E01 Belfast to Rosslare Motorway/Dual Carriageway

Road-Hog

According to South East Radio yesterday who were interviewing an NRA representative, by 20?? the above route will be complete, the section between Enniscorthy and Rosslare is going through route selection at the moment and should be ready for construction in the latter end of 2012. They also reported that the Dual Carriageway/Motorway between Clough and Enniscorthy is advancing to CPO/Oral hearing stage in the next couple of weeks.............so by 20?? (99 maybe) people from the south east region will be able to choose from 2 motorways/dual carriageways to Dublin i.e M9 or M11.........

marmurr1916

Good news. Hopefully it'll be done by 2015 along with the Newry bypass upgrade (when is that due to finish?) and the dualling of the A8 from the end of the A8 (M) to Larne. The latter is one of the road projects in Northern Ireland that we've given a few hundred million quid towards.

Chris_533976

And yet still there'll be the gap that the goverment cut the funding for, probably.

mysterious

Not a chance.

The N20 will be getting priority after the inter urbans.
With the Tuam to Gort going ahead and the M7 plus the Limerick tunnel coming on stream next year. This will further put strain on the N20.

The N20 is in dire state at the minute. It needs attention. It was already put on the back burner since the M9 fiasco.:rolleyes: The N18 is getting attention thankfully at the minute.

Bards

mysterious wrote: »

Not a chance.

The N20 will be getting priority after the inter urbans.
With the Tuam to Gort going ahead and the M7 plus the Limerick tunnel coming on stream next year. This will further put strain on the N20.

The N20 is in dire state at the minute. It needs attention. It was already put on the back burner since the M9 fiasco.:rolleyes: The N18 is getting attention thankfully at the minute.

Will you get over this M9 fixation you have. it is being built - end of story

icdg

Chris_533976 wrote: »

And yet still there'll be the gap that the goverment cut the funding for, probably.

The problem is that there is no towns on this gap who have residents associations/town councils etc crying out for it to be bypassed. This makes it harder to politically justify it over other projects. It should definitely be done on safety grounds however - having this short strech of very windy S2 in the middle of hundreds of miles of dual carriageway makes very little sense. The recession will probably delay it for years, however.

D.L.R.

icdg wrote: »

The problem is that there is no towns on this gap who have residents associations/town councils etc crying out for it to be bypassed. This makes it harder to politically justify it over other projects. It should definitely be done on safety grounds however - having this short strech of very windy S2 in the middle of hundreds of miles of dual carriageway makes very little sense. The recession will probably delay it for years, however.

Yes its quite the unfortunate project this one. If the world economy had held together for just 12 more months it would've made construction. But now the traffic problems are being solved as if by magic anyway...

Chris_533976

mysterious wrote: »

Not a chance.

The N20 will be getting priority after the inter urbans.
With the Tuam to Gort going ahead and the M7 plus the Limerick tunnel coming on stream next year. This will further put strain on the N20.

The N20 is in dire state at the minute. It needs attention. It was already put on the back burner since the M9 fiasco.:rolleyes: The N18 is getting attention thankfully at the minute.

If the N17/N18 PPP does well (I have no idea whether it'll do well or be a disaster), then the N25 New Ross/Enniscorthy one and the two M20 PPP projects will be the next priorities.

A lot rides on the N17/N18 really. If the PPP tender goes well, then the other 3 PPPs will probably be tendered for as soon as they're ready to go (soon, as the M20 is really being pushed). If the N17/N18 doesnt pass, then its the dustbin for any road schemes for 5-10 years. Nothing is going to get direct government funding for a bit so the PPP is the only way to go for now.

But Spongey posted some pretty depressing (although probably accurate) predictions on how he thinks the N17/N18 one will be a disaster.

spacetweek

Chris_533976 wrote: »

If the N17/N18 PPP does well (I have no idea whether it'll do well or be a disaster), then the N25 New Ross/Enniscorthy one and the two M20 PPP projects will be the next priorities.

I would actually see Enniscorthy, as it's PPP, happening soon but Arklow/Wicklow is less certain. This would result in the ridiculous situation whereby we work on the section which is further from Dublin first.

mysterious

Bards wrote: »

Will you get over this M9 fixation you have. it is being built - end of story

I was making a point, end of discussion. !

marmurr1916

spacetweek wrote: »

I would actually see Enniscorthy, as it's PPP, happening soon but Arklow/Wicklow is less certain. This would result in the ridiculous situation whereby we work on the section which is further from Dublin first.

And working on the section furthest from Dublin first is ludicrous because?

Pisser Dignam

marmurr1916 wrote: »

And working on the section furthest from Dublin first is ludicrous because?

because its less important.

marmurr1916

Pisser Dignam wrote: »

because its less important.

Because?

Chris_533976

In this case yes, the Enniscorthy bypass is less important than the deathtrap that the N11 gap is.

Bards

Chris_533976 wrote: »

In this case yes, the Enniscorthy bypass is less important than the deathtrap that the N11 gap is.

N30/N11 around Enniscorthy is not a deathtrap???????

