Multipack Beer

reverandkenjami

Was in a certain pub watching the match tonight and to my horror i was served a bottle which has on the back 'part of multi-pack not for resale'

Is it illegal for pubs/clubs to sell beer from Multi-Packs at full price?

Jack Bauer999

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Was in a certain pub watching the match tonight and to my horror i was served a bottle which has on the back 'part of multi-pack not for resale'

Is it illegal for pubs/clubs to sell beer from Multi-Packs at full price?

??? just curious as to why you were horrified?

its the exact same beer in a bottle from a multipack as in a normal bottle so it dosent effect you in any way at all.

FearDark

Im sure its the principle of the matter, they're charging you a fiver for something they get for a euro, id be pretty annoyed too.

Creamy Goodness

Jack Bauer999 wrote: »

??? just curious as to why you were horrified?

its the exact same beer in a bottle from a multipack as in a normal bottle so it dosent effect you in any way at all.

well it's cheaper for the publican to buy the multipacks so if he's selling them on at the same prices as normal it's pretty unfair.

reverandkenjami

Jack Bauer999 wrote: »

??? just curious as to why you were horrified?

its the exact same beer in a bottle from a multipack as in a normal bottle so it dosent effect you in any way at all.

So why different bottles for pubs then?? There's a reason it says not for resale! How would you feel going to Spar and your packet of Tayto said the above?

FearDark wrote: »

Im sure its the principle of the matter, they're charging you a fiver for something they get for a euro, id be pretty annoyed too.

Exactly!!

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

well it's cheaper for the publican to buy the multipacks so if he's selling them on at the same prices as normal it's pretty unfair.

I know its unfair, i was wondering is there anything to stop publicans doing this?

FearDark

reverandkenjami wrote: »

So why different bottles for pubs then??

Yeah, theyre "returns" bottles mostly, where the pub just pays for whats in the bottle, say to C+C in Cork and when the pub collects your empty bottles the bottles get sent back to Cork again where they are washed and refilled and sent to another pub, theres a difference in the bottles too, better thicker quality glass. Another thing, sometimes the stuff you get in these bottles tastes different to the stuff you get in the offie out of the cheaper bottles, not saying its any better or worse, just different, could be made in a different country.

Anyway, If yer payin a fiver a bottle id expect to get the proper bottle, jesus thats like openin yer own pub and sellin from a multipack, its just wrong.

Jack Bauer999

reverandkenjami wrote: »

So why different bottles for pubs then?? There's a reason it says not for resale! How would you feel going to Spar and your packet of Tayto said the above?



Exactly!!



I know its unfair, i was wondering is there anything to stop publicans doing this?

I didnt say the pubs were right for selling them.

And yes i have come across this in various shops a few times before mostly for crisps and for coke,
ive bought single cans of coke with the multipack writting on it in shops and didnt think twice about it because im getting the exact same product that i wanted for the same price that i was willing to pay anyway.

surely other people have seen this in shops too???

Thomas_S_Hunterson

I don't think the Not-for-resale label has any legal value. The right of the people to sell property is constitutionally protected.

Jack Bauer999

FearDark wrote: »

Yeah, theyre "returns" bottles mostly, where the pub just pays for whats in the bottle, say to C+C in Cork and when the pub collects your empty bottles the bottles get sent back to Cork again where they are washed and refilled and sent to another pub, theres a difference in the bottles too, better thicker quality glass. Another thing, sometimes the stuff you get in these bottles tastes different to the stuff you get in the offie out of the cheaper bottles, not saying its any better or worse, just different, could be made in a different country.

Anyway, If yer payin a fiver a bottle id expect to get the proper bottle, jesus thats like openin yer own pub and sellin from a multipack, its just wrong.

yes your correct, the pubs just get the 'normal' bottles cleaned and
re-filled. i would doubt the pub in question sell all thier bottles from
multipacks. more than likely they had a short supply of the drink the op
was having and just got multipacks in to keep it in stock.

also do pubs not pay much over a euro per bottle wholesale from the brewery so would there even be any profit from selling bottles from a multipack.

rubadub

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Was in a certain pub watching the match tonight and to my horror i was served a bottle which has on the back 'part of multi-pack not for resale'

To your horror!:rolleyes: FFS, sounds like you found a dead rat in the thing.

Sean_K wrote: »

I don't think the Not-for-resale label has any legal value. The right of the people to sell property is constitutionally protected.

This is correct, it has come up in other threads, people did contact the companies and they said nothing could be done.

Im sure its the principle of the matter, they're charging you a fiver for something they get for a euro, id be pretty annoyed too.

But this probably is the usual case if they can buy from the same wholesalers as other shops can....

How would you feel going to Spar and your packet of Tayto said the above?

