Rethinking the focus...

TelePaul

Gents, apologies if this is better suited to Feedback, but I think we need to assess the focus of the Music Production forum.

Before the right honourable Mr. Brewer, and before the right honourable Mr. Cornbb, going waaay back to the days of the right honourable Mr. Frobisher, the Music Production forum was a very different place. Not better, though not any worse either, just...different.

The focus of the forum today is entirely professionally-driven, with industry experts helping out industry experts or, at the very least, dedicated amateurs with 'prosumer' kit. The number of regulars who seem to operate studios in an even limited commercial capacity is astounding. The wealth of knowledge on show is pretty incredible to behold (although at times the discussion understandably degenerates into base lusting after gear porn!).

Now this wasn't always the case. In the days of yore, we had those loveable chaps who wanted to know why the CD they cut with a cracked version of Cubase SX3 and the line-in on their laptop didn't sound as loud as Satannica's new album. What was the best rap-mic for under €50, and why did our tone suffer when we plugged guitars straight into our mixers? What the hell is MIDI, and why does it sound so fake? Why can't I mix with headphones? Etc etc etc...

To tell ya the truth lads, I miss these guys! It's not like they don't drop in from time to time, but it seems when they do, they're told that to cut a demo, they need the latest Macbook, a bunch of vintage german-made mics and KRK VXT8s (or the equivalent!). Conscious efforts are made to downplay the benefits of home recording and commercially-operated project studios are championed instead. People looking for constructive feedback on mixes (I'm referring solely to myself here, as undoubtedly the most amateur of all who post regularly) have them dismissed as weak or even 'unlistenable'.

I believe that we need to reasess the objectives of the forum; does it exist to serve as one great big Boys Club, a social outlet for those whose Pro Tools rig resembles NASA mission control? Or does it cater for the needs of the newbie, the home-recordist, who has limited time, funds, and know-how but wants to cut a few demos for his band? Because right now, I don't think the forum can cater for the needs of both.

Perhaps the mods could look into this; I don't think I'm imagining this, and it's certainly not a case of "fighting teh powah". Other forums (like photography and video games) contain sub-forums with a different focus to the mainstream forum, or use stickies to convey a different sort of information to a more casual user. I think it may be time for a change.

charlesquinn

Im no regular poster here, but i think this forum caters for all levels. Whats pro or commercially driven about these threads?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055492259

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055492296

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055496328

TelePaul

charlesquinn wrote: »

Im no regular poster here, but i think this forum caters for all levels. Whats pro or commercially driven about these threads?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055492259

In the first reply, the op is told that recording at a studio would be cheaper in the long run - despite the fact that OP asks for advice on home-studio setup.

charlesquinn wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055496328

12th post, someone recommends that they buy a 12 year old, who has no pre-existing knowledge of music production, a Macbook - despite the fact that the OP has provided the specifications of a perfectly usable PC.

Rockshamrover

Hi Telepaul, I am definitely one of the amateurs around here but I do like to hear what the pros have to say about different aspects of the whole music production thing.

I have learned an awful lot and got some very good advise just from reading the posts on this forum. I have also heard a lot of BS from the exact same people.

I hear what you are saying about the advise given to some posters regarding what direction to take and what equipment to use.

The thing I try to do is to pick out the good from the bad and listen to the views of all the posters on any given topic.

There are a fare few people on here, including your good self, who's views on different aspects of music production I really respect. Not all the pearls of wisdom come from the pros.

Neurojazz

The thing i find most annoying is the spelling correction posts..... it's like the reader completely ignores the question and focuses on the actual spelling mistake rather than the content...

I'm first to put my hand in the air that my spelling isn't 100%, and my knowledge about most areas in audio in probably worse - but it does make me wonder why the 'clicks' seem very ready to jump on people for stupid things like that.

What's the point of asking questions? - to get them grammatically sorted before being ignored?

And for those obsessed wit spellin, hiers sum wrds fur u 2 mezz wit.

blah... who cares

I gave up on the feedback on music thread and just release everything now - better out than in.

TelePaul

Rockshamrover wrote: »

Hi Telepaul, I am definitely one of the amateurs around here but I do like to hear what the pros have to say about different aspects of the whole music production thing.

I have learned an awful lot and got some very good advise just from reading the posts on this forum. I have also heard a lot of BS from the exact same people.

I hear what you are saying about the advise given to some posters regarding what direction to take and what equipment to use.

