Garda Medical/first aid training

Hooch

Hi guys,
Just looking for members thoughts on AGS first aid training. At present members do not leave the college with a first aid cert as they do not complete the necessary time. Due to this fact most stations in the country are in breach of health and safety (suprise suprise).
I know members are getting trained themselves in use of defib etc and even to EMT standard but i dont think this should have to be paid for by the members and espically have to take the time off to do it. First aid supplys in stations and vehicles are far bad too!!
Would like to know how other police services work.

mcguiver

Terrible!!!
I know in DMR we have a great ambulance service thanks to DFB, so first aid isn't a huge issue, but in rural areas the Gardai should have a good knowledge.

We do have some excellent first aiders, but only because they received training elsewhere or paid for first respnder courses etc.

Hooch

mcguiver wrote: »

Terrible!!!
in rural areas the Gardai should have a good knowledge.

We do have some excellent first aiders, but only because they received training elsewhere or paid for first respnder courses etc.

dats what im getting at. Out in the sticks we could be waiting up to 40 mins and more for an ambulance and if your really really lucky you might get the response car once a year. Please dont take it the wrong way i have great time for ambulance service but like us they cant be everywhere at once.
Im trainined as an emergency first responder, pre hospital trauma life support and training as an EMT at present with NASC but if i was to put figures on it i would say less than 200 members are trained past Occupational first aid (which is very very basic for our needs). Think the job needs to get overhaul the training on this

Whitewater-AGS

I agree the level of first aid training in the college is shocking and the first aid kits in stations and if your lucky the car aint worth a whole lot. I know there was a pilot project run in the K where lads where trained to first responder level and a A.E.D was put into the patrol car, I seen they attended a defib call during the week actually. I feel every member should be better trained in this area, thankfully in my previous job I got some training.

As was stated before in Dublin it aint so bad thanks to the dfb/hse normally being only a few mins away.

gdamedic

I'd have to agree with you there on that one, when I was down the country i had to use my first aid a lot.. Also trained to Emergency Medical First Responder outside of job. Even if members were trained to Cardiac First Responder level it would make a difference.

Hooch

Ya blanch and Kilkenny have defibs in their cars. Only a test scheme that has lasted about 3 years.
Anybody out of the college recently?? Have they changed the training any bit?

gdamedic

Training hasn't changed, its the same content as an occupaitional first aid course but no cert.

Hooch

gdamedic wrote: »

I'd have to agree with you there on that one, when I was down the country i had to use my first aid a lot.. Also trained to Emergency Medical First Responder outside of job. Even if members were trained to Cardiac First Responder level it would make a difference.

We posted at ame time so didnt see yours! Im in the same boat, presume you trained as EMFR over two years ago, there now gone to EFR (just recertified) and are PHECC registered. CFR would be great but then would the job allow you to use your skills. I made a quite enquiry to see if i would be allowed to carry a trauma bag once i've completed EMT in few weeks but have been unofficially told no way. No trauma bag, no oxygen, no defib, no way:(

gdamedic

Hopefully defibs mite roll out in most cars, in the next few years. I see the Regional Support unit in cork used theirs a few months back. the college has 3 AED's down there with a few staff trained to use them.

metman

nice guy always wrote: »

Hi guys,
Just looking for members thoughts on AGS first aid training. At present members do not leave the college with a first aid cert as they do not complete the necessary time.Would like to know how other police services work.

That's p*ss poor tbh. There is absolutely zero excuse for AGS not to stick a basic first aid course into phase one training.

We do a national first aid cert as part of basic training and have refresher training every couple of years to update to best practice. We're also now being trained on defibs. Our response cars all carry first aid kits and fire extinguishers as standard. The kits (contained in a small portable rucksack) hold everything from plasters up to gauze pads and foil blankets.

Hooch

gdamedic wrote: »

Hopefully defibs mite roll out in most cars, in the next few years. I see the Regional Support unit in cork used theirs a few months back. the college has 3 AED's down there with a few staff trained to use them.

Bang on, October or there abouts. Safed the guys life too. Just happened to be driving behind him. Fingers crossed. If it helped one person sure its worth it as long as the NAS dont think were stepping on their toes!!!

gdamedic

ah sure maybe after the recession we might get them

metman

If its anything like here you won't see defibs in all response cars. The reason being that when defibs were introduced the ambulance service started asking police to attend jobs instead of sending an ambulance.

