N7 Naas wishing to be M7 ;)

mysterious

The N7 between Dublin and Naas, known locally as the Naas Dual Carriageway, was extensively upgraded in 2006. It was widened to 6 lanes and had 4 new junctions added. Most local access was also closed off. However, the job was not completed, with a small number of such accesses still remaining. Considering this is such an important road, with such high traffic volumes and so close to Dublin, it is imperative that the section is eventually upgraded to motorway.
It's frankly daft having a 6-lane grade separated N7 running from the M50 to Naas, where the motorway starts - why isn't the 6-lane section motorway too? Its sightlines and width are built to a higher spec than Naas's M7. Only minor alterations would be necessary to bring the motorway standard as far as the R136 Outer Ring Road. Further in from there, although the whole road will be grade separated shortly after 2010 with the opening of the Newlands Cross junction, there will still be frontage, bicycle and pedestrian access, as well as bus lanes and bus stops. The main work required to achieve an upgrade of Naas-Outer Ring would be completion and upgrade of the parallel service road which currently only goes from Naas to Blackhill. A number of changes would be needed to upgrade this service road:
-Widening of the service road from Naas to Blackhill (Jct 4), and from 3 km east of Blackhill to Rathcoole. The road was pieced together from country lanes;
-Construction of a 3 km missing section from Blackhill east to the road to Rathcoole;
-Construction of the proposed Rathcoole outer distributor road;
-Provision of the future grade separated junction at the oddly named Tootenhill, beside Rathcoole;
-Closure of the at-grade N7 access in Rathcoole and diversion to the new junction;
-Closure of the at-grade N7 access in the Citywest area.
In addition, a number of private accesses to the N7 along its entire length would need to be closed and diverted to the service road. This could be difficult in places if the access only leads to a single building. Finally, many of the new N7 grade separated junctions, and the older Citywest junction, feature very tight loops and short ramps, which would need to be reconstructed.



I found this page, shows if the road were ever to be upgraded, it would need the following above..

There is one thing that I don't get. It's the stupid nonsense of needing another interchange south of Rathcoole. There is enough interchanges between Naas and Newlands, if anything they are all sparsley used bar the Rathcoole interchange. I think if they built more local roads to the existing interchanges and link them up it would space traffic out more along the existing network. What do you think? Do we need another interchange here, if the road were to be upgraded.

I personally don't think Rathcoole needs another interchange. A distrubuter road yes and a outer ring road too will mean greater access to the (M7) the southbound. Traffic can divert to the southern interchage just beyond Rathcoole to the south west just as easy.

Once the local road is built from Blackhall, to Newlands, an auxillary lane can also be added from Citywest to the outer ring. To provide the at grade movements, slips between the interchanges and bus lanes from the two close interchanges and separate from the motorway trafffic completely will mean the road will be up to motorway standard.


Also Newlands cross should be 4 lanes each way over the belgard not 3 each way. 3lane motorway is a max of 91,000. Any road that is build should have a design year of 91,000. The road already peaks at this level here.

I don't understand how the NRA can be so retarded. Is it me, or it just that hardly anyone workin in the NRA office have plastic heads and no qualifcations.

ardmacha

I don't understand how the NRA can be so retarded. Is it me, or it just that hardly anyone workin in the NRA office have plastic heads and no qualifcations.

This type of comment is not warranted. The NRA build the roads that there is finance for, if there isn't enough money you have to cut your cloth accordingly. It is a bit like saying that someone who has a long commute is retarded when they weren't able to afford housing in a more convenient location.

Stupido

I agree...I think NRA do a good job for what its worth...it is the politicians who make the decisions, they just design and build the things.


Look at the junction numbers on the M50. N7 is junction 9 and N4 is junction 7. There is a gap for the M7, mooted a long time ago to run through greenfield from the Naas motorway.

Would probably be cheaper to upgrade the newly upgraded Naas road now to motorway.

