title, and instead go on about a bunch of vacant alphabet belts

ODD-JOB

Yes Walsh-B ,
He's the "Murray Walker" of boxing , a real charachter,.... and Im almost sure he has a wee tipple thru out the night !!

Come the last fight of the night , Buncey is noticebly "Tired" lol he also tends to let things slip and drops the odd swear word post 4am !!

Running Bing

War as expected.


JMM=Legend.


Why does nobody give a **** about the quality fights? Fights like this that have action written all over them just seem to get overlooked. These are the fights the sport needs to be aggressively promoting.

duagre

This was a great nights boxing

nacho libre

Awesome fight.:cool:

You're guaranteed satisfaction as a boxing fan watching Marquez.

walshb

Super fight. I had Diaz 6-2 up after 8 rds. Marquez showed real class in weathering the storm, taking everything and coming back; the real mark of a champion. Diaz boxed brilliant, but it was JMM heavier shots that did the trick.

nacho libre

aye it's impossible to finish him off. Pacman found that out too.:D

sston

Great scrap but Marquez was just too clever for Diaz once he'd weathered the early storm. Love to see him in with Pacman one more time.

ODD-JOB

Yeah , great fight.....
infact the entire night was great , Rogan v Skelton was brilliant too !

Got to give Juan Diaz respect too ! Dude is a warrior.

He always looks out of shape though ?... I know he refuses to engage roadwork in his training sched. hurt him down the stretch.

Like I said earlier , these are the fights eagerly anticipated by the boxing purists.

I get a little tired of the staged money matches , Manny v Hatton for example... they're never going to fight with the hunger of Diaz v Marquez

MBC

Just watched the fight there on setanta........excellent fight.........love watching JMM.........the way he he likes being on the ropes and being so comfortable is amazing........he got caught with some good shots early on.........but he stuck to his game plan........excellent finish aswell.

ODD-JOB wrote: »

I know he refuses to engage roadwork in his training sched. hurt him down the stretch.

Didnt realise Diaz didnt do roadwork........any links etc ? would like to read about this.

ODD-JOB

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:gD_5cVNEgxwJ:www.everlast.com/juan-diaz-editorial.html+juan+diaz+swimming&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=ie last paragraph of this page

MBC

ODD-JOB wrote: »

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:gD_5cVNEgxwJ:www.everlast.com/juan-diaz-editorial.html+juan+diaz+swimming&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=ie last paragraph of this page

Very interesting, cheers.

walshb

I see JMM calling out PBF for a fight and saying that PBF is p4p best.
Hadn't he noticed that PBF is retired and hasn't fought in 15 months?

BTW, PBF would destroy JMM; too big and accurate and effective.
It wouldn't be much of a fight and would have to see JMM
move to 147 lbs.

sston

walshb wrote: »

I see JMM calling out PBF for a fight and saying that PBF is p4p best.
Hadn't he noticed that PBF is retired and hasn't fought in 15 months?

BTW, PBF would destroy JMM; too big and accurate and effective.
It wouldn't be much of a fight and would have to see JMM
move to 147 lbs.

Yeah I thought that was a bit nuts alright calling out Mayweather, I suppose that's where he thinks the money is but you're right he's far too small for him. I think another Pacman fight is the best one out there for him.

walshb

Also, I think he may want the winner of Pac-Hatton; I couldn't care for Pac-Marquez III to be honest. I think Ricky poses serious problems for Marquez in the strength department.
Marquez' best chance to win is against Pac; so maybe that should be his gut feeling and fight. Hatton overwhelms Marquez I feel!

megadodge

Absolute cracker of a fight. That's what boxing is all about.

Even though I've stated here before that I think Diaz is overrated, I was impressed with him in the earlier part of the fight. However, Marquez is just so, so intelligent, you could nearly predict the gradual shift of where Diaz was landing less often and Marquez more often as the rounds went by. Marquez’s combinations are a thing of beauty and his use of uppercuts from either hand is unequalled by any other active boxer that I’m aware of.