The thing I try to do is to pick out the good from the bad and listen to the views of all the posters on any given topic.

There are a fare few people on here, including your good self, who's views on different aspects of music production I really respect. Not all the pearls of wisdom come from the pros.

Hey man. I appreciate what you're saying. And if I was a little better at music production myself, I'd not only be content with the way things are, I'd probably be telling the newbs to hit the road! :pac: But I am, and probably will always be, an amateur.

I think there should be a place for everyone - another forum i frequent has a dedicated sub-forum for newbies, because it tends to cut down on repetition; as I mentioned in another thread, the hobby/business/entity that is music recording attracts two kinds of people - those who want to record demos for their band or play around with loops/synths. And then there are the pros who make little disticntion between tracking/mixing/producing, the guys with an innate knowledge of the subject.

DamagedTrax

i think peoples opinions need to be heard but questions answered aswell.

how about we answer questions directly first and then give personal opinions on the subject/gear.

TelePaul

DamagedTrax wrote: »

how about we answer questions directly first and then give personal opinions on the subject/gear.

Well that's one idea, but the whole topic lends itself to one-up-manship. It' also entirely possible to lose sight of peoples objectives; a Behringer mixer and SP mics are perfectly acceptable to some, but deemed entirely unsuitable by those "in-the-know". It's a cultural thing!

DamagedTrax

TelePaul wrote: »

Well that's one idea, but the whole topic lends itself to one-up-manship. It' also entirely possible to lose sight of peoples objectives; a Behringer mixer and SP mics are perfectly acceptable to some, but deemed entirely unsuitable by those "in-the-know". It's a cultural thing!

yeah but anyone who recomends an atb to someone who's looking for a behringer is just acting the cock :pac:

just gotta but our brains into gear b4 our fingers!

TelePaul

DamagedTrax wrote: »

yeah but anyone who recomends an atb to someone who's looking for a behringer is just acting the cock :pac:

Some people just can't help themselves! :eek: I noticed the same about the Instruments forum (before I was banned :rolleyes:) but there's a snob-factor that I'd hate to see take hold here. The focus should be on getting the most from the gear you have, not dismissing it because it's comparatively cheap.

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

The focus of the forum today is entirely professionally-driven, with industry experts helping out industry experts or, at the very least, dedicated amateurs with 'prosumer' kit. The number of regulars who seem to operate studios in an even limited commercial capacity is astounding. The wealth of knowledge on show is pretty incredible to behold (although at times the discussion understandably degenerates into base lusting after gear porn!).

The focus of the forum is entirely in the hands of the posters. The nature of a Forum is, as has been said repeatedly , once you keep within the Charter anything goes.

Now this wasn't always the case. In the days of yore, we had those loveable chaps who wanted to know why the CD they cut with a cracked version of Cubase SX3 and the line-in on their laptop didn't sound as loud as Satannica's new album. What was the best rap-mic for under €50, and why did our tone suffer when we plugged guitars straight into our mixers? What the hell is MIDI, and why does it sound so fake? Why can't I mix with headphones? Etc etc etc...

Any of those questions would be answered now, if they're being asked.

People progress, perhaps those posters have now developed to an Un Cracked Version of Cubase?

I would think that there's a lot less BS and plainly incorrect info being offered on here these days than when I joined a year ago.

If anyone chimes in with nonsense they can expect to get smacked down.

That makes for a healthier and more useful forum. Democracy in action.

To tell ya the truth lads, I miss these guys! It's not like they don't drop in from time to time, but it seems when they do, they're told that to cut a demo, they need the latest Macbook, a bunch of vintage german-made mics and KRK VXT8s (or the equivalent!). Conscious efforts are made to downplay the benefits of home recording and commercially-operated project studios are championed instead.

They're welcome to post. I see what you're saying regarding 'latest Macbook etc' but the first questions I'll always ask is 'What do you want to do, how much do you want to spend' - there are times when to do X you must spend Y.

People looking for constructive feedback on mixes (I'm referring solely to myself here, as undoubtedly the most amateur of all who post regularly) have them dismissed as weak or even 'unlistenable'.

Ah Jaysus you're not still on about that are you? What if something is plainly 'weak or unlistenable '?

I said I was sorry for taking the pizz and offered my advice - which you then rejected.
If you ask myself or SRat, or Tweeky or WoodsDenis or others our opinions the likelihood is that you will get it , straight and unvarnished.

