Luas Track Laying in IFSC

pleba

Hi,

For the past 18 months or so I have watched the laying of the Luas track outside the Harbourmaster pub in the IFSC (turn left off Amiens Street just passed Connolly Station).

The road has been dug up, track laid down, re-dug up, other 'stuff' put uinder the ground, resurfaced, re-dug again etc etc etc. And there's still a big crater in the ground at that spot.

Does anyone know what is going on here and why they have dug it up so many times over the last 18 or so months?

Rockshamrover

Yeah, it's called wasting tax payers money. That stretch of track is going to cost millions (I don't know how many but probably tens of millions).

I cant see why they don't just put a new bus service in place. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper and a lot less disruptive.

Victor

pleba wrote: »

The road has been dug up, track laid down, re-dug up, other 'stuff' put uinder the ground, resurfaced, re-dug again etc etc etc. And there's still a big crater in the ground at that spot.

Not quite.

The first operation was to upgrade the bridge and they did that to a stage where they laid the track at the same time. Everything else has beena sequence of investigate, lay new services, connect services to existing buildings, excavate road, build formation, fit track, finish road surface.

Now, I don't think they have been as expeditious as they could have been, but a lot of track has gone down in the last two months.

pleba

Victor wrote: »

Not quite.

The first operation was to upgrade the bridge and they did that to a stage where they laid the track at the same time. Everything else has beena sequence of investigate, lay new services, connect services to existing buildings, excavate road, build formation, fit track, finish road surface.

I'm sure though the surface has been laid, then dug up again, then laid again. Is this not the case?

Victor

They may dig a trench, put in ducts, fill it in and then put in a neaby duct, but much of the surface is orignal (except those bits where its completely new).

thebman

Seems to be going on for literally years at this stage. Train was delayed a while back and I had to walk to Grand Canal and they were still working on it! :eek:

I was to say the least. It can't take that long to build anything. Any other country, it would have been done long ago, I'm convinced of that.

dowlingm

The financial services industry in the IFSC can lose millions for every minute they lose power or telecoms. We can only hope the piecemeal nature of the work is testament to how much care RPA's contractors are taking to ensure that doesn't happen.

Singer73

We still have a Financial Services industry?

dowlingm

the old style IFSC industry - plates on the door, networked computers and no people :eek:

WindSock

As far as I know, there were a lot of pipes layed down in the area that span back over the last century that weren't properly recorded. I am guessing they are coming onto a bit of trouble when they dig up an area that reads wrongly on thier map.

thebman

Doesn't really explain the one bit they've been working on constantly since I first walked past them (must be nearly two years ago now).

Its a few feet long. Makes no sense. They should be asked why its taking so long TBH.

Cuddlesworth

Victor wrote: »

They may dig a trench, put in ducts, fill it in and then put in a neaby duct, but much of the surface is original (except those bits where its completely new).

Well just at the entrance coming over the bridge.

They dug it up and reinforced it.
Laid the tracks and necessary cables.
Resurfaced the road.
Dug up the bridge again.
Dug up the laid tracks.
Further reinforced the bridge.
Installed ducting and cabling.
Laid the tracks.
Surfaced the area badly.
Dug it up.
Resurfaced it slightly better.

Currently they are back working on the area having dug it up again. At least they didn't rip up the tracks this time.

In case anybody's wondering, for over a year my window was right above the works and I have a history of civil construction projects. Actually I've been watching the same 30 metre stretch for just under two years.

That's pretty bad by anyone's standards.

paulm17781

I saw this carry on in Jervis st. when they were doing that line. Track laid then removed.

woodseb

it's a colossal waste of money. Its been going on outside my office for nearly two years with almost no progress

the first stop will be outside CHQ so that'll 3 stops within a few 100m of each other. it'll will be quicker for anybody to get off at busaras and walk to a lot of the ifsc

thebman

Sounds standard Irish. Why do you need a plan, sure we'll just go ahead and work out the problems as we run into them.

loyatemu

woodseb wrote: »

it's a colossal waste of money. Its been going on outside my office for nearly two years with almost no progress

the first stop will be outside CHQ so that'll 3 stops within a few 100m of each other. it'll will be quicker for anybody to get off at busaras and walk to a lot of the ifsc

aye - and the next one is at Mayor Squayor which is only another 2 minutes walk.

BrianD

woodseb wrote: »

it's a colossal waste of money. Its been going on outside my office for nearly two years with almost no progress

the first stop will be outside CHQ so that'll 3 stops within a few 100m of each other. it'll will be quicker for anybody to get off at busaras and walk to a lot of the ifsc

That's a strange logic. How would it be quicker? The stops are designed to be convenient to the travelling public and both Georges Dock (CHQ) and Mayor Square are logical destinations. Bear in mind that Georges Dock is the proposed site of the Abbey Theatre so in time it will become a busy destination. If I'm travelling from Tallaght it hardly makes sense to alight at Busaras and walk the 300m to Mayor Square.