Ham'nd'egger

Stupido wrote: »

I agree...I think NRA do a good job for what its worth...it is the politicians who make the decisions, they just design and build the things.


Look at the junction numbers on the M50. N7 is junction 9 and N4 is junction 7. There is a gap for the M7, mooted a long time ago to run through greenfield from the Naas motorway.

Would probably be cheaper to upgrade the newly upgraded Naas road now to motorway.

Junction 8 was supposed to link the M50 to Parkwest but it never came to fruition.

The greatest problem in upgrading the N7 to a motorway is in ensuring that all local landowners, houses etc who are on the current road have adequate access to their land to replace that on the current N 7 before these gates are closed off. The options available were to either improve the capacity of the old road to carry more traffic and quicker or to build a whole new Motorway. Baldonnell aerodrome and Adamstown would be close to the path of the new motorway so in hindsight it may have been cheaper and quicker to upgrade as they did; it seems to work well enough.

murphaph

Hamndegger wrote: »

Junction 8 was supposed to link the M50 to Parkwest but it never came to fruition.

No it wasn't. It was intended to be the point where the "Naas Motorway" terminated on the M50. I have an old Dublin County Council map of west Dublin with all the unbuilt roads on it (M50, Naas Motorway from J8 westwards, Lucan Bypass, Outer Ring, Fonthill Road, etc. etc.). In fact the only road they didn't build from that map was the replacement N7 Naas Motorway.

anotherlostie

What would a motorway achieve over the current setup? Get off-peak traffic from Naas to Newlands (or vv) maybe 2 minutes quicker. And get the congestion to either spot quicker at on-peak times too. The cost involved in providing a suitable alternative for those that cannot use the motorway, and taking out all the current access points is surely prohibitive in any case. I remember the mess when the road was being upgraded and for one would like to see it remain how it is for some time yet.

Chris_533976

It would be nice to have that extra blue on the map. Also safer as it gets M restrictions. But I'm sure everyone here would agree that any money spent on glorifying the N7 would be better spent on relieving a bottleneck elsewhere

mysterious

anotherlostie wrote: »

What would a motorway achieve over the current setup? Get off-peak traffic from Naas to Newlands (or vv) maybe 2 minutes quicker. And get the congestion to either spot quicker at on-peak times too. The cost involved in providing a suitable alternative for those that cannot use the motorway, and taking out all the current access points is surely prohibitive in any case. I remember the mess when the road was being upgraded and for one would like to see it remain how it is for some time yet.

It would be safer, faster and more attractive and make alot of sense. Since it's one of the major roads in Ireland. It's something we could be proud of.

I would love to see a blue road all the way to Newlands Cross. And why not?
I do think for safety and capacty reasons, the road should be upgraded with auxillary lanes from Newlands to Rathcoole. To separate the vast amount of local acceses onto the DC.

The road here is very busy you know.

AugustusMaximus

For safety sake, the road should be upgraded to motorway. Obviously from Parkwest in the limit would have to be reduced to 100kph from 120kph.

murphaph

mysterious wrote: »

It's something we could be proud of.

Perhaps the worst reason given for upgrading any road to motorway.

mysterious wrote: »

I would love to see a blue road all the way to Newlands Cross. And why not?

We have no money. There are loads of capital infrastructure projects that should get what little money may become available than a road that performs its function adequately.

anotherlostie

Is this road a serious safety blackspot other than where the three lanes drop to two at Naas, something this proposal wouldn't address? The only bad accident I recall was where a car went (somehow) onto the wrong side of the road from the Citywest slip and was hit by an oncoming vehicle resulting in the death of the occupants of that car. I think this type of accident could happen on a motorway too.

And I think in the current climate, aesthetics of our roads are the least we have to worry about.

DWCommuter

Eh correct me if Im wrong lads, but upgrading this section of the N7 to motorway is a tad impossible, due to the fact that L drivers cant drive on Motorways and there is no other designated route.