I believe that we need to reasess the objectives of the forum; does it exist to serve as one great big Boys Club, a social outlet for those whose Pro Tools rig resembles NASA mission control? Or does it cater for the needs of the newbie, the home-recordist, who has limited time, funds, and know-how but wants to cut a few demos for his band? Because right now, I don't think the forum can cater for the needs of both.

The chink in your argument is that the only boys who can answer a question are people with answers. You seem to forget that many of us have come up the same way, in my case 4 track cassette.
I and others know some answers (and don't know others) because we can relate to many issues and have found our ways around them.

Perhaps the mods could look into this; I don't think I'm imagining this, and it's certainly not a case of "fighting teh powah". Other forums (like photography and video games) contain sub-forums with a different focus to the mainstream forum, or use stickies to convey a different sort of information to a more casual user. I think it may be time for a change.

There was no interest in this mid last year but perhaps there is now?

Rockshamrover

"I appreciate what you're saying. And if I was a little better at music production myself, I'd not only be content with the way things are, I'd probably be telling the newbs to hit the road!"

Telepaul I don't think anybody stays at the same level. Different people learn at different speeds. I am on here less than a year, I think, but I never got the feeling that I was an annoyance or was asking stupid questions (even though I probably was)

There will always be new people coming along and over time, they will be giving advise to the next batch of newbies.

5 years from now we could be the pros. That's a scary thought.:eek:

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

5 years from now we could be the pros.

5 years from now none of us might be!

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

The focus of the forum is entirely in the hands of the posters. The nature of a Forum is, as has been said repeatedly , once you keep within the Charter anything goes.

I think you'd get more through traffic - and thus more posters whos direction the forum would be in the hands of - if you catered for a broader level of interest.

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Any of those questions would be answered now, if they're being asked.

There's a definite muddying of the waters.

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I would think that there's a lot less BS and plainly incorrect info being offered on here these days than when I joined a year ago.

Sorry, but there's easily more BS - there are varying degrees of misinformation. Suggesting you buy a 12 year old with no music-production expertise a Macbook for that explicit purpose is one of them. Sorry to cite that example again, but it springs to mind as a recent one.

PaulBrewer wrote: »

They're welcome to post. I see what you're saying regarding 'latest Macbook etc' but the first questions I'll always ask is 'What do you want to do, how much do you want to spend' - there are times when to do X you must spend Y

And there are times when to do X you must spend X. You know better than anyone that the wide range of hardware and software products represent different means to the same end; maybe being in the retail side of things has provided you with a unique perspective...for example, when I asked which kick drum mcis you sold, you told me the usual AKGD112 etc, but told me not to bother with anything cheaper as they weren't worth it. I'm not really suggesting a conflict of interests on your part (though it's been mentioned in the past by other posters) but what I'm saying is that your position as a pro-audio retailer will no doubt have skewered your take on certain brands/products. Some of us just wanna have fun on a limited budget.

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Ah Jaysus you're not still on about that are you? What if something is plainly 'weak or unlistenable '?
I said I was sorry for taking the pizz and offered my advice - which you then rejected. If you ask myself or SRat, or Tweeky or WoodsDenis or others our opinions the likelihood is that you will get it , straight and unvarnished.

Well what's 'weak' or 'unlistenable' for someone who's recorded the Blizzards might sound great to someone who listens to their tunes in the car on the way to work. This is really the crux of my argument, that the forum is driven from a particular perspective which propagates a certain attitude: that not meeting a certain standard is unacceptable. And the fact that I had to tell you - in no uncertain terms - to **** off before you saw anything wrong with your attitude is, of itself, quite telling.

PaulBrewer wrote: »

The chink in your argument is that the only boys who can answer a question are people with answers. You seem to forget that many of us have come up the same way, in my case 4 track cassette.
I and others know some answers (and don't know others) because we can relate to many issues and have found our ways around them.

I've no problem with you discussing specific and expert-oriented issues with the likes of Studiorat et al. But I would argue that those who currently operate a modest set-up are in a far better position to advise newcomers on similar matters; when was the last time you recorded on a four track cassette? For me it was yesterday.

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

I think you'd get more through traffic - and thus more posters whos direction the forum would be in the hands of - if you catered for a broader level of interest.




There's a definite muddying of the waters.



Sorry, but there's easily more BS - there are varying degrees of misinformation. Suggesting you buy a 12 year old with no music-production expertise a Macbook for that explicit purpose is one of them. Sorry to cite that example again, but it springs to mind as a recent one.