Most custody suites now have them as standard though, and ARVs carry them in some forces.

Hooch

metman wrote: »

That's p*ss poor tbh. There is absolutely zero excuse for AGS not to stick a basic first aid course into phase one training.

We do a national first aid cert as part of basic training and have refresher training every couple of years to update to best practice. We're also now being trained on defibs. Our response cars all carry first aid kits and fire extinguishers as standard. The kits (contained in a small portable rucksack) hold everything from plasters up to gauze pads and foil blankets.

Thanks for joining Metman
Ye do it right, of course! We dont ever get a refresher as im sure deadwood will comment on when he sees this:D:P
In thirty years service a lot changes. Our kits are very basic. the usual green plastic cases with nothing in them. In traffic we have small trauma bags which in farness i keep filled but can only put very basic stuff in them as members are not trained to use anything bar a plaster!

Whitewater-AGS

The lads in blanch must still have them in the car cause i noticed that one of there units was dispatched to a defib call during the week, not sure what day though.

there should be a a.e.d in at least each district if not each station! But that costs money and involved training and sending cars to medical calls so i'll not hold me breath :rolleyes:

Para1

nice guy always wrote: »

Bang on, October or there abouts. Safed the guys life too. Just happened to be driving behind him. Fingers crossed. If it helped one person sure its worth it as long as the NAS dont think were stepping on their toes!!!

i think everybody in the NAS has patient care as a priority, it dosent matter whos intervention saves a life as long as its saved. Personally i would be glad too see someone with the correct skills at a scene as long as they had recogonised skills, someone who dosent have the correct training may be doing more harm than good.

Tango Alpha 51

Para1 wrote: »

i think everybody in the NAS has patient care as a priority, it dosent matter whos intervention saves a life as long as its saved. Personally i would be glad too see someone with the correct skills at a scene as long as they had recogonised skills, someone who dosent have the correct training may be doing more harm than good.

+1

eroo

There should be defib's in every station imo. You could issue a defib to a certain car, and have them respond to any incidents maybe?

I'm trained in use of Defib and CPR, and it is ridiculously easy to learn. A course on it would not take more than a few hours. Why don't AGS hire private companies to go around to each station and train up Gardai in Defib/CPR/First Aid? I'm sure the company/companies would provide a significant discount.. (don't mention the 'R' word!!)

All of ye should be trained in Basic First Aid/Defib imo.

Tango Alpha 51

Think it's abit much to expect AGS to respond to medical calls on a continous basis. They are as under resourced as we are.

timmywex

ts a disgrace in fairness though that gardai are trained in basic first aid and never get it refreshed in many cases.

Usually gardai are first on scene to rtc's and may be waited for 10minutes for professional medical assistance.

sgthighway

We were talking about this recently. Its a shame there is no First Aid Training after leaving Templemore. A lot of Gardai take it upon themselves.

If any of the Gardai here are working in Communities that have a Red Cross, Civil Defence, St. John's or Order of Malta you should approach them and see will they do you a good deal - one Community Group helping another Community Group like the Gardai should be looking after each other ;).
The one thing about doing any sort of Life Saving Training; it can be used anywhere; work, home or play.

Do certain sections of the Gardai not get training in First Aid depending on the section the are in? I believe members of the ERU were recently trained as EMT-Bs.

Hooch

buzzman wrote: »

Think it's abit much to expect AGS to respond to medical calls on a continous basis. They are as under resourced as we are.

Dont take me the wrong way buzzman, as i said dont wana step on yer toes, but 90% of the time were first on scene for serious RTCs. And there is nothing worse than turning up and seeing members standing there doing nothing because there arent trained.
My idea is that members should be trained only for what they will encounter and i would be totally against AGS being turned out to calls to provide medical assistance or care, as Buzzman said we dont have the resources nor the manpower to do so.

Hooch

sgthighway wrote: »

Do certain sections of the Gardai not get training in First Aid depending on the section the are in? I believe members of the ERU were recently trained as EMT-Bs.