As for Junct 8 on the M50, the plan I saw in Kildare showed a new motorway leaving at a point near the Sallins road flyover and heading towards the M50.

ardmacha

but upgrading this section of the N7 to motorway is a tad impossible, due to the fact that L drivers cant drive on Motorways and there is no other designated route.

This is nonsense, L drivers don't have to practice there and their accompanying driver can drive if they want to go along this road. Some other restricted categories might have a point, L drivers have none whatsoever.

artful_codger

mysterious wrote: »

It would be safer, faster and more attractive and make alot of sense.

i'd imagine drivers don't pay much attention to the speed limit on the N7, regardless of what's written on the signs, same as the M50 right now.

HonalD

ardmacha wrote: »

This is nonsense, L drivers have none whatsoever.

I think you'll find that there is a freedom of movement implied somewhere in our consitution or statutes................cannot exclude people getting from A to B just because it might suit you.

HonalD

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

For safety sake, the road should be upgraded to motorway. Obviously from Parkwest in the limit would have to be reduced to 100kph from 120kph.

For what sake of safety?

ardmacha

I think you'll find that there is a freedom of movement implied somewhere in our consitution or statutes................cannot exclude people getting from A to B just because it might suit you.

There is no restriction on people's movement, only on who can drive. L drivers can travel as passengers in vehicles driven by qualified people just as children do.

rameire

there is no point upgrading the n7 to m7 status for the reaon of speed, as most idiots who drive the road currently havent a clue on how to drive on a road with 3 lanes either side of the barrier.
most drive in lane 2 and 3 at whatever speed they want, some at speeds greater than motorway speed.
and just because its a motorway, doesnt mean L drivers and slow idiots will not drive on it.
look at the other motorways in ireland and youll see L drives cruising along in their micra's oblivious to the fact that their car doesnt only go at 80km/h.

the money would be better spent on road signs stating keep left unless overtaking, and check your lights you idiots the bulb has been blown for the last 3 months.

mysterious

There IS A POINT.

Safety and future proofing.

The Local road needs to be built. There are far to many accesses from Rathcoole to Newlands that can be easily separated from the mainline.

• It will improve capacity of the existing network
• improve local traffic and local access
• improve safety for all users
• future proof the road
• complete the M7 motorway
• Save time

Anymore?

mysterious

rameire wrote: »

there is no point upgrading the n7 to m7 status for the reaon of speed, as most idiots who drive the road currently havent a clue on how to drive on a road with 3 lanes either side of the barrier.
most drive in lane 2 and 3 at whatever speed they want, some at speeds greater than motorway speed.
and just because its a motorway, doesnt mean L drivers and slow idiots will not drive on it.
look at the other motorways in ireland and youll see L drives cruising along in their micra's oblivious to the fact that their car doesnt only go at 80km/h.

the money would be better spent on road signs stating keep left unless overtaking, and check your lights you idiots the bulb has been blown for the last 3 months.

RUBBISH,

Speed is not the main reason it should be upgraded. The main reason it should be upgraded as it's necessary. The local road from Blackhall should be connected to citywest. There are far to many local access that join directly onto the busy dual carriegway. This can be separated.

There is just to much traffic using this road, look at all the developments going up in Rathcoole and Citywest. Two interchanges a few dozen LILOS all within 2km.

This can be dealth with, by adding an auxillary lane from outer ring to Citywest. A distrubuter road built from The existing Outer ring road to The southern approaches of Rathcoole. This will allow local traffic to avoid the busy dual carriegway. It will greatly relieve traffic for Newcastle and Baldonnel. AND also safety for all concerned even the long distance commuters as they wont have to much conflict with all the local movements.

Most intercity roads in capital cities have this type of system.

mysterious

Another thing that pisses me off.

Is people thinking that going at a 60mph or whatever speed in the far right lane is correct. Its not. If your the only car on the 3 lane road, you should always go into the far left lane. When the lanes are free move the the left lane. When car overtakes you, move into the LEFT LANE. IF YOU OVERTAKE A CAR MOVE TO THE RIGHT LANE.