And there are times when to do X you must spend X. You know better than anyone that the wide range of hardware and software products represent different means to the same end; maybe being in the retail side of things has provided you with a unique perspective...for example, when I asked which kick drum mcis you sold, you told me the usual AKGD112 etc, but told me not to bother with anything cheaper as they weren't worth it. I'm not really suggesting a conflict of interests on your part (though it's been mentioned in the past by other posters) but what I'm saying is that your position as a pro-audio retailer will no doubt have skewered your take on certain brands/products. Some of us just wanna have fun on a limited budget.




Well what's 'weak' or 'unlistenable' for someone who's recorded the Blizzards might sound great to someone who listens to their tunes in the car on the way to work. This is really the crux of my argument, that the forum is driven from a particular perspective which propagates a certain attitude: that not meeting a certain standard is unacceptable. And the fact that I had to tell you - in no uncertain terms - to **** off before you saw anything wrong with your attitude is, of itself, quite telling.




I've no problem with you discussing specific and expert-oriented issues with the likes of Studiorat et al. But I would argue that those who currently operate a modest set-up are in a far better position to advise newcomers on similar matters; when was the last time you recorded on a four track cassette? For me it was yesterday.

Ah so this is about you and me?

frobisher

Let's keep it civil and non-personal lads. It'd be a shame for a valid discussion to degrade and end up getting locked. Focus on the posts, not the poster :cool:

I've seen this forum swing in many directions, it's an organic thing. Problems come and then they go. More pros have come on board over the last while, whether this is a good or a bad thing is irrelevant. The forum dictates it's own centre of gravity and it's that simple. I don't think there is any cynical attempt by any groups to change this place. I certainly hope there isn't. It's just doing it's own thing and changing over time.

Extrapolate both views and you end up with 2 choices; split the forum or leave it. If the forum needs to be split it will become clear that it does. I have no doubt that some individuals may like it split but I haven't seen the forum move in that direction as a whole. Until that changes people should shape the forum the old fashioned way, by posting threads. Simple as a sine wave :-)

studiorat

TelePaul wrote: »

I've no problem with you discussing specific and expert-oriented issues with the likes of Studiorat et al. But I would argue that those who currently operate a modest set-up are in a far better position to advise newcomers on similar matters; when was the last time you recorded on a four track cassette? For me it was yesterday.

Moi? I don't see any difference between recording at home or recording in a studio. There's no difference between recording on a four track and recording on a full on Pro rig.
Good engineering and production is about experience. Some obviously have more than others. As for the boys network a lot of the posters I'd know personally are because the music scene is relatively small.


Did I suggest the Mac Book for the 12 year old? Cool idea! Be great for doing school work as well as music I'd reckon, another reason I suggested it. I was going to I can't remember if I did or not. Would last the kid till he was nearly 18. Especially since the chap did suggest spending a few bob and garage band rocks. Nothing to do with snobbery the advice was on experience.

As for the issues of what sounds good to some and not others. I think as soon as you break the personal relationship with the music quality begins to be an issue. That's to say your mates demo might sound good to you but when you have no relationship with the music or the musician, recording quality begins to be a more important issue.
I think the forum should stay as it is.

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

Simple as a sine wave :-)

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Ah so this is about you and me?

You wish mate! It's nothing as simple as that. Like I said, the way things are now isn't better or worse per-se...just different. I'm just talking about getting a sense of balance.

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

You wish mate! It's nothing as simple as that. Like I said, the way things are now isn't better or worse per-se...just different. I'm just talking about getting a sense of balance.

That's fine so - Frob has dealt with the balance point i.e. The Forum Balances itself.

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

That's fine so - Frob has dealt with the balance point i.e. The Forum Balances itself.

Well I guess this thread has run its course so. Feel free to lock.

frobisher

TelePaul wrote: »

Well I guess this thread has run its course so. Feel free to lock.

