Hard shoulder

Abstar

Hey guys 'n gals.

Love this forum! Just learning to drive and sometimes it feels like I'm the only person on the roads not 100% sure of what I'm doing but glad to see there are so many newbies out there! :P

Quick question about the hard shoulder thingy(!) - the stretch of (National) road I usually drive on is a fairly new one with fairly wide lanes (almost the width of 2 cars) and a hard shoulder. Speed limit of 100, I usually like to tip along at a healthy 75. Generally I keep quite close to the inside (yellow, hard shoulder) line to make it easier for anyone who so wishes, to overtake me. Now - older sister (17 yrs driving experience) reckons that if someone is close behind, I should pull over the hard shoulder line and allow cars behind me to overtake without needing to pull out onto lane for oncoming traffic. Dad (with like 1000 years accident-free (touch wood) driving) reckons that this would be bad practice and that the hard shoulder is reserved for people who need to stop etc.

Anyone have any opinions as to what's right/less right/wrong in such a situation?

brian076

Your sister is right, it's perfectly ok to go into the hard shoulder briefly if you need to let someone past.

Abstar

Thanks for the reply Brian076.

I guess I knew that there's nothing preventing one pulling in momentarily if someone is right on your tail and clearly wants to overtake, but what my sister seemed to be driving (:D) at is that I should be driving along in there, if I'm "only" going to be doing about 75 kph. (Though I'll admit I didn't make that clear in the earlier post )

brian076

No she's wrong there, the hard shoulder should only be used either briefly to let someone past or if you've broken down, otherwise it should be kept clear for emergency vehicles.

Burtchaell

Yes you can't drive constantly in it. Never got hassle for letting someone past though. Just make sure you check its clear first.lol

Abstar

Cheers for that guys.

Tony Broke

Why are you driving 75km/h on a 100km/h road?

That kinda behaviour is very dangerous!!!

Your putting yourself and other motorists in huge danger by doing that.Not trying to be smart or anything, but if you dont feel safe driving at 100kmh on a main road, then you shouldn't be on it.

You cant just drive 75km/h on a national road just because you like it, sure if that was the case I would drive 160km/h all the time.

Abstar

Tony Broke wrote: »

Why are you driving 75km/h on a 100km/h road?

That kinda behaviour is very dangerous!!!

Your putting yourself and other motorists in huge danger by doing that.Not trying to be smart or anything, but if you dont feel safe driving at 100kmh on a main road, then you shouldn't be on it.

You cant just drive 75km/h on a national road just because you like it, sure if that was the case I would drive 160km/h all the time.

Hmmm. How foolish of me. I'd no idea I was being so reckless. Who'd have thought that speed LIMITS are actually both the minimum AND maximum acceptable speed. :rolleyes:

ardmacha

What are you driving 75kmh on a 100kmh road?

That kinda behaviour is very dangerous!!!

You don't know that and it is outright dangerous of you to say so. The speed limit is not a target and there are hundreds of km of roads with a 100kph limit where driving at more than 75kph would be outright dangerous.

It is courteous to stop and let people go by but I don't think the OP should be driving for long periods in the hard shoulder though. Probably better to practice at quiet times.

Tony Broke

Travelling 75km/h on a modern national road is dangerous, everyone is going to be overtaken you, some will even take risks to do it.Your only causing danger for yourself by driving so slow.

Everyone on that road will be travelling between 90km/h - 120km/h, how can you not see the danger?

Tony Broke

ardmacha wrote: »

You don't know that and it is outright dangerous of you to say so. The speed limit is not a target and there are hundreds of km of roads with a 100kph limit where driving at more than 75kph would be outright dangerous.

It is courteous to stop and let people go by but I don't think the OP should be driving for long periods in the hard shoulder though. Probably better to practice at quiet times.

She said it was a modern national road!!!

You dont travel 75km/h on that, of course its fine to travel at those speeds on some of the older crap roads, your only asking for trouble by doing it on a decent one.Your right you dont drive on the hard shoulder, you pull in to let others pass or stop for a short period of time.

Abstar

Tony Broke wrote: »

Travelling 75km/h on a modern national road is dangerous, everyone is going to be overtaken you, some will even take risks to do it.Your only causing danger for yourself by driving so slow.

Everyone on that road will be travelling between 90km/h - 120km/h, how can you not see the danger?

Firstly the speed limit is 100km - no-one should be doing 120 km.
Secondly, as I've already pointed out in the OP, the lanes are wide - 2 cars can fit side by side if necessary or if one failed to pull over to let someone pass. I try to be a courteous driver at all times and am ever-conscious that I may be delaying someone so I do pull aside to let people through. The point of this thread was to find out for certain what the rule regarding the hard-shoulder is.
Thirdly not "everyone" overtakes me. Not everyone is in a hurry and I don't drive in peak times. There are plenty of people who drive at a slower pace.
Finally I would add that 75 would be the minimum that I do - it varies, usually upto about 88/90. However, as I'm merely learning, I feel that I would be "causing far more danger" to myself and others if I were to drive at 100kmph just because someone on an internet forum thinks people behind me might be in a hurry and endanger themselves for the sake of a few minutes.
:rolleyes:

Tony Broke

What road is it?

Im only trying to help you know :rolleyes:

Anyway you will understand soon enough.