Yes NBCI and some others are trained by NASC to EFR level. ERU recently completed EMT training, again with NASC.
But this should be rolled out to the country. Regular members to OFA and EFR to units like traffic etc.
Just my thoughts:D

Red Dwarf

Having a AED in a station/car and knowing good effective CPR could not only help save the life of a member of the public but also a colleague.

TheNog

buzzman wrote: »

Think it's abit much to expect AGS to respond to medical calls on a continous basis. They are as under resourced as we are.

nice guy always wrote: »

Dont take me the wrong way buzzman, as i said dont wana step on yer toes, but 90% of the time were first on scene for serious RTCs. And there is nothing worse than turning up and seeing members standing there doing nothing because there arent trained.
My idea is that members should be trained only for what they will encounter and i would be totally against AGS being turned out to calls to provide medical assistance or care, as Buzzman said we dont have the resources nor the manpower to do so.

I think we should be trained and have refresher training for First Aid as well as having defibs too. Although I can see both your points about us being under resourced I reckon that no matter what we are doing at any given time, a garda would drop everything to attend to a person having a heart attack. Certainly it happens when we know we are going to a serious RTC.

buzzboy

I find its very rare for gardai to be first on scene at rtc's. You would pass them on the way to the call driving casually out the road to the scene and then pull up at the scene with no blue lights on and dont get thick over it but i have seen this so many times its annoying! I'V often been at fatal rtc's waiting 45 minutes for the gardai. Is it that im working down the country and its a more relaxed approach to the job or what!

Hooch

buzzboy wrote: »

I find its very rare for gardai to be first on scene at rtc's. You would pass them on the way to the call driving casually out the road to the scene and then pull up at the scene with no blue lights on and dont get thick over it but i have seen this so many times its annoying! I'V often been at fatal rtc's waiting 45 minutes for the gardai. Is it that im working down the country and its a more relaxed approach to the job or what!

Im working down the countrytoo buzzman, in the sticks. I can say without fear of being lying that 90% of the time if im working im first on the scene. If its a serious call blue lights all the way (AS1).
Most new members dont have the course done so they are shy at using the lights, in fact cant on chiefs. Standard car and advanced members will use them more.
Im not on the regualar unit im attached to another one and im always out and about not responding to calls so maybe that why im first on the scene. Maybe its just i have the interest to help. I know one member who takes their time heading to accidents for the very reason we are discussing....they cant do anything for someone hurt.

Hooch

Does Buzzman have a son!!!!!!!!! BUZZBOY!!!!

buzzboy

nice guy always wrote: »

Does Buzzman have a son!!!!!!!!! BUZZBOY!!!!

No just live in awe of the man!:D

Hooch

buzzboy wrote: »

No just live in awe of the man!:D

Dame why didnt i think of that.....i could have been NOG Jnr!!!!:D:D:D:D

metman

I shall call him.....Mini-Nog....muahahaha!

Hooch

metman wrote: »

I shall call him.....Mini-Nog....muahahaha!

LOL +1
He he he he

donvito99

nice guy always wrote: »

ERU recently completed EMT training, again with NASC.

Would be funny if the ERU showed up to a RTC.

Hooch

donvito99 wrote: »

Would be funny if the ERU showed up to a RTC.

Na they have to do it now. Just in case they use force at an incident. (fingers crossed they dont)

Para1

nice guy always wrote: »

Dont take me the wrong way buzzman, as i said dont wana step on yer toes, but 90% of the time were first on scene for serious RTCs. And there is nothing worse than turning up and seeing members standing there doing nothing because there arent trained.
My idea is that members should be trained only for what they will encounter and i would be totally against AGS being turned out to calls to provide medical assistance or care, as Buzzman said we dont have the resources nor the manpower to do so.

Realistically what would a member of AGS or even a first aider be able to do at the scene of a serious rtc?? stablises the persons neck to prevent further damage and reassure the patient, you wouldnt have the necessary equiptment to preform a safe extraction, and again someone not trained properly could do seirous harm . Its a little off the point as heart conditions are much more common than rtc and in that situation EVERYBODY should be able to provide CPR. im amazed that every member of AGS is not a CFR.

donvito99

Just for the sake of it,






A dash of colour for the thread there.

metman

Para1 wrote: »

Realistically what would a member of AGS or even a first aider be able to do at the scene of a serious rtc??

