Golf-GPS Devices

emilyj

Apologies if this has already been dealt with but as you can see I'm new to Boards. What does anyone think about the use of GPS devices in golf competitions. They've been legal now for a couple of years, but a local rule has to be adopted by each club.
Personally I think they should be allowed as they could help to speed up play and make it a bit easier when playing an unfamiliar course

slumped

Firstly, they have not been legal for a couple of years now.

They are not allowed under the rules of golf.

A local rule can be adopted by a club which permits them - but this is not the norm as far as I can see.

I am a member in a club that allows them - but my closest club does not allow them.

S

kingshankly

slumped wrote: »

Firstly, they have not been legal for a couple of years now.

They are not allowed under the rules of golf.

A local rule can be adopted by a club which permits them - but this is not the norm as far as I can see.

I am a member in a club that allows them - but my closest club does not allow them.

S

gps have been given the all clear by the r&a and usga and have let it down to each club whether to allow them or not.there are legal for any amateur competition,and i think there are been used in the euro pro tour

Mister Sifter

I've never used one, but i wouldn't mind a go just to work out exact measurements of how far i hit the ball with each club.

Generally i find that if i miss a flag by a lot, then it's normally poor club sleection or a mis-hit shot to blame, not the yardage. Only one a few occassions have i felt the yardage sticks / markers were to blame.

I'm not too keen on the thought of them being used in competitions. However, if it gets to the point where alot of people are using them and i feel that i'm at a disadvantage in not doing so then i'd probably give it a go too.

As far as i know, they are banned from my own course currently anyway.

slumped

kingshankly wrote: »

gps have been given the all clear by the r&a and usga and have let it down to each club whether to allow them or not.there are legal for any amateur competition,and i think there are been used in the euro pro tour

Rule 14-3 bans them (exception at bottom)

The R&A reserves the right, at any time, to change the Rules relating to artificial devices, unusual equipment and the unusual use of equipment, and to make or change the interpretations relating to these Rules.

A player in doubt as to whether use of an item would constitute a breach of Rule 14-3 should consult the R&A.

A manufacturer should submit to the R&A a sample of an item to be manufactured for a ruling as to whether its use during a stipulated round would cause a player to be in breach of Rule 14-3. The sample becomes the property of the R&A for reference purposes. If a manufacturer fails to submit a sample or, having submitted a sample, fails to await a ruling before manufacturing and/or marketing the item, the manufacturer assumes the risk of a ruling that use of the item would be contrary to the Rules.

Except as provided in the Rules, during a stipulated round the player must not use any artificial device or unusual equipment, or use any equipment in an unusual manner:
a. That might assist him in making a stroke or in his play; or
b. For the purpose of gauging or measuring distance or conditions that might affect his play; or
c. That might assist him in gripping the club, except that:
(i) plain gloves may be worn;
(ii) resin, powder and drying or moisturising agents may be used; and
(iii) a towel or handkerchief may be wrapped around the grip.
Exceptions:
1. A player is not in breach of this Rule if (a) the equipment or device is designed for or has the effect of alleviating a medical condition, (b) the player has a legitimate medical reason to use the equipment or device, and (c) the Committee is satisfied that its use does not give the player any undue advantage over other players.
2. A player is not in breach of this Rule if he uses equipment in a traditionally accepted manner.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 14-3:
Disqualification.

Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule allowing players to use devices that measure or gauge distance only.

1916

slumped wrote: »

Except as provided in the Rules, during a stipulated round the player must not use any artificial device or unusual equipment, or use any equipment in an unusual manner.

But a strokesaver book is allowed, because its not what could be reasonably described as equipment?

Myksyk

slumped wrote: »

Rule 14-3 bans them (exception at bottom)

Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule allowing players to use devices that measure or gauge distance only.

Saying they are they banned is not technically accurate. The correct description of the rule is they are allowed only by local rule.

All major amateur competitions in the UK under the EGU now allow them.

From their site:

The English Golf Union (EGU) has taken the decision to allow Distance-Measuring Devices (DMD) to be used in all its championships in 2009.

The Specimen Local Rule on page 140 of the Rules of Golf book will be in place:

"For each and every Competition run by or for The English Golf Union Ltd and for each days play a player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. If, during a stipulated round a player uses a distance measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other Conditions that might affect his play (e.g. gradient, wind speed, temperature etc.) the player is in breach of Rule 14-3, for which the Penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional function is actually used."

slumped

Myksyk wrote: »

Saying they are they banned is not technically accurate. The correct description of the rule is they are allowed only by local rule.