Burtchaell

75 is a bit slow but seeing as HGV speed limits are 80 on any road then I dont really see a problem with it. Just let people past when you can. There is nothing at all wrong with driving slow. Especially as a learner. After all "Speed Kills" Drive at what your comfortable with because otherwise you are likely to make mistakes. High speed mistakes are not cool:pac:

Alanstrainor

Burtchaell wrote: »

There is nothing at all wrong with driving slow. Especially as a learner. After all "Speed Kills":pac:

This is not universally true. and is a very common misconception and leads to many people failing their tests under "progress". Provided the conditions were suitable, getting up to speed would be expected, not necessarily 100km/h but certainly 85/90km/h.
An extreme example of what people would be marked for under progress would be traveling at a constant 40km/h in a 50km/h zone when conditions would allow for 50. Progress would also be things like speed moving off from a stop, whether it be a junction etc, you are expected to keep up with traffic, obviously without breaking any speed limits.

Beau x1

I'm still learning to drive so don't take my opinion seriously but I think 75km/h on a 100km/h road is just a tad too low to be doing. I mean, I'm sure you're capable of controlling the car under faster conditions but like Tony said, it's just inviting people to unecessarily overtake you.

Wishbone Ash

Tony Broke wrote: »

Everyone on that road will be travelling between 90km/h - 120km/h, how can you not see the danger?

Everyone??? Regardless of the posted speed limit.........

Mopeds are legally limited to 45kph.

Double deck buses or buses with standing passengers are legally limited to 65kph.

Vehicles towing another vehicle are limited to 65kph.

Trucks, heavy vans and single deck buses and any vehicles towing a trailer are legally limited to 80kph.

Many tractors and other types of work vehicles are physically incapable of exceeding 40kph.

All these vehicles (with appropriate tax/insurance/DOE etc.) are legally entitled to use national primary (non-motorway) routes.

Burtchaell

Well within reason. I was talking about the subject at hand being a national primary routeway. I know you can be marked down for going too slow but 40kmph can hardly be classed as speed. I was trying to get the same point across that Wishbone Ash said perfectly. Just because the speed is 100 does not mean you are legally entitled to do it or have to do it. Im not a fan of trying to overtake extremely slow drivers but if they pull in and leave you past whats the problem. The OP is a brand new driver its not like they are going to drive like that forever once they gain some experience...

challengemaster

Seems a bit slow to me too alright. Is there any justifiable reason for not doing the speed limit or near enough to it?

cooperla

Abstar wrote: »

Speed limit of 100, I usually like to tip along at a healthy 75.

OP, this is completely acceptable. I believe there is a minimum speed limit but at 75 you'd be well over it.

If you are a slow moving car in traffic it is considered good manners to briefly move into the hard shoulder to allow others to pass.

Keep it up. Drivers who have manners on the road are a rare breed these days:)

timmywex

cooperla wrote: »

OP, this is completely acceptable. I believe there is a minimum speed limit but at 75 you'd be well over it.

If you are a slow moving car in traffic it is considered good manners to briefly move into the hard shoulder to allow others to pass.

Keep it up. Drivers who have manners on the road are a rare breed these days:)

There is no minimum speed limit however if you are going too slow expect to be pulled over by the gardai, could be classed as incordierate driving or even dangerous driving

fiona-f

While there is no minimum, the rules of the road do say that "in normal road and traffic conditions, keep up with the pace of the traffic flow while obeying the speed limit. While you must keep a safe distance away from the vehicle in front, you should not drive so slowly that your vehicle unnecessarily blocks other road users. If you drive too slowly, you risk frustrating other drivers, which could lead to dangerous overtaking."
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/speed-limits/speed-limits_2-second-rule.html

Maybe for the time being you could practice somewhere less likely to cause hassle for other drivers, like an industrial estate or similar, until you are more confident?

On your specific question of pulling all the way into the hard shoulder to allow others to pass, again the wonderful rules of the road website says "This road contains a hard shoulder, which is normally only for pedestrians and cyclists. If a driver wants to allow a vehicle behind them to overtake, they may pull in to the hard shoulder briefly as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are already using it and no junctions or entrances are nearby. Different rules exist for hard shoulders on motorways."
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-signs-road-markings/road-markings.html So your sister is right that you can move in while being overtaken but you definitely should not treat it as a "learner lane" and drive in it all the time! Personally though, when first learning to drive I would have found switching in and out of the hard shoulder very stressful, as you need to be very careful with observations, mirrors, etc as you move in and back out from it. Which is not easy if you're not yet confident about the basics!

Would you consider taking a set of lessons with a recommended instructor - he/she can clear up any confusion that you may be getting from your dad and sister, and will know the most up-to-date practices.

Wishbone Ash

cooperla wrote: »

I believe there is a minimum speed limit

There is no minimum speed limit on any road. How could it be enforced?

Even on a motorway,although a vehicle must be capable of travelling at 50kph, there is no legal minimum speed.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

brian076

Above is correct although you should always ensure that you maintain reasonable progress. Wasn't a farmer recently fined for not pulling his tractor over to let cars by? so even though there's no minimum limit you could be prosecuted for not showing due consideration to other road users. Doing 75kmh in a 100 zone would certainly not fall into this category.