Question for the professionals

Rockshamrover

Hi guys and girls.

I only record my own music and at times it can be a pain in the butt especially when things are not going to plan or turning out the way I would like. At the end of the day though, if I don't like something or it's not working I can dump it and move on.

I was just wondering how you professionals are able to cope with working with other peoples music? How are you not driven crazy by listening to other peoples 2nd or 3rd rate songs? How do you manage to stay focused and remain enthusiastic about working on music that you may not actually like?

Do you ever feel like punching the bass player/drummer/guitarist/singer in the face. How do you cope with people who can't play or cannot move up to the next level? I would love to hear your views on this.

Thanks

DamagedTrax

i actually find it easier working with other peoples music for some reason. i guess im over critical of my own.

having said that there are times when some work can drive you mad. you just have to stay focused on the fact that you can only do so much to make it sound better. after all its not your job to write their music for them.

teamdresch

I think if you hate listening to other people's music, find you can't get along with musicians and are frustrated with their technical ability, you most likely won't be an engineer for very long.

Personally, I find the ability to find the good points in every performance, song or idea and focus on them a huge help.
After all, your job is to present the best possible representation of the performance or idea you were hired to work on.

enda roche

i agree the thrill of developing the sound of the recording is the main goal; when you have that outlook from the start it always makes the musicians more confident in you, and they perform better


www.myspace.com/backlanerecordingstudio

dav nagle

If you organize people well there shouldn't be too many 'cringe' moments!
It's all about pumping momentum into people hard and fast!

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

If you organize people well there shouldn't be too many 'cringe' moments!
It's all about pumping momentum into people hard and fast!

unfortunatly it doesnt always translate so well :-(

ever tried recording a band who's drummer couldnt play to a click and a bassist who couldnt play without a click? :eek:

dav nagle

DamagedTrax wrote: »

unfortunatly it doesnt always translate so well :-(

ever tried recording a band who's drummer couldnt play to a click and a bassist who couldnt play without a click? :eek:

Don't record meatballs is the answer, seriously though why bother recording people who cannot play ?

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

Don't record meatballs is the answer, seriously though why bother recording people who cannot play ?

without going into details it was a requirement for something.

but in a commercial situation i agree. ive better people to be spending my time on.

dav nagle

DamagedTrax wrote: »

without going into details it was a requirement for something.

but in a commercial situation i agree. ive better people to be spending my time on.

Well in relation to playing to a click as a tip I suggest that you spend more time working on a click that the drummer/singer/guitarists can really feel. In my experience some musicians are intimidated by the click and often shy away from 'sitting with it' until they find a good groove. Most people can play to a click but if it sounds like a casio 1976 radio alarm clock the musicians are not going to feel it. I program my clicks with reason 4 (Re drum) Feel out the tempo and take it from there.

Welease

DamagedTrax wrote: »

without going into details it was a requirement for something.

but in a commercial situation i agree. ive better people to be spending my time on.

That raises an interesting question (for me at least anyway ), if mid-session it was pretty obvious that a band had little or no talent and no matter what your expertise was, they were going to sound very very poor..

Would you call the session to a halt so as not to be associated with the mess and possibly suffer negative publicity when other people hear it? or would you soldier on, a customer is a customer and it all helps the cash flow?

(there is no right or wrong here, just interested in how different people would react )

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

Well in relation to playing to a click as a tip I suggest that you spend more time working on a click that the drummer/singer/guitarists can really feel. In my experience some musicians are intimidated by the click and often shy away from 'sitting with it' until they find a good groove. Most people can play to a click but if it sounds like a casio 1976 radio alarm clock the musicians are not going to feel it. I program my clicks with reason 4 (Re drum) Feel out the tempo and take it from there.

ill use anything for a click.. a lot of drummers seem to like playing to a drumloop ive found.. whatever gets the job done init.

teamdresch

Welease wrote: »

That raises an interesting question (for me at least anyway ), if mid-session it was pretty obvious that a band had little or no talent and no matter what your expertise was, they were going to sound very very poor..

Finish that session!