Hmm perhaps I'm going out on a limb here but maybe they could administer some kind of aid in the first instance....if only there was a term for that kind of initial medical assistance.....:rolleyes:

Who knows, they might even park their vehicles in such a way, using lights and sirens, so as to prevent further collisions and warn other road users...summon help from the control room....oh I'm just shooting in the dark here!

As regards extractions etc....erm that's what Trumpton are for.

buzzboy

Hi Last week the rsu in limerick were first on scene to a cardiac arrest and used there aed to deliver one shock to the patient prior to ambo service arrival so well done to the rsu!

Tango Alpha 51

nice guy always wrote: »

Does Buzzman have a son!!!!!!!!! BUZZBOY!!!!

I had a son & no one told me!!!!!!!!!!!

Hooch

buzzman wrote: »

I had a son & no one told me!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets face it....it could happen to the best of us:D:D
Wonder is he a para 2222222222222!!!!

Para1

metman wrote: »

Hmm perhaps I'm going out on a limb here but maybe they could administer some kind of aid in the first instance....if only there was a term for that kind of initial medical assistance.....:rolleyes:

Who knows, they might even park their vehicles in such a way, using lights and sirens, so as to prevent further collisions and warn other road users...summon help from the control room....oh I'm just shooting in the dark here!

point taken metman:D

Steviewonder

gdamedic wrote: »

I'd have to agree with you there on that one, when I was down the country i had to use my first aid a lot.. Also trained to Emergency Medical First Responder outside of job. Even if members were trained to Cardiac First Responder level it would make a difference.

Hi gdamedic

Im hopefully training to join AGS

I have recently trained to Emergency First Responder Level

Will this benefit me in an interview?

da__flash

Steviewonder wrote: »

Hi gdamedic

Im hopefully training to join AGS

I have recently trained to Emergency First Responder Level

Will this benefit me in an interview?

well stevie as tesco say, every little helps

Steviewonder

nice guy always wrote: »

dats what im getting at. Out in the sticks we could be waiting up to 40 mins and more for an ambulance and if your really really lucky you might get the response car once a year. Please dont take it the wrong way i have great time for ambulance service but like us they cant be everywhere at once.
Im trainined as an emergency first responder, pre hospital trauma life support and training as an EMT at present with NASC but if i was to put figures on it i would say less than 200 members are trained past Occupational first aid (which is very very basic for our needs). Think the job needs to get overhaul the training on this

Hi niceguyalways

Would in your opinion having done the Emergency first responder course stand me in good stead for a garda interview?

I have just completed it

shakin

Im doing a first aid course at the minute, now once i do it i wont be practising regularly with any of the vols, so if i need it in a years time who knows how frsh in the mind it will be, but it would be better than nothing.

With regards what a first aider can do at the scene of a RTC, from what ive been told so far, not a whole lot with regards head injuries, but i could probably treat any walking wounded, treat for shock any cuts, maybe just calm the situation a small bit.

We were told that keeping a head still was only to be undertaken if we knew what to do i.e. i dont think its in the remit of a first aider, because you will have to stay in an awkward position for an unknown period of time, and we cant put on neck-braces either....open to correction on this i havent finished course yet.


I definitely think gardai should have basic first aid and defib/cpr and access to at least 2 defib in every district, in case one is tied up. But i dont think gardai need much more, what i would suggest is that retained firefighters be trained to emt or suitable level,whether this exists or not im not sure, afaik my home town is rural enough and the retained firemen are ua=sually out way before any gardai or ambulance and would be the ones best placed for primary treatment in that instance.

Just my two cents:)

shakin

Steviewonder wrote: »

Hi niceguyalways

Would in your opinion having done the Emergency first responder course stand me in good stead for a garda interview?

I have just completed it

i know you asked nga but i would think not, a first aid should be an advantage and probably a requirement in the future, besides to do emt is a tad expensive methinks! just re-reading your post, seeing as you have it done, it cannot have a negative affect on your application, best of luck with it!

coolmoose

holy resurrected thread batman!!

Tango November.

If they got the money I think the should train all members up to ERF, it has a bit in and enough to save someones life.

I no some fire trucks around the county are carrying AED's