my wedding photos on cd problem

auditek923

our photos are on a cd but are copyrighted by the photographer. the photographer ffffed us over and we did not have enough money to pay for his cheapest package of almost 3000 euro. we paid him 1700 euro and got 20 profesional pics and a cd slideshow off another 500 pics. but none of theses pics on the slideshow can be printed off. is there a way round this?

ownknee

Not that I know of because he probably has the pixels reduced to nothing & has a watermark on them. You could get the existing pictures copied but theres no shops I know that does this because of copyrights.
However if you copied them via a scanner yourself & put them on a cd then they can be copied but again you're probably leaving yourself open to getting sued...but only if the photographer finds out.
When did you get married?
If it was a while ago you might be able to do some kind of deal with him because the recession is affecting photographers as well as everyone else.
Did you end things on good terms with him or did things get a bit heated?

jhegarty

What format are they in ?

auditek923

i dont know what format they are in. how do i check? ...

mikeanywhere

Without getting into copyright issues here or what was/wasn't agreed between everyone, why don't you speak to the photographer in the first instance??

PCPhoto

Not trying to offend you but ......

if you couldnt afford the photographers cheapest package €3,000 and only paid the photographer €1700 ....whats the problem ? Why not go with a different photographer before the great day , someone more affordable !!!

I'm on the side of the photographer here - feel free to post your post in the photo section and ask for advice there !!! I'm sure you will informed that you got what you paid for.

Ricky91t

If he wanted you to print them,he would of giving you low-res images to print.The fact they're in a slide show kind of hints at the fact he doesn't want you to print them as he gave you €1300 off.Be happy with the 20 pics you got and nearly 50% off what everyone else pays

whitetea

Your photographer is most probably a human beeing and I would advise you talk to him. Try to be as nice as you can and explain your situation. Photographer always owns the rights for photographs, unless he decides to sell them. However that doesn't mean that he can't let you print them out yourself.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Taking pictures is like tiptoeing into the kitchen late at night and stealing Oreo cookies. - Diane Arbus

mikemac

For 1700 you'd easily get a professional photographer and a range of options for albums, frames and dvd's.

But you can't hire a professional at 3k and then not pay them.

It's too late now and my post sounds unhelpful but next time hire the person you can afford.

I don't know the options open to you but photography forum will know about all this. Maybe there is a solution

CabanSail

You do realise that this is a Public Forum?

I hope you also realise that using copyright images without permission is theft.

Now I do realise that people do things which are not quite legal all the time, but generally they don't advertise the fact on a Public Forum.

The Photographer did give you a substantial discount. If you want to see what sort of package you get from a cheap Photographer then read this. Why not pick out the images you like from the slideshow & then talk to the Photographer. You will then get them at good quality & well printed to boot. Even if you lift the images out of the Slideshow then the resolution will be so low that you will not get decent quality prints anyway.

Tactical

Many photographers won't hand over images for printing as they then have no control over the finished product.

Most printing is colour profile managed and poor results can be had especially if the photographer has used a specific (professional) colour profile as most high street outlets and home printer won't handle it.

Poor quality prints reflect badly on a photographer and can damage a hard won reputation. Sometimes its not specifically about copyright, although this is an extremely important issue and is the photographers right in law.

Have you explained your situation to the photographer in a reasonable manner. I'd be very surprised if someone would be so hard hearted that they wouldn't accomodate someone.

Did the photographer make very clear in your contract exactly what the end product was to be?

fabbydabby

Advice on breaking copyright should be avoided - iguana

auditek923

we hired the photographer at 450 euro. we where told we could then discuss packages after the wedding. we thought we where getting a good deal. in the the end we where fooled. we recieved 20 printed out photos ( not framed) and no album. we also recieved the slideshow. we told him we where broke. (my wife has been laid off since xmas and i am only on part time now also)

CabanSail

I don't think you were fooled. It's more the case that you did not do your research.

Are you happy with the quality of the images you have?