It does seem to be slow progress down at the Amiens St. to Guild St stretch but I'd imagine that this is due to the relocation of the utilities and the narrow streets in that particular area. Most of the track is down between the Point Village and behind PWC.

pleba

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Well just at the entrance coming over the bridge.

They dug it up and reinforced it.
Laid the tracks and necessary cables.
Resurfaced the road.
Dug up the bridge again.
Dug up the laid tracks.
Further reinforced the bridge.
Installed ducting and cabling.
Laid the tracks.
Surfaced the area badly.
Dug it up.
Resurfaced it slightly better.

Yep this is why I started this thread. The fact that tracks were laid then dug up then laid again. And we wonder where the public money goes!
Maybe there are valid reasons for doing this, but surely "getting it right first time" is a motto that should be used more often.

Rockshamrover

woodseb wrote: »

it's a colossal waste of money. Its been going on outside my office for nearly two years with almost no progress

the first stop will be outside CHQ so that'll 3 stops within a few 100m of each other. it'll will be quicker for anybody to get off at busaras and walk to a lot of the ifsc

You are so right. Especially given the current financial climate. Dublin Bus have a couple of hundred spare buses that they have withdrawn from service to save money. 10 of these could be put on this route. The only cost would be the running costs as we already paid for these buses.

No doubt this route will not make money anyway given the number of people that can possibly use it and given the number of car park spaces in the IFSC.

I could, of course, be wrong:D

crocro

pleba wrote: »

And we wonder where the public money goes!

I presume this is a 3rd party fixed price contract so that any inefficiencies are at the contractor's cost rather than our cost.

Rockshamrover wrote:

No doubt this route will not make money anyway given the number of people that can possibly use it and given the number of car park spaces in the IFSC

The IFSC is a growing work and residential centre for 10s of thousands. There are far fewer parking spaces provided per head than in out-of-town or public sector offices. Most people use public transport to get to work in the IFSC. There is only one public car park that is too expensive for most workers and residents.

loyatemu

BrianD wrote: »

That's a strange logic. How would it be quicker? The stops are designed to be convenient to the travelling public and both Georges Dock (CHQ) and Mayor Square are logical destinations. Bear in mind that Georges Dock is the proposed site of the Abbey Theatre so in time it will become a busy destination. If I'm travelling from Tallaght it hardly makes sense to alight at Busaras and walk the 300m to Mayor Square.

I suppose it depends on whether the Point-bound trams also divert into connolly. Its been suggested on here that they will eventually run the service as Tallaght-Connolly, and Citywest-Point (with the latter not serving Connolly).

One stop in between CHQ and Mayor Square would have been sufficient though.

Bluetonic

crocro wrote: »

There is only one public car park that is too expensive for most workers and residents.

There at least two, Commons Street and Connolly Station. There is tons of free parking around the IFSC which bring 100s of cars into the area daily.

crocro

Bluetonic wrote: »

There at least two, Commons Street and Connolly Station. There is tons of free parking around the IFSC which bring 100s of cars into the area daily.

I never knew about that car park. Where is there free parking? Are the streets not all metered?

Bluetonic

crocro wrote: »

I never knew about that car park. Where is there free parking? Are the streets not all metered?

North Wall Quay, Upper Oriel Street, Seville Place, Upper Sherrif St (Guild Street side) are all free and are full daily as used by workers in the IFSC, you'd be lucky to get a spot most mornings after 8.30am

Upper Buckingham Street and Portland Row are others which are popular and free.

Rockshamrover

crocro wrote: »

I presume this is a 3rd party fixed price contract so that any inefficiencies are at the contractor's cost rather than our cost.

The IFSC is a growing work and residential centre for 10s of thousands. There are far fewer parking spaces provided per head than in out-of-town or public sector offices. Most people use public transport to get to work in the IFSC. There is only one public car park that is too expensive for most workers and residents.

Does anyone know how much this stretch of the Luas is going to cost? Can it still be justified now that the Celtic Tiger has lost it's teeth?

woodseb

Bluetonic wrote: »

There at least two, Commons Street and Connolly Station. There is tons of free parking around the IFSC which bring 100s of cars into the area daily.

if you take the docklands area all the way along the quays to the point there is plenty of free parking, not so much close to the IFSC but there is big car parks for staff under every office building

crocro

Rockshamrover wrote: »

Does anyone know how much this stretch of the Luas is going to cost? Can it still be justified now that the Celtic Tiger has lost it's teeth?

€54 million accordiong to this:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/luas-set-to-pull-up-outside-the-point-in-54m-plan-233555.html

The line is due to open next year. At this stage most of the work is done and contracts have been signed for the remainder so there would be no point in cancelling a project that we have to pay for anyway. In any case, the less viable public transport projects are those out-of-town. (luas to bray, luas to lucan, metro west etc)

Cuddlesworth

Bluetonic wrote: »

North Wall Quay, Upper Oriel Street, Seville Place, Upper Sherrif St (Guild Street side) are all free and are full daily as used by workers in the IFSC, you'd be lucky to get a spot most mornings after 8.30am

Upper Buckingham Street and Portland Row are others which are popular and free.