All major amateur competitions in the UK under the EGU now allow them.

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Saying they are banned is TECHNICALLY accurate!!

On the island of Ireland, they are banned under the rules of golf.

They are also banned in Scotland and Wales - England is the only country I've heard of going in favour of them.

FROM GUI WEBSITE http://www.gui.ie/news_detail.asp?area=5&id=998

Decision 14-3/0.5 in the 2006-2007 Decisions on the Rules of Golf enables a Committee to introduce a Local Rule permitting golfers to use a distance measuring device to obtain distance information during a round. Without such a Local Rule, the use of such a distance measuring device is a breach of Rule 14-3, the penalty for which is disqualification.

The R&A is not advocating the introduction of a Local Rule permitting the use of distance measuring devices and is not introducing such a Local Rule for any of its own amateur championships or matches, or The Open Championship.

Similarly the GUI is not permitting the use of distance measuring devices in its National and Provincial events.

It is for each individual Committee to decide whether it wants to allow the use of distance measuring devices for play on its course or in certain of its competitions. In the absence of a Local Rule, the use of such a device is contrary to the Rules of Golf. If the Committee wishes to introduce such a Local Rule, the following wording is recommended:

Distance-Measuring Devices:

[Specify as appropriate, e.g., In this competition, or For all play at this course, etc.], a player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. However, if, during a stipulated round, a player uses a distance measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play (e.g., gradient, wind-speed, temperature, etc.), the player is in breach of Rule 14-3, for which the penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional functions are actually used.

It should be noted that any such Local Rule must prohibit the use of a distance measuring device that is capable of gauging or measuring other conditions that might affect play, even if such a function is not used.

The R&A does not endorse or approve any brand of distance-measuring device. Manufacturers are not permitted to use terms such as “R&A approved” or the like in any product advertising.


S

emilyj

Thanks for all the input, it's interesting to get the different views. As I said earlier, my opinion is that they should be allowed in competition, but I accept that not everyone will agree with this. I don't see the difference in having one of these devices, and a tour pro getting the same info from his caddy.
Most golf courses have some form of distance markers on the fairway, but these are of little use if you're in the rough or playing a shot from an adjacent fairway.
The fact that you can walk up to your ball and know exactly how far it is to the green will take the guess work out of your shot, but it doesn't mean you're going to pepper the pin each time. If you know you've exactly 165yds to the middle of the green, rather than guessing it's somewhere between 155-175 yds, there's a better chance of you hitting the green, and thus speeding up play.
If they improve your game even better, isn't that what most golfers are trying to do by buying the latest driver, which probably costs twice as much as a GPS unit.

Myksyk

:rolleyes: Tomayto tomato ...

Under the rules of golf they are allowed by local rule.

The GUI whom I've been in touch with about this for our club recently say it is up to the club to make a decision. To paraphrase, they say under the rules of golf it is permissable for a club or any club or every club to allow their use.

The GUI are not using the devices - but not because the rules of golf say they can't. The rules of golf say they can if they want to.

A ban is the forbidding of the use of something. The rules allow you to use them if you want. Spin it anyway you want, this is not a ban. It is merely a stipulation that a local rule MUSt be in place for their use, if not there is a penalty.

Sandwich

Anyone know what the situation is for interclub competitions? At a guess it wouldnt seem right to me that it be down to the local rules of the club - use it for home match not an away, use it on round 1, not in round 2 etc. Or does the competition itself override local rules?

Myksyk

I think it's still down to local rule at each club.

thewing

I have one for sale if you're interested, sureshot gps - unwanted chrimbo pressie, PM for details

Sandwich

Sandwich wrote: »

Anyone know what the situation is for interclub competitions? At a guess it wouldnt seem right to me that it be down to the local rules of the club - use it for home match not an away, use it on round 1, not in round 2 etc. Or does the competition itself override local rules?

Apologies for the bump, but anyone know the official answer to this?

Mister Sifter

Sandwich wrote: »

Apologies for the bump, but anyone know the official answer to this?

As far as i can tell Sandwich, they're not allowed... check out #28 on page 6 of this from the GUI... http://www.gui.ie/uploads/docs/997_GUI_Conditions_09.pdf

Sandwich

Thanks Graeme. That official enough for me!