I get a little tired of the staged money matches , Manny v Hatton for example... they're never going to fight with the hunger of Diaz v Marquez

Odd-job, while I know where you’re coming from (DLH/PBF) I think you couldn’t have mentioned a more inappropriate example. Can you think of a fight where either of those two didn’t show hunger ? I can’t. I’m licking my lips in anticipation of that one and it’s the sort of 50/50 high profile fight between two exciting boxers at (or near) their prime that boxing needs.

rovert

Ive long since stopped caring about boxing but this fight made me love it again. Great fight.

ODD-JOB

sston wrote: »

Yeah I thought that was a bit nuts alright calling out Mayweather.

Personally i think that was a bit of a "tounge in cheek" comment.
Marquez has a passionate hatred for Manny, Ive noticed it in their previous fights and interviews.
I think Marquez said "I want to fight the best , the p4p best and that means Floyd Mayweather" or something to that effect.
He was really claiming the Manny was not p4p#1 !

Dont forget that Marquez has just moved up a tier to lightweight !! To fight P.B.Floyd he would have to move up far far far too much weight. Every ounce counts in boxing

Mega-Dodge :
I hear what you're saying too ,.. maybe Manny v Hatton wasn't the best example , but a valid example none the less !
Both these dudes are past the hungry hungry stage.
Im sure they both have a great drive to claim the winners pot on fight-night but to be honest Hatton has a celebritry thing going on , and Pacquaio lives with unhealthy attitudes , like many of the greats , he falls into wonanizing , drinking , partying , and turns up late to training camp. although I cant ever doubt either of their talents, both dazzle.

Somebody once said "its hard to get up at 5.30am and run when you're wearing silk pyjamas"

Calzaghe v Jones, Calzaghe v Hopkins , Oscar v anybody, Klitscko brothers , etc fall into the same bracket.
Although I wouldnt miss it for the world , I would prefer to see fighters like :
Cotto , Soto, Gamboa, Margarito, Isreal Vasquez, Donnaire, Valero, Calderon and Povetkin who relentlessly chase the top spot.

megadodge

Well, in my opinion Pacman is a better fighter now than he ever was ! He's far more rounded, skilful, tactically aware, yet still excites. The jury is out on Hatton's form, but I really disagree that these two ain't hungry.

As a good example look at Holyfield. What reason in the wide earthly world does he need to continue for ? Yet, he keeps going, cos that hunger and desire just won't leave him.

I'd agree with Cal/Jones as a good example, but not Cal/Hopkins.

walshb

Yes, hungry for the money and that is about it. Pac is not at his best weight for starters, and Hatton IMO is past his peak by a couple of years.

Pacman is a feather fighting a very limited fighter in terms of skill.

I like Ricky, but his skill levels leave a lot to be desired. I rated him so high, but
after much study, I came to the conclusion that I overrated him.

I am looking forward to the fight still; but I question the MEGA status of it

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Yes, hungry for the money and that is about it. Pac is not at his best weight for starters, and Hatton IMO is past his peak by a couple of years.

Pacman is a feather fighting a very limited fighter in terms of skill.

I like Ricky, but his skill levels leave a lot to be desired. I rated him so high, but
after much study, I came to the conclusion that I overrated him.

I am looking forward to the fight still; but I question the MEGA status of it

And what's wrong with wanting to make as much money as he can ?

Considering all the managerial disputes and legal cases Manny has had over the years, I hope to God when he gets out of the game he's a wealthy man and the parasites haven't sucked him dry. Too many boxers leave the game with nothing while their managers are rolling in it !!

This is a dangerous fight for both fighters, no matter how you look at it. It's actually quite hard to predict a winner, irrespective of what you think of their styles, lifestyles, etc. That's why people are so interested in it. That's why it's bigger news than if they were fighting lesser known (and easier) fighters.

And I think you're seriously undervaluing Hatton's skill level by saying he's "very limited". Not alone could he have not stayed where he has been for the last few years, but he would never even have reached there if he was that bad.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

And what's wrong with wanting to make as much money as he can ?

Considering all the managerial disputes and legal cases Manny has had over the years, I hope to God when he gets out of the game he's a wealthy man and the parasites haven't sucked him dry. Too many boxers leave the game with nothing while their managers are rolling in it !!

This is a dangerous fight for both fighters, no matter how you look at it. It's actually quite hard to predict a winner, irrespective of what you think of their styles, lifestyles, etc. That's why people are so interested in it. That's why it's bigger news than if they were fighting lesser known (and easier) fighters.