Threads only get locked to prevent messing. Some mods on other forums do it for other reasons. But that's because they are 15 year old spotty teenagers drunk on power :P

seannash

i think if someone got feedback that there music was weak they should just take it on the chin and maybe ask how they can improve.there shouldnt be a different class of standards(like its okay for something recorded in your garage.it should be put up against professional tracks for comparison).
if all you want is people to tell you your songs are fantasticly awesome play em to your mam.if you want honest feedback take the criticism like a man as well as the praise.
toughen up,this is the world of the interweb

to chime in on the whole topic i do think that theres a decent balance of budget and pro producers on here and the advice cover boths spectrums i think.honestly if someone asked me about a computer id recommend a macbook regardless of what it would be used for or what age the person is.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

i think i may be involved here .

telepaul pm'd me a track to listen to and get feedback on last week or so

I gave him my opinion which was - as far as im concerned - some tough love
I did state that some elements were unlistenable ( to my ears - harsh strident guitars and cymbals ) and weak ( drum mix )

and made suggestions as to how it could be improved .
and these were positive.

no offense intended , just my own limited advice as to how i heard it

if i pm'd a track to someone asking for a critiq i would be prepared for the worst , ( i have done and been slaughtered many times - i dust myself down , thank the person for the response and figure out how to fix the problems )

if you cant take this - i dont know how else to help .
i may come across as ruthless, but no one improves without honest opinions.


i have no agenda other than hearing good tunes and recordings - and learning to create them .


i think the forum is fine , and the advice great ( and a good laugh too ) .

but i think you need to have the best gear you can afford , and maximise your talents because peoples musical and recording expectations are alot higher than years ago , people listen on head phones alot these days
and the mix has to be smooth and full.

oh , and although i am not an amateur musician , i am a complete amateur studio dude
but i do have relentless focus and desire to get better at it .

frobisher

DaDumTish wrote: »

I did state that some elements were unlistenable ( to my ears - harsh strident guitars and cymbals ) and weak ( drum mix )

Ouch!

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

Ouch!

Send DaDum your track Frob ..:rolleyes:

i57dwun4yb1pt8

ouch as in a tough comment ?

im not subtle i guess , i can remember though doing a dep weekend with a blues guiatarist , and being told my timing bad and playing was too basic , and i couldnt shuffle .

so i locked meself a way for a year and practised my hole off until all elements were fixed -

took it as a challenge and never looked back , and if i ever see the guy again i will thank him .

i57dwun4yb1pt8

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Send DaDum your track Frob ..:rolleyes:

is it on his myspace ? im there at the moment , thetracks up there are well done - i like the live feel and vibe , natural sound ,

good job

TelePaul

frobisher wrote: »

Ouch!

Well at the risk of trivialising my argument, I'd be inclined to agree.

fitz

One thing I've learned over the years: if you're going to ask for feedback on something, be prepared for the worst. If you're going to take it to heart, and get deflated every time someone knocks your work, you'll end up never showing anyone anything.

Take all criticism, positive and negative, assess it, and take from it what you agree with or can see the reasoning behind. Some criticism is based on taste...that's always gonna be subjective cause not everyone likes the same things.

But criticism of quality of recording or performance is not something that should be ignored. If you're asking for feedback it means you want to learn something from it, to improve. Here's the rub; most people won't include what they like about it along with their criticism, but there's a reason for that too. If someone listens to something and they're hearing something that they glaringly don't like, they'll turn it off. It doesn't matter how good something is potentially, it only matters what people are actually hearing. Adress what people are negative about...each time you'll strip back a layer of what makes people criticise it negatively. If, in the end, they don't dig it, you're down to taste. That's where you want to be.

Get everything sounding as good as you can so that peoples opinion of your work is solely a matter of taste, and I think you've done all you can.

TelePaul

fitz wrote: »

One thing I've learned over the years: if you're going to ask for feedback on something, be prepared for the worst. If you're going to take it to heart, and get deflated every time someone knocks your work, you'll end up never showing anyone anything.

Take all criticism, positive and negative, assess it, and take from it what you agree with or can see the reasoning behind. Some criticism is based on taste...that's always gonna be subjective cause not everyone likes the same things.

But criticism of quality of recording or performance is not something that should be ignored. If you're asking for feedback it means you want to learn something from it, to improve. Here's the rub; most people won't include what they like about it along with their criticism, but there's a reason for that too. If someone listens to something and they're hearing something that they glaringly don't like, they'll turn it off. It doesn't matter how good something is potentially, it only matters what people are actually hearing. Adress what people are negative about...each time you'll strip back a layer of what makes people criticise it negatively. If, in the end, they don't dig it, you're down to taste. That's where you want to be.

Get everything sounding as good as you can so that peoples opinion of your work is solely a matter of taste, and I think you've done all you can.