I can't stand people who hogg the right and middle lanes and go at a constant speed. middle and right lanes are for overtaking. You can't overtake when hogging these lanes. If there is no traffic MOVE TO THE LEFT LANE:mad:

When Irish people learn to drive, do they get assesed on motorways.


They should raise the speed limit from Rathcoole to Naas. Everyone breaks the limit here, and don't deny it. It's one of the straightest stretches of roads in the country.

BrianD

mysterious wrote: »

There IS A POINT.

Safety and future proofing.

The Local road needs to be built. There are far to many accesses from Rathcoole to Newlands that can be easily separated from the mainline.

• It will improve capacity of the existing network
• improve local traffic and local access
• improve safety for all users
• future proof the road
• complete the M7 motorway
• Save time

Anymore?

I don't see any benefit from a further upgrade. The number of local accesses have been substantially reduced since the upgrade and don't pose any more of a risk than the new grade separated junctions. The major safety issue over the years were the cross over points/junctions through the medians which are now all gone.


There are very few local access that aren't a separated junction - in fact I believe there are only three, the most notable being at Citywest/Airmotive -and I doubt these count for much traffic entering the route.

I don't believe that removing the remaining 'local accesses' and putting blue signs on it would achieve any of the items that you list above.

The time saving won't be attained. Even with the addition of grade separated junctions, an extra lane and the removal of traffic lights it still is a car park on a Friday evening. It's the start of a major route of a city so it's always going to be like that.

DWCommuter

And L Drivers couldn't drive on it as you would be converting an original and decades old N route to an M route without an alternative R route. Face it folks, the thread is redundant. It cant be upgraded.

L1011

BrianD wrote: »

I
There are very few local access that aren't a separated junction - in fact I believe there are only three, the most notable being at Citywest/Airmotive -and I doubt these count for much traffic entering the route.

I don't believe that removing the remaining 'local accesses' and putting blue signs on it would achieve any of the items that you list above.

There are also a rake of private accesses - single dwellings and farms, particularly towards J7 outbound; and the two petrol stations and the pub...

ardmacha

And L Drivers couldn't drive on it

Why should L drivers want to drive on it? There are thousands of Km for them to practice driving elsewhere. The government can restrict L drivers from any part of the road network that they wish, or they may restrict the time of day that they can use the roads. L drivers seem to think that they are proper drivers already.

MrDerp

I don't think it's as simple as upgrading/closing a few junctions.

Drainage on parts of the road is atrocious. I regularly drive southbound on a Friday night, heading for Cork, and any time there's even moderate rain (very common, lets face it) I come up against several large puddles stretching across the entire fast lane, and often into the middle lane.

Slapping on a 120km/h speed limit here would be dangerous. I'd rather see a few quid spend on the fixing the drainage, and put the rest of the money into upgrading Newland's X and coming up with an alternative to that bloody Turnpike junction at the red cow (and by alternative I mean force them back onto the long mile rd or send them to ballymount).

I'd rather see more decent continuous stretches of green road than sweat over a continuous blue line. Upgrade Newland's X, fix the drainage, close a few LILOs if you must, and be done with that stretch for a while. Then give some relief to those poor b**tards in Galway, where every hour is rush hour.

Don't go spending money on an alternative road to the N7 just so you can slap motorway restrictions on it to soften the infrastructure-based inferority complex some of us have with Europe. Our European brothers ans sisters never complain to me about N roads not being motorways, they complain about traversing the country side on crap roads, getting lost due to poor and camouflaged signage

As for 'hogging' the middle lane I don't see it as such. When I'm in the middle lane, I see myself as being in a state of perpetual overtaking. It's a busy road, and no sooner have I passed one 80km/h micra on the left lane, I see another a couple of hundred metres up the road. I'm not gonna weave in and out constantly until I get to the motorway. I'd get an earful from herself - and I'm under enough pressure with her constantly blasting hot air in our faces when I'm not watching the climate controls.