And I think you're seriously undervaluing Hatton's skill level by saying he's "very limited". Not alone could he have not stayed where he has been for the last few years, but he would never even have reached there if he was that bad.

I don believe I ever said there was anything wrong with making money. Fair play to
both men. Thats not my point. I am saying that the MONEY is the hunger issue, not the fight or the p4p or anything else. Money is the major force with this bout.

It is very hard to predict a winner and if boxing is to be śaved' then one should want a Hatton win. He is the natural, and the bigger man and has campaigned at 140-147 for all his career. Manny is a blown up feather. Now, if Hatton is skilled and a real 140 lb man, he should do the trick here.

Remember, Pac stared at 112 lbs. I don care how much he has bulked up; he is not close to a real 140 lb man. I give him at best, 130 lbs.

I really do believe that Hattonś career and legacy should be up for
debating with this fight. A good solid win will do it all the good and a loss will
IMO dent his whole career.

I think the chap is limited and has very little fundamental skills.

ODD-JOB

megadodge wrote: »

As a good example look at Holyfield. What reason in the wide earthly world does he need to continue for ? Yet, he keeps going, cos that hunger and desire just won't leave him.

Holyfield's totally smashed ! he blew the lot years ago.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24994059/

He's trying to get a few quid together to live with some degree of comfort later in life.

Dont get me wrong, I looked at Evander a a hero growing up,... and based it on his moral charachter as a devout christian and general do-gooder !
Fame led him into the womanizing ways and the silk pyjama's.
he slipped out of my favourites list.

megadodge

Holyfield's financial problems are only a recent phenomenon.

For years now, everybody in boxing has wanted him to retire, with one of the main reasons (besides the obvious health one) being he doesn't need the money.

And until recently he didn't.

So, why continue ?

megadodge

I think the chap is limited and has very little fundamental skills.

Well then, could you break it down somewhat and tell me what exact fundamentals he's missing ? I'm dead serious.

And I don't want "he gets hit too easily". Firstly, because he doesn't. Secondly, that doesn't explain which fundamentals he's missing.

foams

Yea i agree with megadodge here, i believe Hattons class, the
Head movement and the Jab were back when he fought
malignaggi and with Floyd senior he will only be better vs pacquiao.

ODD-JOB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBB212uMOLI

There's no doubt that money prevails over legacy for the majority at the top .
Exceptions stand out !

I think the Hatton v Pacquiao match is really happening because they are two fighters that are sure to draw record breaking money from the fans.
Its an odd weight arrangment , and surely after this match both Hatton and Pacquiao will return to widely seperate weight classes .

On the other hand , it will be a cracker of a fight .
2 guys who keep coming forward with busy busy workrates ! both very exciting to watch.

Neither of them are as hungry as they used to be whilst on the rise. Money eats away discipline, they got far better things available rather than their solitrary training life's of old.

That J.J Marquez is really hungry I'd think. I bet he put far more commitment into his preparation than most fighters.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Well then, could you break it down somewhat and tell me what exact fundamentals he's missing ? I'm dead serious.

And I don't want "he gets hit too easily". Firstly, because he doesn't. Secondly, that doesn't explain which fundamentals he's missing.

Well, if you are dead serious, I'd better get cracking!

You say he doesn't get hit easily. Go watch Tsyzu and Hatton and tell me that. An OLD Tsyzu as well. The guy ate right hands all night
He continually walked onto straight rights vs. PBF and never once tried to alter his
attack methods. Rush rush rush and eat eat eat.

Oh, and Juan Lazcano. This guy HOPPED off Hatton all night. Yes, he does get hit rather easily

Okay, he has pretty much ZERO outside skill; barely a fundamental jab or straight right hand. He has heart and is tough and is a lovely digger to the body. He grabs and hits and grabs and hits. He cannot throw combinations all that well.

He's a good fighter; just one I overrated. On a 1-10 skill level, he is a 5!
On a 1-10 heart and guts level; he is an 8 or 9

And he is definitely past his peak, definitely!

megadodge

I'm tired hearing people putting Tsyzu down in an attempt to denigrate Hatton's victory over him.