Valid points, but there's a huge difference between critique and insult. And the original point of this thread seems to have been glossed over.

fitz

My point is that you shouldn't take insult when it isn't intended. In any area, people at the top of the game can be very blunt in their criticism. Don't take it personally.

The original point of the thread, that the newbs/amateurs are not the focus of the forum, or are in some way dismissed...I have to disagree with. We regularly see a huge variety of users at different levels supported by users at different levels on this forum, and on the whole, it works well.

You're always gonna have people championing studios over home recording. People highlighting that extra investment in nice gear or studio time will give better results doesn't mean that people won't get their answers.

I think, reading between the lines here, you're view on things is a little unfair.

As a music producer and home recordist, I'll never aim for "good for a home recording", I'll always be striving for a good sounding record in the international commercial market. If you're serious about production, anything less than this attitude is wasting your own time. If you're doing it as a hobby, then you don't have to meet these standards...you're doing it for no-one but yourself.

I've just finished an album that I recorded myself, and had mixed and mastered by professionals. I had demo mixes of all the songs from an early stage, but I didn't make them public, nor will I, because I want people to hear the record at its best. You don't get a second chance at a first impression. I may at some point do remixes and put them up here to get feedback so that I can learn where I'm going wrong. If someone says it's unlistenable, I might be a little hurt, but at the end of the day, my initial reaction if someone said something like that would be: "what makes it unlistenable, and how do I fix that?"

I think you've taken some blunt feedback personally, which we all do from time to time. But don't hold peoples standards against them, and don't let that experience colour your view of how the forum works/doesn't. Impartial critique is invaluable, especially from people who represent a good barometer of what "industry" heads will think upon listening.

Chin-up dude. Why not put up a track and ask for people to offer ideas on how to improve the mix? Try and direct what peoples responses will be by how you ask for their involvement...

Rockshamrover

fitz, that's a very good response.

Would it help if the person specifies what they want feedback on or if negative feedback could be pmd? It probably defeats the purpose of getting feedback.

But then again it may help those in the early stages who may want some input but may feel very exposed if they get some bad reviews in public.

The fact that there are people on here who are willing to lend an ear and their expertise to those of us who are a few rungs down the ladder is brilliant. I hope to one day avail of this service myself.

seannash

what age are people on this forum.honestly if you get feedback and its bad dont sit and pout,fix your track.
bad feedback should not be pm,d because if im reading someones review and it mentions faults in the recording ill also try and listen for them as a way to train my own ears about things i need to spot in a mix.
cant all be sweetness and nice in public then have the harsh reviews in your inbox

i57dwun4yb1pt8

TelePaul wrote: »

Well at the risk of trivialising my argument, I'd be inclined to agree.

are you taking the fcuking p1ss?
YOU PM'D ME FOR A CRITIC OF THE TRACK !
and now you accuse me of insults , i dont even know you , why would I want to insult you ?

lets have a look shall we ??

---

Drums mix...

---

Hey man, was wonderng if you could listen to the drums in a mix for me?
I hsd to use Drummagog for he snare,
it seemed in the original track the wires just weren't being caught
by the snare mic, but the rest sound good.
Not sure about the compression I used though!

Anyways, it's at www.soundclick.com/glasshouserecordings
and the song is 'Tara Remix' - only if ya get the chance.

Cheers,
Paul

---

my answer

---

Paul, honest opinion,

over all mix is reverby and thin and harsh - lead guitar piercing ,
cymbals too bright - pretty unlistenable to be honest .

the drum should be shot for overplaying
( if its a real drummer )

drums are too low , cant hear kik , snare is weedy , toms are brittle
bass guitar is weedy , cymbals to bright

overall mix is lacking low end and is brittle and harsh in the hi end.

needs a lot of work , but it could be great if mixed with the focus on drums bass and vocals instead of guitars.

granted im a begginner , but I base all mixes around drum / bass vocals first ,
getting them solid and grooving .

---

so, I will let the others here decide if I was insulting you


i had another few listens and its not as thin as i stated , but the harshness is stil lthere on guitars, and the drums still weak.

Rockshamrover

Hi Sean,

Just thought it would be an idea for people to have some control of how things get reviewed. A little paddling pool before they go in at the deep end.:D

Thanks

PaulBrewer

DaDumTish wrote: »

are you taking the fcuking p1ss?

Tony, calm down.

TP is entitled to feel insulted if he wants, he could just as easily been talking about SRat's or my comments.

You charging in is no addition to the discussion, you'd swear he insulted yer ma or something.