Tactical

auditek923 wrote: »

we hired the photographer at 450 euro. we where told we could then discuss packages after the wedding. we thought we where getting a good deal. in the the end we where fooled. we recieved 20 printed out photos ( not framed) and no album. we also recieved the slideshow. we told him we where broke. (my wife has been laid off since xmas and i am only on part time now also)

So, do you mind if I ask how you arrived with a bill for €1700?

In fairness it sounds like you took the guy at his word but something happened along the way. Very few professionals (full-time or part-time (yes, there are those who operate part-time:eek:)) would agree to fix the the package after the wedding as it give the client (i.e. you) no say what so ever in the end product and this is not a professional way to act.

Would you consider doing a rehearsed shoot for shots if you cannot amicably work out your differences? Doing a pre or post event shoot wouldn't be unheard of.

paulkellypix

auditek923 wrote: »

our photos are on a cd but are copyrighted by the photographer. the photographer ffffed us over and we did not have enough money to pay for his cheapest package of almost 3000 euro. we paid him 1700 euro and got 20 profesional pics and a cd slideshow off another 500 pics. but none of theses pics on the slideshow can be printed off. is there a way round this?

As a photographer reading this it makes my blood boil!

Why do you think it is acceptable to print these copyrighted photos?

If the photographer has "ffffed us over" - then take him to the small claims court - get back at him that way.

If you agreed a contract with him and this clearly stated that the cheapest package was €3000 - then you were not ffffed over.

Breaking copyright laws is THEFT.

In dealing with couples who are on a budget, if I am told this from the outset, I will generally give them a CD with 40-50 high resolution images on it - but only after they have paid me what I am owed. I will still retain copyright, but I grant them permission to reproduce the images for themselves - they cannot use them for commercial or promo purposes.

As this thread is now also in the Photography Forum, there is a chance that the photographer involved sees it and follows it up.

Paul

auditek923

paulkellypix wrote: »

As a photographer reading this it makes my blood boil!

Why do you think it is acceptable to print these copyrighted photos?

If the photographer has "ffffed us over" - then take him to the small claims court - get back at him that way.

If you agreed a contract with him and this clearly stated that the cheapest package was €3000 - then you were not ffffed over.

Breaking copyright laws is THEFT.

In dealing with couples who are on a budget, if I am told this from the outset, I will generally give them a CD with 40-50 high resolution images on it - but only after they have paid me what I am owed. I will still retain copyright, but I grant them permission to reproduce the images for themselves - they cannot use them for commercial or promo purposes.

As this thread is now also in the Photography Forum, there is a chance that the photographer involved sees it and follows it up.

Paul

hahaha oh im sooooo scared of the big bad photographer,please dont tell him.

CabanSail

I don't think you were fooled. It's more the case that you did not do your research.

Are you happy with the quality of the images you have?

Deacon Blues

auditek923 wrote: »

hahaha oh im sooooo scared of the big bad photographer,please dont tell him.

Great attitude. Come on looking for help in perpetrating copyright theft, and then act like a child. Is that your defence ?? Maybe you should check your birth cert to make sure your marriage is legal, in case the priest fffed you over too. If you're not over eighteen, you should have got permission from the circuit court.

PCPhoto

would the OP mind telling us what the "agreement" was with the photographer before the wedding ?

Did the couple tell the photographer they couldn't afford his prices ? and if so, did they agree on a specific package for an agreed fee ?

Did the photographer do his job and photograph the wedding ?

