AEG vs. GBB

Hivemind187

I have been watching the development of carbine GBB's with interest. First WA then the clone (did that ever surface?) and recently the Inokatsu M4.

There are pro's and con's to either side but I'm wondering if we are going to see a split in the usage of kit?

What I mean is that the majority of GBB's work nearly identically to the real thing with reasonable felt recoil, working cocking action etc ... hell, even the cool down factor forces you to use controlled bursts rather than the long sprays available with an AEG. Trouble is they are very expensive to buy and run. In this sense the GBB seem to be the item of choice for MilSim.

AEG's on the other hand arent quite as realistic. The ammo caps, batteries, sound, lack of felt recoil and cocking mechanisms etc are very different from the real thing. They are however easier to maintain, cheaper to run (electricity costs less than gas) and are far easier to modify internally without obliterating the gun itself.

I can see a split happening wherein AEG's become the standard for casual skirmishing and GBB's become the standard for MilSim players and events.

anyone any thoughts on this?

Turncoat

Every player wants a GBB but not everyone can skirmish with them due to different playing styles. We see people emptying mags after mags in a regular skirmish following the old spray and pray routine. I did this as well when I started playing but after 6 months my playing style has changed completely. For starters I've started using mid-caps and only using 1 or 2 100 round magazines per round. The thing with GBB's is that their mag capacity is 50 rounds(open to correction).

I completely agree that GBB's in milsim are a viable option but they are not for everyone in a regular skirmish. Even if this split between AEG's and GBB's occurs we still have to take into account that not everyone can afford GBB's and their accessories. Granted that airsofters spend a lot of money into their hobby but in the end a lot of players would rather buy 2 low budget AEG's and pimp them out rather than spending a lot of cash into a GBB.

Another factor is the maintenance of a GBB. Like me a lot of players are technologically challenged.

The third option is electric blowback like the TM M4 SOPMOD or CYMA EBB MP5. A mix of both AEG's and GBB's.

Personally, I'm already saving up for a GBB.

Stercus Accidit

GBB will be class for milsim.

Milsim is class for airsoft.

The more milsim there is, the more gbb will be desireable.


For now, the technology needs to improve a bit, the reliability, and competition to reduce cost.

A decent gbb loadout is pricier than an aeg and some mag mids.



What I want is for gbb to have no compromise in realism, mags stopping firing once dry is one thing, the ghk ak doesnt do this yet afaik, a real deal breaker for me.

Puding

not a long post for me, i have 2 gbb rifiles so have a little experience

gbb - no practical especially in are climite, large ups and downs in fps output, great for milsim and realsim, high cost

aeg - practical, you can charge a battery almost anywhere, you can spend anything from 100euro to 600euros on an aeg so for all people, constancy, works in most conditions,

ok my answer are deliberately mixed up with ups and downs all in together, this is because there is no right or wrong answer, both will have there supports both ahve there advantages and disadvantages and they always will.

I say good that both are out there and people should try both, both increase the diversity and enhance airsoft as a whole

What I want is for gbb to have no compromise in realism, mags stopping firing once dry is one thing, the ghk ak doesnt do this yet afaik, a real deal breaker for me.

watched that debate gp back and forth on some forums real steel ak has no bolt stop, but then again it will not fire without a round, seen people try and stop dry fireing in the ghk, with not much success, its a catch 22 situation with the ak

kevteljeur

Hivemind187 wrote: »

I can see a split happening wherein AEG's become the standard for casual skirmishing and GBB's become the standard for MilSim players and events.

anyone any thoughts on this?

When did you start being reasonable? Must have gotten that sleep you kept mentioning...

I agree completely - and I think one of two of the subsequent posters might have missed that. For common or garden skirmishing you probably wouldn't even want to take out your expensive GBB kit, but it's perfect for the complete MilSim experience. I agree that they won't take over from the electric kit soon, but then again in a few years we might look back at the AEG and laugh about how we used them, much as now we might feel about springers.

I think that airsofting will go that way a bit generally, since some would rather play MilSim than just skirmish, so it follows that the technology will split a bit that way too.

If you're really serious about your airsofting (which I'm not, unfortunately) then in a year or two you'll have just a few expensive GBB rifles and a couple of pistols, rather than a huge pile of cheap AEGs as many do now. It's part of the maturing of the technology and the game.