I was a big Tsyzu fan since I first saw him in the 1991 World ams - where he won the best boxer - so I've followed his career closely. The fight immediately before the Hatton one was regarded by many as his best ever performance against Sharmba Mitchell (2) a man who had given the YOUNGER Tsyzu serious problems before succumbing to a knee injury in 8. Kostya OBLITERATED him in 3 brutal rounds. Then in his next fight he's suddenly OLD because it suits the argument.

Hatton didn't eat right hands all night, cos if he did he'd have been KO'd. Tszyu's right hand has terrific power. He definitely got hit, but for God's sake this is boxing. You don't hear people giving out about Barrera/Morales, Vazquez/Marquez having bad defences, yet there were hundreds of punches landed on all boxers in all their fights.

The whole Mayweather argument has been done over and over, so I'll just say that Floyd didn't land too many punches for 5 full rounds - mainly because it's hard to punch when you're holding at EVERY SINGLE OPPORTUNITY. Henry Akinwande was disqualified for less against Lewis. However Hatton committed the fatal error of losing his cool (hard to blame him in the circumstances) and as he did he was picked off.

His head movement in general is far better than your average 'brawler'. He has a decent jab, but tends not to use it much as he's usually waiting to come inside the opponent's jab and counter with hooks and uppercuts from both hands, as well as keep the fight inside as that's where he's so much better than most of his opponents, which makes sense - fight to your own strengths not your opponents. His footwork is excellent. From a fundamentals point of view he's very solid.

walshb

Tsyzu was OLD, that is a fact. He was 35 and hadn't fought at all apart from Mitchell in about 3 years. Two bouts in 3 years was it? This is undeniable and so too is the fact that Tsyzu nailed Hatton constantly with shots. Hatton's defence in this fight was his face. That is undeniable. I would say punch stats saw Tsyzu out score Ricky BIG!

And I am fully aware it's boxing and folks get hit. But Hatton got hit too much because he takes so much to land his own. I would have given Ricky 8 rds against a younger and fresher Tsyzu.

You failed to mention Lazcano who had Hatton in all kinds
of trouble in that bout.

My whole point is that Hatton is past it and is far from a true legend. He has skills; obviously, but not in the GREAT category, not close. He has PLAN A, and that is it!

I don't see these skills you do. I do see a tough guy with foot speed, average hand speed, weak defence, NO jab, no combos, no outside game and no right cross.

PBF spotted this a mile away and that's a big reason he took the
fight; he knew he could beat the slightly one dimensional Hatton, and get a HUGE
pay in the process.

foams

Shane Mosely at 37 and Bernard Hopkins at 42 have no business in
the ring so if Tsyzu was shot at 35?

walshb

foams wrote: »

Shane Mosely at 37 and Bernard Hopkins at 42 have no business in
the ring so if Tsyzu was shot at 35?

What has that got to do with it?
I never said Tsyzu shouldn't have been
in the ring. I simply was implying
that he was past peak, as is Mosley and HOP
at 37 and 43. Tsyzu was ALSO ring WORN!

"I would have given Ricky 8 rds against a younger and fresher Tsyzu."

ODD-JOB

Fighters dont grow old at the same rate !
A fighter can be shot at 30 years old if he's a slugger..... Mayweather could go to 40 with his style , Mosley and Hopkins have led clean clean lives , whilst Hatton pours muck down his throat and eats fry-ups .

All that crap fukcs up your body , like running your car on a diet of cheap dirty petrol and then putting in clean petrol for 6 weeks before you race the engine.

Oscar Larious is 32 and shot to bitz... but that's from 70 pro fights.

megadodge

If Tsyzu was so ring worn, why was his previous fight one of, if not, the most impressive performance of his career ?

Have you actually seen that fight? He looked fantastic in it. And he hadn't had a long, hard career with hard fights either.

walshb

Yes I did see it and he was very good.
Look, I explained my position and it's rather simple;
Hatton beat Tsyzu, brilliant; but I would bet on a PEAK
Tsyzu to take Hatton out. The 35 year old was good, but
NOT peak and anyone who says he was is deluded.

nacho libre

for me Marquez is the best p4p fighter in the world at the moment. as far as i'm concerned he was robbed at least once- if not twice- against Pacman.