Did the photographer supply what was agreed before the wedding ? (assuming an agreement on a package)

Did the couple pay the photographer ?

have the couple talked to the photographer and asked why the images on CD are copyright protected ?

auditek923

the photgrapher did not even do the shoot, he sent someone else
we did not agree on any packages before the wedding (bad idea i know)
we both lost jobs after the wedding
we went over budget on wedding
yes we paid 1700 euro ( which should have least got us an album)

PCPhoto

thats different from your original post :


you are now saying that - the photographer you hired didnt even do the shoot ? (its possible that the photographer that did the shoot works for the guy you hired.... which can be fairly normal from time to time)

you had paid a deposit - lost your jobs and were not able to make full payment (not really the photographers fault)

you never agreed to what you were going to get BEFORE the wedding ? (this part really makes me wonder - what did you expect to get afterwards ?)

it does seem from your part - you expected more than what you got for the money you paid ..... decent enough arguement - but you have to agree that you couldnt expect the photographer to give you the same as what he would have given you if you had paid the full amount.

Best thing I would suggest is that you try to talk to the photographer?
you didnt get what you expected - but you didnt know what you were going to get (since you hadnt agreed anything before the wedding).

I'm guessing you didnt do enough research on wedding photographers and their prices before your happy day - hopefully your photographer will be willing to talk.

mikeanywhere

auditek923 wrote: »

the photgrapher did not even do the shoot, he sent someone else
we did not agree on any packages before the wedding (bad idea i know)
we both lost jobs after the wedding
we went over budget on wedding
yes we paid 1700 euro ( which should have least got us an album)

As I suggested earlier, you really need to go back and discuss this with the photographer in question as we are not privy to everything that is going on here.

We are only hearing this from your side and to be honest it seems it is somewhat one sided. How can you arrange to have a photographer come and shoot a wedding if you haven't agreed anything/something beforehand??

Ricky91t

You weren't fooled,you are the fool

Talk to the photographer as has been said above,explain what you want to do maybe tell him the 20 he gave you weren't the ones you wanted and if you could pick a few more out.

Don't break the law it would be stupid to,just talk to him i'm sure he'd be much happier that way

paulkellypix

auditek923 wrote: »

hahaha oh im sooooo scared of the big bad photographer,please dont tell him.

Bravo. Wonderful response.

:mad:

paulkellypix

auditek923 wrote: »

the photgrapher did not even do the shoot, he sent someone else

What did it say in the contract you signed? Did the contract allow him to send another photographer?

auditek923 wrote: »

we did not agree on any packages before the wedding (bad idea i know)

You said it yourself - bad idea. Agree EVERYTHING with your photographer. In your defence, the photographer should have made everything crystal clear.

auditek923 wrote: »

we both lost jobs after the wedding

Then you should be prepared to accept whatever concession the photographer offers you.

auditek923 wrote: »

we went over budget on wedding

Did you ask the hotel/florist/dress maker to take a pay cut?

auditek923 wrote: »

yes we paid 1700 euro (which should have least got us an album)

You got 20 prints - buy an album for 30 euro and make it yourself. The €3000 package probably included an Italian handmade Leather Bound album - why would you get this included??

Please take this photographer to the small claims court if you truely believe you were ffffed over.

I would love to see a photographer that has screwed someone over get their just rewards -but equally - ask yourself why you feel that you deserve more - given that the photographer has given you a €1300 discount - which is a 43.33% reduction!!

Paul Kelly Pix

AnCatDubh

auditek923,

I think most of the opinion is pointing towards basically what you had intended to do isn't legally possible and presumably you may not have realised that previously. If you aren't used to the area like this then you mightn't have known as to the legal position.

All the costs paid and subsequent life circumstance set aside for a minute can I reitterate some earlier advice lest it gets lost in the wash - that is go have a talk with your photographer.

The beauty of photographs is that the photographer will retain the image sources and when life circumstance gets back on the rails for you - you should be able to come to an arrangement. It just means it's put on hold for a while.

Yes - original contract, background, etc, etc, sounds like it wasn't the best to be entering into and definately a case of buyer beware but look, these images will be precious to you in the years to come. I'd suggest don't burn bridges.

Perhaps as a short term thing your photographer would be ameniable to standard print sizes for a reasonable cost - its just an idea. Really all i'm saying is to explore the options.

Hope that helps.

Eoin

paulkellypix wrote: »

As a photographer reading this it makes my blood boil!