I'm almost never travelling below 100km/h (it requires fog, ice, torrential rain or any other unsafe conditions), so I drive comfortable between the middle and fast lanes. As long as I see gowls in the left-most lane, I'll leave it to the gowls. I couldn't give a monkeys about AADT - I never travel the road at peak times so I'm sure I'm not offending the capacity gods

spacetweek

MrDerp wrote: »

As for 'hogging' the middle lane I don't see it as such. When I'm in the middle lane, I see myself as being in a state of perpetual overtaking. It's a busy road, and no sooner have I passed one 80km/h micra on the left lane, I see another a couple of hundred metres up the road. I'm not gonna weave in and out constantly until I get to the motorway. I'd get an earful from herself - and I'm under enough pressure with her constantly blasting hot air in our faces when I'm not watching the climate controls.

Oddly, I have to say I agree with this. The rule on 6-lane-plus setups should not be "Keep Left", but "Pick a Lane and Stick To It". I've been in cities like L.A. and on their freeways, this is always what you do. You don't see traffic all crowding in to the side unless overtaking. It's much better when people stay where they are instead of weaving in and out all the time as they overtake.

This is necessary as LA freeways, like the M50-Rathcoole stretch, are riddled with exits and traffic keeping to the side would constantly have to slow down and speed up as merging traffic came in.

mysterious

Since this road is at capacity almost.

It make sense to separate all the exits and local traffic from Rathcoole to the Outer ring road.

A distrubutor road should be built from South of Rathcoole to the existing purpose built road towards Newlands.

It makes the road more efficient, safer and future proofed.

I'm not talking about uppping the speed. But within the upgrade it's possible that it can be upgraded so.

L1011

Where do you propose building this road? From Rathcoole in there is no suitable land corridor for an adjoining road.

If anything could be done it would be Rathcoole OUTBOUND that could be simply upgraded as there is plenty of land to the north of the road as well as even a box reservation for a local road under one of the overbridges. Upgrading Rathcoole inbound and leaving private accesses from there to Maudlins would also mean it could not be reclassified as motorway.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Where do you propose building this road? From Rathcoole in there is no suitable land corridor for an adjoining road.

If anything could be done it would be Rathcoole OUTBOUND that could be simply upgraded as there is plenty of land to the north of the road as well as even a box reservation for a local road under one of the overbridges. Upgrading Rathcoole inbound and leaving private accesses from there to Maudlins would also mean it could not be reclassified as motorway.

They actually have left room for a distrubuter road, as I have seen a box reservation on one of the last interchanges just before Rathcoole, where the all purpose road ends.

The first step to upgrading the road would at least build the distrubuter road from Blackhall to Newlands. This will much pressure off the existing Nass road. It would even allow long distance traffic to move more freely on ths DC.

I'll try draw a pic, does anyone know where I can draw on a map or take a section off google earth and transfer it to paint bmp??

rameire

i know,
lets build a freeway above the existing roadway, with the billions of money floating around just waiting for ingenious ideas.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

They actually have left room for a distrubuter road, as I have seen a box reservation on one of the last interchanges just before Rathcoole, where the all purpose road ends.

The first step to upgrading the road would at least build the distrubuter road from Blackhall to Newlands. This will much pressure off the existing Nass road. It would even allow long distance traffic to move more freely on ths DC.

I'll try draw a pic, does anyone know where I can draw on a map or take a section off google earth and transfer it to paint bmp??

The box reservation is some distance out from Rathcoole, its at J6 IIRC.

There is no reservation for a distributor road inbound from Rathcoole. There IS a reservation for a motorway but it is already quite far north by Rathcoole and goes nowhere near Newlands - it goes to meet the M50 halfway between Lucan and the Red Cow at.

mysterious

rameire wrote: »

i know,
lets build a freeway above the existing roadway, with the billions of money floating around just waiting for ingenious ideas.

Well It's alot better than your attitude to life.:rolleyes:

Seriously it's people like you, is the reason we are in a recession. It's not the first time, you've shot down my opinions.