If it was a bar I would have no problem, they might charge more if it was not from the pack. Crisps are a bit different since the mulitpacks seem to have less stringent weight control, i.e. the 20packs will wiegh on average 25g each. But in this case I would still not mind, I would just pick one which is overfilled.

the groutch

with some of these multipacks of beer, there can be slightly less in them than the normal ones
compare the volume to what's on their price list, if theya re different, then theres a major legal issue

rubadub

the groutch wrote: »

with some of these multipacks of beer, there can be slightly less in them than the normal ones
compare the volume to what's on their price list, if theya re different, then theres a major legal issue

I am not so sure there is an issue. I take it you mean those 300ml bottles of bud etc. If their sign says 330ml €5, and you just ask for "a bottle", then you have no real comeback if you get a 300ml. You would have to specifically ask for a 330ml bottle, and they might just say "we have none, only 300ml, take it or leave it".

They are not obliged to list all stuff on those lists which is stupid IMO, they should be forced to display prices on the taps and clearly on the fridges or up behind the bar like a chipper. These signs are usually hidden behind open doors or big bouncers.

Many bars will stock both types of heineken, and you usually have to ask to get the proper 5% one.

You're mad to buy longnecks in the first place!

tony1kenobi

When you pay for the beer could you then ask for it's 5 brothers that you have also paid for? Any legal stance from that perspective?

foggy_lad

rubadub wrote: »

I am not so sure there is an issue. I take it you mean those 300ml bottles of bud etc. If their sign says 330ml €5, and you just ask for "a bottle", then you have no real comeback if you get a 300ml. You would have to specifically ask for a 330ml bottle, and they might just say "we have none, only 300ml, take it or leave it".

They are not obliged to list all stuff on those lists which is stupid IMO, they should be forced to display prices on the taps and clearly on the fridges or up behind the bar like a chipper. These signs are usually hidden behind open doors or big bouncers.

Many bars will stock both types of heineken, and you usually have to ask to get the proper 5% one.

You're mad to buy longnecks in the first place!

afaik if they dont stock items which they have displayed on the 16 item price list they are breaking the law and they must list the size of bottles so having 330ml bottles of bud on the price list but selling 300ml bottles for the same price would be illegal

PCDave

Sent an email to the Irish Vintners having encountered the same thing, got the following reply from the chief executive:
"
I refer to your mail of April 14th in respect of purchases in xxxxx on Saturday night. First of all let me point out that there is absolutely nothing illegal in selling these bottles in the pub trade and it is incorrect to assume that these were necessarily bought in xxxxxxx or in any other supermarket. Most publicans are supplied with their bottled beer by local wholesalers and are dependent on what that local wholesaler actually supplies on the day. In many cases, the only product available to the local wholesaler is this multi-pack product. The problem generally is not either with the publican or the wholesaler but very often with the supplying brewery.

You say in your mail that it is possible to buy these bottles of Budweiser in supermarkets at a euro per bottle or less and this indeed can be true at times. Supermarkets have used alcohol as a loss leader to encourage footfall into the stores and then have a much broader range of products available to make up for this loss in margin. This is commonly referred to as below cost selling. Publicans cannot buy from their wholesalers at the kind of prices that some supermarkets retail at. Indeed one leading British supermarket has recently admitted increasing the price of other grocery products to compensate for their losses on alcohol. Unfortunately publicans have but alcohol to make a margin on. You might also consider when doing the comparison between the price in the supermarket and the price in the pub that if you went into the self same supermarket and bought a sirloin steak and you went to a restaurant and bought the self same sirloin steak you would pay a multiple for the steak in the restaurant as you do in the supermarket. The reason for this is obvious, there is a lot of value added and in the pub there are all the additional costs of labour, insurance, licensing, rates, water rates, entertainment costs, etc. It is not quite as simple as comparing the cost in a supermarket, which is subsidised by other products in the supermarket, and the cost in a pub.

I hope this helps to put some clarity into the issues you have raised"

MunsterCycling

Had you raised the issue of the 300ml bottle verses the 330ml on the price list, if so then the reply managed to bluster their way out of it and not answer the potentially only legal stumbling block that this practice would fall foul of the law with.

MC

rubadub

foggy_lad wrote: »

afaik if they dont stock items which they have displayed on the 16 item price list they are breaking the law and they must list the size of bottles so having 330ml bottles of bud on the price list but selling 300ml bottles for the same price would be illegal

I wouldn't be so certain. In effect you are saying if a pub legitimately runs out of any stock on the list they are breaking the law.

The pub could very well stock both 330ml and 300ml bottles, and leave it up to you to ask for a 330ml which is on the price list, now I know most asking for a "bottle", will expect the 330ml but it could be a sneaky way around it. Many pubs stock 5% and 4.3% heineken bottles and leave it up to the customer to ask for the 5% ones. And I see no reason why they could not charge the same price for both 330/300ml. I must start looking at those price lists again.

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Had you raised the issue of the 300ml bottle verses the 330ml on the price list

Neither the OP nor PCDave mentioned the 300ml issue. Also there could be some leeway on it, if you order a pint it is very rare that you get 568ml. And they can probably use the old E&OE copout.