Honestly, you would be mad to park any cars on those streets for the day and expect them to not have their windows smashed in by the end.

andrewh5

thebman wrote: »

It can't take that long to build anything. Any other country, it would have been done long ago, I'm convinced of that.

Absolutely. Look at the farce that is the M50 for another example. Any other country -especially Germany - would have been working on it 24/7 to get it completed quickly.

dowlingm

Rockshamrover wrote: »

The only cost would be the running costs as we already paid for these buses.

Except the running costs - i.e. personnel - are the costs that always matter!

faceman

Just like the moaning that went on Harcourt Street when the Green Line went in, I bet no one will be moaning about the Luas when its up and running in the IFSC.

L1011

andrewh5 wrote: »

Absolutely. Look at the farce that is the M50 for another example. Any other country -especially Germany - would have been working on it 24/7 to get it completed quickly.

...

They ARE working on it 24/7. There is no way to complete it faster leaving two lanes open during rush hour.

woodseb

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Honestly, you would be mad to park any cars on those streets for the day and expect them to not have their windows smashed in by the end.

there's such a heavy garda presence around the area that its actually not that bad

Bluetonic

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Honestly, you would be mad to park any cars on those streets for the day and expect them to not have their windows smashed in by the end.

I park there daily since 2004, I bought my car brand new in 2007, before that had a three year old car and never once have I had any issues with the security of it.

Great to see that stereotyping is alive and well :rolleyes:

BrianD

loyatemu wrote: »

I suppose it depends on whether the Point-bound trams also divert into connolly. Its been suggested on here that they will eventually run the service as Tallaght-Connolly, and Citywest-Point (with the latter not serving Connolly).

One stop in between CHQ and Mayor Square would have been sufficient though.

My understanding is that trams will have either Connolly or The Point (without Connolly) as destinations.

While CHQ and Mayor SQ are relatively close together (when compared with other stops on the line), they are stops that will be in demand. CHQ for the Abbey and it also convenient for those who want to cross to the south quays via the footbridge.

Rockshamrover

dowlingm wrote: »

Except the running costs - i.e. personnel - are the costs that always matter!

Any system used will have running costs.

Will the new Abbey theatre have a car park?

mikemac

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Honestly, you would be mad to park any cars on those streets for the day and expect them to not have their windows smashed in by the end.

24 hour garda presence plus backup during the day, those plainclothes guys are there every day.

Possibly one of the safest places in the city to park your car.

AlekSmart

24 hour garda presence plus backup during the day, those plainclothes guys are there every day.

All to what end ?

To maintain public order ?

To protect private Cars ?

To satisfy Media interest ?

Why exactly is this Garda presence deemed necessary in this SMALL enclave of individuality ?
What will be the effects of Department of Justice Garda funding alterations on this "Operation" ?

Will there be an IFSC as we currently define it when Luas opens for business in 2010 ?
Will we have enough Electricity to propel the Trams in 2010 ?

Questions,Questions,Questions.......:o

Blackjack

AlekSmart wrote: »

All to what end ?

To maintain public order ?

To protect private Cars ?

To satisfy Media interest ?

Why exactly is this Garda presence deemed necessary in this SMALL enclave of individuality ?
What will be the effects of Department of Justice Garda funding alterations on this "Operation" ?

Will there be an IFSC as we currently define it when Luas opens for business in 2010 ?
Will we have enough Electricity to propel the Trams in 2010 ?

Questions,Questions,Questions.......:o

Garda presence is probably more to do with the Scumbags that were shooting each other in Broad daylight round that area a few years back.

spacetweek

Luas A1 = totally essential.

We're creating a densely built area down there. Most free parking will undoubtedly disappear over the next few years as the trend is moving away from that and allowing lots of car access to the area isn't justifiable with the Luas and the Docklands DART station on the way. As it is, the amount of car access the area will have post-A1 along the track right of way is still far too high. I would allow absolutely no driving in the central Mayor St corridor by 2015.

As for the messing about with rail that gets lifted again and again, not sure what's going on here - but the contractor bears the cost of correcting errors anyway. No public cost. Also the slow speed the line is constructed at is due to the sensitive nature of the area, with all the banks and their data requirements - there has to be absolutely zero down time. It would take just as long anywhere else - it's nothing to do with Ireland, it's a bank thing, and their hatred for any kind of disruption, recession or no.

As for buses, this is laughable. I remember a few years ago before work began the banks wanted them to extend the line using buses running on overhead electric lines. Nonsense. So people are expected to get off at Connolly and change to a new mode just to complete the last 400 metres of their journey? Who's gonna do that? Even with integrated ticketing, there's the time wastage factor.

There's a history of city centre interests complaining about the disruption caused by building projects, only to welcome the service with open arms afterwards. I'm thinking of Jervis and Harcourt St in particular.

Quint

woodseb wrote: »

the first stop will be outside CHQ so that'll 3 stops within a few 100m of each other. it'll will be quicker for anybody to get off at busaras and walk to a lot of the ifsc

It'll fit in perfectly with the rest of the Red Line then. I used to use it, but found that buses are far quicker. Seems to be a stop every 100m on that line