Infact, I've already proven you wrong on the Turnpike junction. It now has tailbacks EVERY evening with the new lights.

Yeah I was right :P

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

I'll try draw a pic, does anyone know where I can draw on a map or take a section off google earth and transfer it to paint bmp??

Use MyMaps in Google Maps.

You have to be logged into Gmail.

Go to Google Maps and click My Maps, then Create New Map etc. Fantastic interface.

When you're finished, click the Link at the top right of the map, and copy and paste the code, and lash it on here.

rameire

mysterious wrote: »

Well It's alot better than your attitude to life.:rolleyes:

Seriously it's people like you, is the reason we are in a recession. It's not the first time, you've shot down my opinions.

Infact, I've already proven you wrong on the Turnpike junction. It now has tailbacks EVERY evening with the new lights.

Yeah I was right :P

just to let you know ive got an engineer and an architect working on that issue at the moment. times are slow so they were happy to help out, they will not be doing official drawings or sketches, but they will be giving their view on the bridge idea based on actual measurements and distances. their view on the day of measurements was that it would be tight. so :P

mysterious

rameire wrote: »

just to let you know ive got an engineer and an architect working on that issue at the moment. times are slow so they were happy to help out, they will not be doing official drawings or sketches, but they will be giving their view on the bridge idea based on actual measurements and distances. their view on the day of measurements was that it would be tight. so :P

So I was right.

It would of being cheaper to build it then than now.
Longmile road and turnpike is getting busier. ALL OUTBOUND TRAFFIC should be freeflowing especially. The stretch from Longmile to Redcow is the most busiest.

Seriously a bridge will have to be built. Simalar to that of the Monastery road. But the bridge can be narrower and it will only cross 3lanes

It's not two tight, Goofy drew a map to scale, and his bridge widths wree that of the scale of the existing road.

It can be done:p I doubt your in any top position seriously, especially of drawings and arcitecture. Gvien your inhibitions and lack of foresight.

Also I have proven you wrong on this instance. You said the Turnpike would work ffine. It's turned out to be a disaster and no improvement form before. Tailbacks were always caused at this spot at rush hour.

No it goes back further than Longmile.

rameire

mysterious wrote: »

So I was right.

It would of being cheaper to build it then than now.
Longmile road and turnpike is getting busier. ALL OUTBOUND TRAFFIC should be freeflowing especially. The stretch from Longmile to Redcow is the most busiest.

Seriously a bridge will have to be built. Simalar to that of the Monastery road. But the bridge can be narrower and it will only cross 3lanes

It's not two tight, Goofy drew a map to scale, and his bridge widths wree that of the scale of the existing road.

It can be done:p I doubt your in any top position seriously, especially of drawings and arcitecture. Gvien your inhibitions and lack of foresight.

Also I have proven you wrong on this instance. You said the Turnpike would work ffine. It's turned out to be a disaster and no improvement form before. Tailbacks were always caused at this spot at rush hour.

No it goes back further than Longmile.

believe what you want.

dubhthach

Upgrading the N7 to motorway standard would be a waste of money given the fact that there are more dangerous stretchs of road that need work on.
For example the N11 before Arklow where several people have been killed over the last couple of years and which the goverment shamefully delayed the replacement road (along with Newlands Cross) at the last budget.

mysterious

I'm very dissapointed in the short sightness of dublin south city council and the NRA. for squeezing the 5 lane each way back to 3 lane each way just passed the luas overbridge.

This section should be 4lanes each way. including a bus lane.
Traffic is well close to 100,000.

Traffic counters, at Johnstown, is over 70,000 already. So traffic figures approaching Dublin should be well higher. I DO NOT understand this short sightness.

While they are rebuilding this roead, why couldn't they put another lane. They took out the media and replaced this section with a barrier, so there is room, and the outbound lanes has room to expand to four lanes.

The Newlands cross should be 8 lanes in total. or at least 6 lanes including a HS and verges.