Unpaid work experience -state benefits available?

Rowley Birkin QC

Hi, I'm qualifying from a 4 year degree programme this year and intending on applying for an unpaid 3-month position in a relevant organisation to my qualification, it really is about building up sufficient and relevant work experience at the moment in my industry.

My question is would I be eligible for state benefits considering the position is unpaid? I have always been employed during any time off from college if this has any bearing on things.

Cheers.

Jimdagym

I dont know, but if you are doing this internship, i'd imagine it could be construed as not actively seeking work. I can see that complicating your claim.

jhegarty

As you are not looking for work , or in full time education , I can't think of anything you could get.

Rowley Birkin QC

Jimdagym wrote: »

I dont know, but if you are doing this internship, i'd imagine it could be construed as not actively seeking work. I can see that complicating your claim.

Seriously??

I am seeking work, but it's just not a paid position. Would I be eligible for any assistance towards living costs?

black & white

Go to your local FAS office and ask. There is a payment available of about 35 Euro a week for someone who is doing unpaid work experience but not all regions have it included in their budget ( Mid West doesn't for example) and not all FAS offices/ers are aware of it.

Rowley Birkin QC

Cheers. I rang the citizens information line yesterday and the lady there seemed to be of the opinion that it would not be considered "actively seeking work".

Really is frustrating, 4 years of college and never a single penny of a grant available to me when people around me were getting things paid for left right and centre and drinking the surplus and when I want to claim for a measly 3 months it's not considered a valid claim.:mad::mad: /rant.

Do the social welfare offices take inquiries over the phone or is it strictly a walk in service?

Breaktown

They rarely answer the phones, so you're better off going in to them. Although I doubt you'll be able to claim anything seeing as though you're not available for full time paid work.

aoibhebree

Hi BigKev49,

I have a friend in a similar position - she's between 3rd and 4th year in college, and is doing an eight-month work placement. She couldn't get a paid position, so it's unpaid, and she checked it out - won't qualify for any benefits. She's getting the grant though so it's not so bad, she'll still have to have a second job in the evenings though.

Hmmm ... what if you were to apply for Jobseekers allowance but didn't mention the unpaid placement ...?

havana

Many years ago when i started working i did voluntary work to gain experience. The social welfare were being sticky about it but a letter from the job saying i could leave at anytime without notice should i obtain work seemed to satisfy them. Not sure if this would be an option for you but maybe worth looking at

Rowley Birkin QC

aoibhebree wrote: »

Hi BigKev49,


Hmmm ... what if you were to apply for Jobseekers allowance but didn't mention the unpaid placement ...?

To be honest I'd prefer to keep things above board. It does raise an interesting point though.

At a technical level though does it count as employment when there is no remuneration involved?

Jimdagym

I dont think it matters if its technically classified as work. Its not not actively seeking work that will get you. If you went to oz for a 3 month holiday you couldnt claim it either. Same thing really.

bammer

This article clarifies the issue.

You can take on additional work, taking certain steps allows you to keep your social welfare payments.

article ......

ThePost.ieCompany Matters 13 March 2011 This week’s expert is Anne O’Connell, an associate in the employment and benefits department, William Fry Solicitors

QUESTION

I recently set up my own business and have been advised that it might be a good idea to take on junior personnel on unpaid work placements.
As ours is a small company, we can provide good, hands-on experience. However, I am unsure whether or not taking on people without pay could expose us to legal risks. What is your advice?

ANSWER

Under the government’
s current unpaid training scheme, placements can continue to receive their social welfare payments and entitlements while they are placed with an employer.

These training opportunities may be provided through an organised scheme or college, or on an ad hoc basis.

There is a tendency to think that such placements are not covered by the National Minimum Wage Act, especially where trainees are in continued receipt of their social welfare payments.
This does not, however, mean that they are not deemed to be ‘an employee’ for legal purposes. Consequently, they are entitled by law to the national minimum wage and other statutory protections.

Whether or not an unpaid placement will be deemed to be an employee of the company will very much depend on each individual case, so companies must assess the potential risks arising in the case of each placement.

The definition of an employee for the purposes of the National Minimum Wage Act is Very broad, in that an employee is deemed to be someone who works under a contract of employment, which is:

‘‘A contract of service or apprenticeship, or any other contract whereby an individual agrees with another person to do, or perform, personally any work or service for that person or a third person (whether or not the third person is a party to the contract)."

The above definition would seem to include unpaid placements, whether they are placed with a company by a training scheme provider or by other means.

While certain exemptions to the National Minimum Wage Act are specified in the regulations, they are very narrow and must meet certain requirements.

Therefore, the best method of dealing with these placement arrangements is to structure the scheme in such a way as to support the submission that no employee/employer relationship exists.

The National Employment Rights Authority (Nera) has stated that the Fás work placement scheme has been structured in such a way as to support this submission.

However, no other scheme has the security of this assurance. To mitigate against any risk, businesses should, therefore, take the following steps:
* ensure that the placement’s application form contains a declaration that they do not intend to enter into an employment relationship during their placement;

* include a declaration that the placement understands they are entitled to remain in receipt of jobseekers’ allowance and retain their social welfare status and other welfare entitlements;

* include a final declaration in the application form that the placement understands that they will not be an employee of the business and will have no contract of employment, whether express or implied, with the provider;

* the company should restrict the placement to a fixed term of less than one year without renewal;

* it should also ensure that the placement is not assimilated into internal HR or other work systems;

* the placement should not be subjected to disciplinary sanction or control in respect of attendance times, days or holidays;

* a placement plan should be agreed at the outset and progress should be assessed on an ongoing basis;

* the placement should be made aware of all health and safety provisions, including the company’s safety statement.

They will also need to undergo all necessary training in this area as they will be deemed an employee for the purposes of the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act.

It is also crucial to be consistent in the treatment of all unpaid trainee placements. If you pay some and not others, this could give rise to an equal pay claim under equality legislation.
If either party wishes to terminate the placeme
nt before the end of the fixed term, the original contract should provide that both will give one week’s notice where possible. This should not, however, be mandatory.

If you wish to offer the placement a position, wait until the end of the placement period and notify the Department of Social Protection.
If the placement has been organised by a training scheme provider, you will also need to let it know.

Each week, financial, legal and business advisers will answer your questions on a range of small business issues. If you are facing a business dilemma, or you would like to contribute to the column, send your e-mails to pib@sbpost.ie