Why do you think it is acceptable to print these copyrighted photos?

I don't think a lot of people realise that this would be a problem. I also think this is quite understandable - especially as printing the pictures of them on their own wedding day is for personal use in the vast majority of cases.

Luckily we agreed with the photographer that we would get a DVD with decent quality resolution photos that we could print as required. This would have been a deal breaker for me. I don't know whether he agreed because he is a family friend of our in-laws, or because it's a becoming more common and acceptable request.

smelltheglove

I would imagine reading your post that your photographer is very well established considering the prices. Many well established photographers emply other photographers also so say you booked with Joe Bloggs photography and did not request a specific photographer then he would send out who is available on the day.

I do believe he has given you a great discount, I gae a 50% discount myself to a young couple who lost their jobs after returning from honeymoon, they had been unsure of which package they could afford and the one they wanted was the more expensive. As I enjoyed working with the couple and understood their position I fulfilled their request without the remaining payment. This works for me in 2 ways, I have closed the dealings from that wedding, work has been passed along and I know the couple are happy and the other reason being that I know I will get brilliant word of mouth through it.

I guess your photographer would have expected great word of mouth due to the discount, however, if there is a real problem then pursue the matter. It would be highly unprofessional to take a deposit and not discuss the options to choose from afterwards, this is a big mistake on his part and also yours and you should be able to come to a satisfactory agreement in relation to this although I would be happy with what you have received already if all was above board.

Do keep us updated though and dont hesitate to ask for advice. As mentioned above, nobody likes to see a couple taken advantage of, it gives a bad name to the profession.

whippet

it amazes me what some people expect from professionals who they have contracted. It sounds like the photographer gave you a bit of a break with the charges based on the changing circumstances.

When I got married a few years ago i was so particualar about my photographer. He had done a few weddings for friends of mine and every time I was really impressed with the results.

He had a knack for getting to know the couple before the wedding and adapting his style to suit the couple (it's kinda hard to explain but evident in the results).

On the day in question it was like having another friend at the wedding, he was doing his job, but really knew when to stand back and when to approach. At one stage he even joined us for a drink (7up .. before anyone says anything about drinking on the job) when we went in to a private back room to get away from the crowd to chill out before dinner. The camera's were off and put away. He took this opportunity to enquire about some of the people at the wedding and unknowing to us he had made a mental note about some photos of other people we would have liked.

He wasn't cheap, but the results were exactly what we wanted, we did a deal afterwards for the hi-res images (don't know why as I still haven't bothered to print anymore off!!!). I don't believe in wedding videos, they always come across as amature and cheesy, so the photos were very important.

Since my wedding he has gone on and done another four friends weddings!!! every summer during the wedding season he is there! and at this stage most of my friends know him and that sense of knowing everyone comes across very well in all our albums.

Unfortunatly my sister in law didn't heed our advice, went to a wedding fair, got the cheapest deal and the result are horrific. She can't bare to pick up her album at this stage, it looks like something a hobby photographer would have knocked together in iPhoto and sent the album for printing with Apple.

It captured nothing of the athmosphere of the day and to top it off he insisted on taking family portraits against a white sheet backdrop in the family home. Considering this family's home is one of the most elegant period homes I know giving ample opportunity for some great family photos! either he was lazy or hadn't the ability to make the most of the surroundings.

My advise to anyone, research your photograher and be totally confident that you are both on the same wavelenght. To get a proper job done isn't cheap so the transaction and deal should be treated with the utmost respect.

Eoin

whippet wrote: »

don't believe in wedding videos, they always come across as amature and cheesy, so the photos were very important.

This isn't really the thread for it, but I very much disagree with this. I did see some terrible samples but very professional ones also. Most are probably cheesy to everyone but the couple themselves. But that's who they are made for. Ours was certainly not amateur, and we are very glad we got one done.

You said that you have to get a professional photographer to make the difference - well, the same goes for a videographer as well.