I actually seem to remember writing all of this before in a similar discussion...

Lemming

The biggest drawback to GBBs as primary arms in my opinion is the Irish weather. It's just not dry/warm enough for anything resembling optimal performance.

Necron99

Well if there anything like the GBB pistols the rifle would find itself in the same place as my 2 GBB-P's, sitting on a shelf gathering dust.
So far the only mediocre experience I've had with a GBB is the MP-40 (note I've never had a "good" experience) it fires off just the like a real MP-40 emptying the clip in a few seconds but its great fun as it uses 8mm BB's
All others just have to many misfire/feeds or just leak gas

AEG all the way for me tho, far more reliable

bullets

I want a GBB long Arm, but dont really want an Armalite or AK look.
Ideally something fugly like a FAL or G3. Although I would not mind too much
a vietnam era look of a armalite.

I've stopped myself several times over the last month or two from ordering
one of the M4's from ehobby. (The cheapest one is out of stock)
Would have worked out at around 250 Euros not including tax/fees/postage.

Buying the Gas for them would not be the problem, it would be the price
of the Mags that would be the killer on the pocket. And maintaining mag seals,
and dealing with leaky mags etc...

I would actually prefer to be using something GBB on Semi or 3 round bursts
that had a mid cap capacity ideally maybe twice the amount of BB's as a real steel mag
so you have a balance between realism and airsoft practicality

Electric Blow back just does not float my boat. Grand if its a feature on an AEG that
you are buying anyway but theres no way I would specifically go out and buy
an AEG because it had the electric blow back feature.

~B

Gaiscioch (^.^)

I LOVE GBB rifles, used 2 differernt ones a good few times, i found the fps was a hit and miss(not miles apart but enough to notice). I dont own one as the price sadly is WAY out of my limit, seems everything about them is so expensive. Gas (i find) is a huge pain in ireland.

AEG's i do like and keep to mid caps, used to spray when starting out but now i found its alot more fun to try keep it "real", short bursts, semi. so cheap too compair to GBB

never used an electric blow back so cant comment:( (good?? bad??)

So me sadly would have to say i would go with AEG's... for now untill GBB get cheaper or there is a better gas or way to power them.

Stercus Accidit

kevteljeur wrote: »

and I think one of two of the subsequent posters might have missed that.

No sense making the same point twice.

My point is that there wont be a split until the technology and reliability improves to the point that a gbb is more suitable for milsim than say, an aeg fitted with mid caps. As such there wont be a split up until this point.
Milsim and possibly gbb are the way forward for the sport IMO, though EBB and GBB are both being developed at the moment, which ever does the job best will win out.

Hope that clears it up.


My posts can be a rambing affair which necesitates the ability to read between the lines, I am training to become an architect after all

MacAonghusa

I'm only interested in milsim but doubt i''d ever bother getting a gbb.

An AEG with kick (as weak as it is) (EBB) would be nice but I see zero need for GBB guns. Not in this climate. I don't think gas would add value to the experience at all.

TheDoc

I'm a milsim lover no doubt about it.

I always say that airsoft would be a better game if there was ammo limits everywhere in every game, and that midcaps where the standard.

It is just not going to materialise anytime soon.

I think its sad personally, that I now HAVe to bring hicaps to a weekend skirmish, because if I keep my midcaps, I get hockeyed around, and I'm sick of reloading them so often.

One thing I wanted from the word go was a gun that had blowback, locked back when out of ammo and couldnt be fired empty, and a gun that requires actual cocking to chamber the first BB.

The TM sopmod looked like it would bring everything into one for me. What held me back about the GBB Rifles, is irish weather and the cost of spare mags. I would buy it in a heartbeat if we had warmish weather, and mags were not like 80 bucks a pop. They are by far the most delightful guns you will see in Airsoft.

However after spending more and more time on the field, I asked myself was there any point, in splashing roughly 600 euro on a GBB or TM sopmod plus mags, to pull out once in a blue moon to use at milsim. The anwser was a swift no.

Milsim is what airsoft is all about. I maybe still newish to the game ( 1 year airsoft in a week or two :P) But from the start I felt milsim was what airsoft was. It wasnt box mags, it wasnt drum mags, it wasnt 25rps guns. It was realistic scenarios, realistic tactics and medic rules, ammo limit and midcaps.