Obviously, you need to as diplomatically as possible modify the band's expectations as to what the end result will sound like.
Some people expect miracles from the studio.

Rockshamrover

All very interesting replies.

By the same token, have you ever felt out of your depth by the brilliance of the artist/band you are working with?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

i was guilty of this when i was a green muso ,
I didnt know a thing about shells , tuning , heads , timing , quality of instrument , and technique
or on guitar etc,

youd go into the studio with a biscuit tin drumkit and a plank guitar
and assume the studio would magically make it sound incredible.

and ive been in studios visting sessions where the music and playing has been worse than sh1t .

i always wondered how the studio guys stayed sane , turns out they develop a thick cynical skin and humour and a closed gob .
they make it sound the very best they can - i think studio people are experts in polishing turds - and fair play to them for being able to do it .

whats great though is watching them come to life when a good band and song comes in - i think this helps to keep them sane .
particulary since the studio people have an eaiser job when good talent arrives , as they practically record them selves , with good tone , feel and pitch.

your bread and butter will be the dross in many cases, but after a while ,
you start getting talent booking you that you deserve , if you are commited to improving yourself to get better and better - talent attracts talent .

so use these dodgy ones to skill yourself for the good ones.

and find a good massage parlour to ease the strain ;-)

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

Hi guys and girls.

I only record my own music and at times it can be a pain in the butt especially when things are not going to plan or turning out the way I would like. At the end of the day though, if I don't like something or it's not working I can dump it and move on.

I was just wondering how you professionals are able to cope with working with other peoples music? How are you not driven crazy by listening to other peoples 2nd or 3rd rate songs? How do you manage to stay focused and remain enthusiastic about working on music that you may not actually like?

Do you ever feel like punching the bass player/drummer/guitarist/singer in the face. How do you cope with people who can't play or cannot move up to the next level? I would love to hear your views on this.

Thanks

Yes, I've actually murdered two whole bands and dozens of drummers.

You've actually touched on a very important point.



I know that there are loads of bands I can't work with but that's all part of the deal - part of the Ying of 'being into something' probably is the Yang of 'Not being into something'.

That's healthy and ok in my books.

A lot of what makes a recording session successful happens outside the studio beforehand.

If you know the band is useless, don't work with them, or charge them double to kill the pain.

Otherwise you run the risk of damaging your Soul

I know so many guys who turn into hacks and loose all their enthusiasm because they worked with idiots too long.

A very important part of keeping your enthusiasm up is the ability to say 'No'

old gregg

I was guilty too. The first time I went into a recording studio was in 1986 to record a Tangerine Dream type concept album based on the 'Book of Revelation'. All I had with me were some vague ideas, a bag of weed and a suitable lack of haircut. The results of that recording session have been firmly buried at the bottom of a box of tapes for the last 20 years, never to reappear. Lesson learned.

Rockshamrover

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Yes, I've actually murdered two whole bands and dozens of drummers.

You've actually touched on a very important point.



I know that there are loads of bands I can't work with but that's all part of the deal - part of the Ying of 'being into something' probably is the Yang of 'Not being into something'.

That's healthy and ok in my books.

A lot of what makes a recording session successful happens outside the studio beforehand.

If you know the band is useless, don't work with them, or charge them double to kill the pain.

Otherwise you run the risk of damaging your Soul

I know so many guys who turn into hacks and loose all their enthusiasm because they worked with idiots too long.

A very important part of keeping your enthusiasm up is the ability to say 'No'

Hey Paul that's a great answer. It's probably the only way to stay sane if you are in it for the long haul.

studiorat

That's a question I get asked all the time.
You'd be absolutely mad to go into a studio without sussing out the band first. I've had a few situations where I've pulled the gig after an hour and suggested they do a little more work before they go to the studio.

If it's just a question of the music not being you'r cup of tea, that doesn't really happen. Nearly everything has at least one redeeming feature.

PaulBrewer

studiorat wrote: »

Nearly everything has at least one redeeming feature.

That's true. I've made hundreds of terrible recordings done by very personable people!