Garda S Horgan

So, according to the Beaverstown club website it's ok to use the device.
If thats the case I might invest. Anyone have one already ?
115 euro for one.
Not too bad I suppose. Basic enough. Yardages to bunkers and lakes and green etc. No need to have color screens and all that sort of jazz as thats just going to slow down play.
I think it woudl be handy enough to have it stuck on the bag and when you go off the fairway you dont' need to start calculating yardages.
Yours etc,
GSH.

Garda S Horgan

Was in Ballyliffin for the weekend. Glorious weather saturday and sunday.
Played both courses.
The club house rents "sky caddie" gps.
I used my own Sureshot 8800.
Whatever about using a GPS on parkland it's a great help on links.
On the parkland you can judge distances perhaps using trees and other features and normally you won't be playing too many blind shots or have too many mounds or dips in the fairway.
I found if I was off the fairway I was 140 yards and it looked 100 or that I could not see the green but knew the club to hit.
Invaluable.
Best gadget for me so far this year.
Also, Ballyliffin is the joint best course I have played (Adare Manor on a perfect day in Autumn being the other).
Yours etc,
GSH.

golfbgud

I have a SKYCADDY (Latest one xx5) and find it good. Local club allows under local rules but I'm not certain if it allows any type (need to check).

Speeds up golf rounds and should be allowed (in my humble opinion).

Jasonw

Garda S Horgan wrote: »

Was in Ballyliffin for the weekend. Glorious weather saturday and sunday.

Also, Ballyliffin is the joint best course I have played (Adare Manor on a perfect day in Autumn being the other).
Yours etc,
GSH.

You should try it in the wind. I played it last year when we were on holidays. The wind was picking up all the way through the round. On one of the last holes I struck a 3 wood right down the throat of the wind. I paced out how far I'd hit it. 70 metres!

Nice courses though.

On the GPS issue my own opinion is that I wouldn't like to see the widespread use of DMD's in competition. I think there's more to the skill of golf than ball striking.
On a side note I was playing in a junior matchplay event recently and my opponent used one (actually a rangefinder not a gps device) He was subsequently disqualified.

Mister Sifter

I don't have one myself and have never used one. I do quite often use strokesavers though. I'm not convinced that the advantage is any greater for someone using a rangefinder over someone using a strokesaver.

At the end of the day, the technology is available to everyone. And as long as it's a level playing field then i don't see the need to complain.

The main advatage i would think a gps or laser tool would bring is that you would eventually have a very good idea about exactly how far you hit the ball with each club. That i would like to know.

Jasonw

Graeme1982 wrote: »

At the end of the day, the technology is available to everyone. And as long as it's a level playing field then i don't see the need to complain.

but perhaps not affordable by everyone.
There's a lot of guys out there who are retired etc.

As I've said before, I'd prefer if they weren't allowed. However, if they came into widespread use I'd have to get one as being without would give the advantage to the other guy,

Mister Sifter

Jasonw wrote: »

but perhaps not affordable by everyone.
There's a lot of guys out there who are retired etc.

As I've said before, I'd prefer if they weren't allowed. However, if they came into widespread use I'd have to get one as being without would give the advantage to the other guy,

So they shouldn't be allowed until everyone can afford them? Price is no reason not to allow them. There's a €500 driver in the golf shop that i can't afford, so does that mean that everyone shouldn't buy it or use it either?

jimbling

Jasonw wrote: »

but perhaps not affordable by everyone.
There's a lot of guys out there who are retired etc.

As I've said before, I'd prefer if they weren't allowed. However, if they came into widespread use I'd have to get one as being without would give the advantage to the other guy,

ah, come on... in all fairness, you can get older models pretty cheap now.
And if you cant' afford to buy one then don't. Same way if you can't afford to buy a nice fancy Driver or putter you don't. Most people that wouldn't be able to afford it would probably not give two ****s about having one anyway.

I'm all for technology, within reasonable limits, to be honest........bring it on. Now, to find me a cheap source for a gps device :pac:

Jasonw

I take your point all I'm saying is that it's not "a level playing field" to someone who can't afford one / can't use one / refuses to use one.

And who is to say what's cheap or not? 100 euro may be a mornings work to one person or a weeks pension to another.

Jimbling, what's your reasonable limit on technology?

I don't buy the fancy / expensive club arguement either. I thing we all agree that golf clubs are an essential part of the game. I'm not sure that DMD's are.

What I'm saying is that everyone's milage varies. that's all

Mister Sifter

But it is a level playing field in the sense that everyone has access to them. Everyone has a choice whether they want to buy one or not.

Price shouldn't be an issue when discussing whether they should or shouldn't be allowed.