I've experienced a brief introduction to milsim here in Ireland, largely thanks to paul and those who write the scripts for the games. I went to PR2, and frankly, airsoft has been ****e since i came back. I have long considered stopping playing, to play only milsim, cause ive a pain in my tits with normal skirmishing, the box mags, the cheating, the general ****e that goes along with it.

On the topic however, there is literally no comparision as to which is the better device, its GBB all the way. Far superiour realism and firing satisfaction, along with abssolutely marvelous craftmanship in their build.

However, in Ireland atleast, AEG will win everytime. Our weather is so ****e that its not feasible to go running with a GBB. The jumps and dips in FPS, severe cooldown and downright annoyance.

The main turnoff for me is the cost of GBB mags, the lads will tell you, and if tony checks his camera feed on the shop haha, you will see me every saturday with out fail messing with his WA GBB, its the best gun ive laid my hands on. But I dont buy guns to hang on a wall, i want to use them. And considering mags are nearly 80 bucks a pop, for 30 rounders, id need about 8.

Thats over 1300 euro for a gun, that to be frank in this country, is completely wasted.

Tigger

i have an electric pistol
i got it thrown in from someone here when i bought something
i see why it exists but i don't enjoy it at all, i have 7 gbb pistols each with three or four mags and i love shooting them. i have no gbb rifles but if i did i'm sure i would feel the same

most "serious" collectors be they skirmishers or just colletcors for the fun of collecting will have spent far more on aegs than would be nessiciary to get a decent gbb rifle with many mags so i don't think its gas i think its practicality and the fact its a growing sport

all aegs feel the same really they are like laser guns the way they fire out beams of bbs they are excellent for skirmishing but soo there will be "mad" aeg based hi capped skirmishes and mill sim gas based skirmishes
i also think that the gas and mill sim players will be able to hone their skills against the "mad" players in their games

i think as airsoft grows it will become more milsim and more gas orientated
the "explosive " feeling of the gas is what i crav eif i'm playing milsim i'd prefer to loose dual wielding my up graded gbb long pistols than win playing with an up graded aeg

finally i was asked this at the hrta bash by a mate with a borrowed aeg

"how coem i can play competitivly at a sport that everyone else here is ment to take seriously"

i explained to him that it aws a new sport and much as yer kid sister can beat you at a new beat em up game by pad mashing until proper l;ines of skill have been drawnb the equipment is doing the work

i doubt he could go against any player who uses gas lo cap equipment with equivalent gear and have a hope

thats how it is how it should be and yes its gonna be expensive but its gonna be great

ps: why cant we heat the magwells with some form of wrap you can get electric clothing for bikes it runs on 12v we have batteries we have genieuses

whould that be the way forward

Hivemind187

Interesting prices on the GBB Rifle front (at least where armalites are concerned).

WE M4 .... $360 (€285)

WE M4 GBB Mag .... $40 (€31)

The power out-put might be a little high for Ireland but as far as I have been able to find out the readings are taken at 20 degrees (which is a damn fine day in Ireland) using Top-Gas. Lighter Gas or colder conditions might get around that issue.

Ok, so the mags are still horribly expensive but its a major tumble from a tonne a pop!

Lots of people talking about the power issues with GBB rifles. Not entirely sure they are valid concerns. The majority of the cool-down effect (though pronounced in our climate) happens with multiple sucessive shots in tight timings. The spray & pray tactic will certainly cause huge difficulty but short controlled bursts and picking your moment to strike is a staple of MilSim so I can see how it is less likely to be a problem.

The lower temperature might work in our favor pushing the guns below the 1 joule limit from their highs in warmer climes.

Masada

I wouldn't be too sure the chrono reading they provide are accurate over here anyway, a lot of countries rate the WA M4 at 360-390 and i have used a bog standard one that only fires 315-320 on a warm summer day in ireland.:)

I'm gonna email them and see what they think, then i'll buy it.,:)

Hivemind187

Masada wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure the chrono reading they provide are accurate over here anyway, a lot of countries rate the WA M4 at 360-390 and i have used a bog standard one that only fires 315-320 on a warm summer day in ireland.:)

I'm gonna email them and see what they think, then i'll buy it.,:)

Lol.

Let me know if its worth it and when I have some disposable spondolicks I'll grab one myself.

400 for 10x30rnd mags might take a while to come by though