PCDave

The reason I didn't mention the 300/330 cl issue was because I really didn't take any notice on the night so am unable to say!
I also paid €1.80 for a pint of tap water with a splash of mi-wadi orange in a pub in Dublin in the past few months, but that's another story!-it was to accompany my lunch!

jor el

They can charge the same for a 300ml and 330ml bottle if they like, there's nothing illegal about this. Just look at the price of 330ml bottles, pint bottles, pints and 500ml cans, the pricing is all over the place. However, if they are selling 300ml bottles, then they need to display these on the price list, and if they didn't, then this is illegal. It's not for the Vintners Association to make this decision.

I'm not surprised by the Vintners Association's reply, as they represent the interests of the Publicans, and will not be inclined to say they suspect one of their members to be doing something illegal.

As for selling the multipack bottles in the first place, this is probably a contractual issue between the Publican and the distributor (Diaggeo), not something that's illegal or against consumer laws. The Vintners Association reply is somewhat sneaky. It's true that Publicans can buy the same multipack bottles from the cash n carry that an off-licence can, however, they (Vintners Association and Publicans) know full well that they're not supposed to break it open and sell the bottles individually.

It's highly likely that in this case, the Publican bought the beer in a Supermarket, cheaper than they'd ever get it anywhere else, and proceeded to sell it at full individual retail price, making a tidy sum for themselves. That's just my own cynical opinion though. I'd report the incident to Diaggeo and let them look into it. I'd also forward on the Vintners Association's reply.

PCDave

Actually Jor el, it is even more likely that the same guys made a run to the north in a van and are selling the proceeds here!
maybe not so cynical, more of a truth!

wmpdd3

Yes def some pubs buy in supermarkets.

Trolley loads of just boxes of beer when the offer is on. I wouldn't blame them.

A local cafe gets most of their pastries in either tesco or aldi but nobody seems to care.

rubadub

jor el wrote: »

However, if they are selling 300ml bottles, then they need to display these on the price list, and if they didn't, then this is illegal.

Why do they need to have them on the list? the majority of drinks are not listed. Has anybody got the actual laws about this price display. They only display a tiny fraction of the available drinks, I don't know if there are criteria on which ones must be listed, e.g. is it bestsellers etc, if so how often is this established. It always seemed a very grey area to me when it was introduced.

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Yes def some pubs buy in supermarkets.

Yes, I see nothing wrong with this too, they take advantage of the supermarkets below cost selling, it would be foolish not to. As long as the duty is being paid I see no problem (i.e. I do see a problem with stocking up in another country). We get "loans" of bottles of vodka in our local, we replace them the next day and the manager asked us what we paid and told us he pays more himself in the cash & carry.

Flaccus

Some publicans I know will regularly buy whiskey from supermarkets. As people have pointed out, they can't buy it cheaper from their supplier.

jor el

rubadub wrote: »

Why do they need to have them on the list? the majority of drinks are not listed. Has anybody got the actual laws about this price display.

I believe it's part of the licencing law. Most pubs don't list all the drinks, and are in breech of the law. There is little or no checking or enforcement of it. the Vintners Association reply to the OP just shows how much contempt the publicans hold these laws in.

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Print-versions-of-guides/NCA-prices-guide.html

Apparently a 16 drink list must be displayed outside, together with a complete list inside. I've often seen the outside list not name specific drinks, but rather list by type,

• Lager Pint
• Lager 330ml bottle
• Stout Pint
• Stout pint bottle

etc.

foggy_lad

they must display certain drinks prices like at least one type of stout, whiskey, vodka etc and they must also give the measure in metric or imperial in the case of pint or half-pint only. there is no "bottle" or "longneck" measure for beers and lagers:)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1999/en/si/0263.html

rubadub

jor el wrote: »

I believe it's part of the licencing law. Most pubs don't list all the drinks, and are in breech of the law.

Yes, I don't think I have ever seen a full list in any pub.

Pubs and other licensed premises must have two price display lists:

* A comprehensive list of all drinks. This should be on display within each drinking area on the premises
* A "16 item" list of the prices of 16 specific drinks. This must be on display immediately outside or immediately inside each entrance

foggy_lad wrote: »

they must display certain drinks prices like at least one type of stout, whiskey, vodka etc and they must also give the measure in metric or imperial in the case of pint or half-pint only. there is no "bottle" or "longneck" measure for beers and lagers:)

(g) the price per bottle charged at the premises or at that part of the premises, as the case may be, for at least one kind of lager in bottles of a capacity of 330 millilitres,

So they could have the 300ml bottle and charge more. I have seen it just listed as "stout" on some pubs, so the snakes could have the beamish price listed, knowing full well guinness is the main stout sold. Could have some cheapo other drinks too.

foggy_lad

rubadub wrote: »

So they could have the 300ml bottle and charge more. I have seen it just listed as "stout" on some pubs, so the snakes could have the beamish price listed, knowing full well guinness is the main stout sold. Could have some cheapo other drinks too.

they must give the price for a 330ml bottle but if they only stock 300ml bottles they must give the price for that instead or the pro-rata price for the 330ml bottle.