Back on Topic Boys .... or I'll take TP's advice and lock.

DamagedTrax

DaDumTish wrote: »

are you taking the fcuking p1ss?
YOU PM'D ME FOR A CRITIC OF THE TRACK !
and now you accuse me of insults , i dont even know you , why would I want to insult you ?

lets have a look shall we ??

---

Drums mix...

---

Hey man, was wonderng if you could listen to the drums in a mix for me?
I hsd to use Drummagog for he snare,
it seemed in the original track the wires just weren't being caught
by the snare mic, but the rest sound good.
Not sure about the compression I used though!

Anyways, it's at www.soundclick.com/glasshouserecordings
and the song is 'Tara Remix' - only if ya get the chance.

Cheers,
Paul

---

my answer

---

Paul, honest opinion,

over all mix is reverby and thin and harsh - lead guitar piercing ,
cymbals too bright - pretty unlistenable to be honest .

the drum should be shot for overplaying
( if its a real drummer )

drums are too low , cant hear kik , snare is weedy , toms are brittle
bass guitar is weedy , cymbals to bright

overall mix is lacking low end and is brittle and harsh in the hi end.

needs a lot of work , but it could be great if mixed with the focus on drums bass and vocals instead of guitars.

granted im a begginner , but I base all mixes around drum / bass vocals first ,
getting them solid and grooving .

---

so, I will let the others here decide if I was insulting you


i had another few listens and its not as thin as i stated , but the harshness is stil lthere on guitars, and the drums still weak.

sorry but if that was someone giving me advice i'd be thanking them for pointing things out to me and helping me improve not slating them.

fair play dadumtish for being honest about what you heard.

edit: sorry paul.. was typing at same time as you.

fitz

Airing PM's without consulting the people who sent them isn't really something that should be done, it's a boards.ie no-no, but I'll leave the modding to the mods.

I don't think splitting out negative comments into PM's is any use; as Tish said...no-one else benefits.

I think people need to accept that they're going to get negative feedback as often as positive, if not more-so. Thicken the old skin, and if someone comes back with a negative comment without a suggestion as to how to improve it, respond and ask for suggestions! Taking negative comments personally and saying nothing isn't gonna do you any favours. You've gotta turn it around yourself, make the effort. No-one is gonna do it for you.

fitz

Btw, I listened to the track, and I disagree with several elements of Tish's assessment of the mix. I also don't think any of it is "unlistenable." It's certainly harsh, but it's not hissing all over the place or distorting.

I'd have more issue with the performances than I would with the mix...the mix sounds like it can definitely get to where it needs to be, but there are timing issues in the performances that will still stand out and hold the track back from being as good as it can be.

That's another thing to keep in mind: getting feedback from a narrow group, or even one person, can be misleading, and result in you going in directions that you wouldn't go in if given an overall consensus by a larger group.

DamagedTrax

fitz wrote: »

That's another thing to keep in mind: getting feedback from a narrow group, or even one person, can be misleading, and result in you going in directions that you wouldn't go in if given an overall consensus by a larger group.

exactly.. best asking on forums and get a wider range of views.

TelePaul

DaDumTish wrote: »

are you taking the fcuking p1ss?
YOU PM'D ME FOR A CRITIC OF THE TRACK !
and now you accuse me of insults , i dont even know you , why would I want to insult you ?

I was quoting Frob, who was quoting you.

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Tony, calm down.

You guys and your first-name terms!!!

PaulBrewer wrote: »

TP is entitled to feel insulted if he wants, he could just as easily been talking about SRat's or my comments.

I was echoing Frob's "Ouch" sentiment, but I did concede that doin so may serve to trivialise the argument. It seemed it has.

PaulBrewer wrote: »

You charging in is no addition to the discussion, you'd swear he insulted yer ma or something.

There's still time for ma-insulting!

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Back on Topic Boys .... or I'll take TP's advice and lock.

Like I said, the point of this thread got buried somewhere around page 1. Moreover, posting from PMs isn't really cool; I linked to DaDumTish because he had offered drums advice - via PM - after another critique.

TelePaul

DaDumTish wrote: »

I had another few listens and its not as thin as i stated , but the harshness is stil lthere on guitars, and the drums still weak.

Why the change of mind?

DamagedTrax

TelePaul wrote: »

There's still time for ma-insulting!

your ma.

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

Like I said, the point of this thread got buried somewhere around page 1. .

Best Lock her up so.