Chris_533976

Maybe, and there are a hell of a lot of roads in the country that are deathtraps. But the N11 gap, sandwiched between two DCs, is one of the worst roads for safety and general driving-ness. The gap should definately be tackled before the Enniscorthy bypass, I have no doubt about that.

L1011

If the Enniscorthy bypass gets built first it'll leave us with two caps (Enniscorthy to Clogh and it); but seeing as thats a very small gap it could easily be tacked on with the Enniscorthy scheme and we'd be left with a Cumbernald Gap situation, but even worse. Two lenghty DCs (motorways by year end now...) ending and winding through a forest on a twisty S2; people who've been on the DC since south of Enniscorthy will likely press on speed wise through the forest section...

spacetweek

MYOB wrote: »

If the Enniscorthy bypass gets built first it'll leave us with two caps (Enniscorthy to Clogh and it); but seeing as thats a very small gap it could easily be tacked on with the Enniscorthy scheme and we'd be left with a Cumbernald Gap situation, but even worse. Two lenghty DCs (motorways by year end now...) ending and winding through a forest on a twisty S2; people who've been on the DC since south of Enniscorthy will likely press on speed wise through the forest section...

I think the Enniscorthy-Clogh section is indeed lumped in with the rest, i'm under the impression that the PPP covering this consists of:

- New Ross
- Enniscorthy Bypasses - western and eastern
- Clogh-Enniscorthy

nordydan

spacetweek wrote: »

I think the Enniscorthy-Clogh section is indeed lumped in with the rest, i'm under the impression that the PPP covering this consists of:

- New Ross
- Enniscorthy Bypasses - western and eastern
- Clogh-Enniscorthy

Yes I think this is the case. There was a section of the N30 updates a few years ago, I believe the frist two of these three schemes will complete the job on either side.

marmurr1916

Both right. The Co. Wexford PPP scheme will consist of a New Ross bypass and a motorway from Clogh to Oilgate, incorporating a bypass of Enniscorthy:

COUNTY WEXFORD PPP PROJECT

INCORPORATING
A, N25 New Ross By-Pass and Second River Crossing
B, M11 Gorey to Enniscorthy Project
(including M11 Clogh to Enniscorthy & M11 Enniscorthy Bypass)

The three projects, that were being progressed separately, now form one, non-toll PPP Project. This major project will be the biggest infrastructure project ever undertaken in County Wexford. The CPO/EIS for A & B will be published by late spring 2009 and the statutory process for the overall project we expect to be completed by December 2009. Procurement of the PPP partner will then immediately be pursued and construction on the entire project will commence by late 2010/early 2011.

The following is a brief summary of the present position in relation to the three elements of the Project -


(A) NEW ROSS BY-PASS AND SECOND RIVER CROSSING

An Bord Pleanala have now approved of the EIS & CPO for this element of the project. We will now await the completion of the statutory process for element B before proceeding to procurement.

(B) M11 GOREY TO ENNISCORTHY

The Ground Investigations on the revised north-eastern section of the N11 element of the bypass have now been completed and the results of the investigations are now being assessed.

The final Preliminary Ground Investigation works for the section of the N11 from Toom to the Gorey Bypass are ongoing and landowners are being kept informed on an ongoing basis. This is the final phase of the Preliminary Ground Investigations for the overall scheme.

There are other major road improvements planned for that area, including a new road from Rosslare to Oilgate (to tie-in with the southern end of the M11 scheme) and improvements on the N30 from the eastern end of the New Ross bypass to near Clonroche (to tie-in with the existing section of improved N30 between there and Enniscorthy).

Eventually the Dublin to Wexford route will be M11, assuming the gap from south of Rathnew to Arklow is completed and assuming the current proposed motorway redesignations of the existing N11 HQDC sections go ahead.

The N25 looks like it'll be HQDC from Cork to Youghal, 2+2 from Youghal to Co. Waterford (possibly HQDC from west of Dungarvan to Kilmeaden), HQDC from west of Kilmeaden to east of New Ross and 2+2 from there to Rosslare (assuming an online upgrade of the existing N25 from there to the start of the N25 section of the Rosslare-Oilgate scheme).

It's possible that the HQDC sections of the N25 might be redesignated as motorways when the entire route upgrade is completed.

nordydan

I posted an update of this on SABRE. Yes I would like to think the schemes east from Cork city and around Waterford city will be upgraded to motorway at some point.

mysterious

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Both right. The Co. Wexford PPP scheme will consist of a New Ross bypass and a motorway from Clogh to Oilgate, incorporating a bypass of Enniscorthy:



There are other major road improvements planned for that area, including a new road from Rosslare to Oilgate (to tie-in with the southern end of the M11 scheme) and improvements on the N30 from the eastern end of the New Ross bypass to near Clonroche (to tie-in with the existing section of improved N30 between there and Enniscorthy).

Eventually the Dublin to Wexford route will be M11, assuming the gap from south of Rathnew to Arklow is completed and assuming the current proposed motorway redesignations of the existing N11 HQDC sections go ahead.

The N25 looks like it'll be HQDC from Cork to Youghal, 2+2 from Youghal to Co. Waterford (possibly HQDC from west of Dungarvan to Kilmeaden), HQDC from west of Kilmeaden to east of New Ross and 2+2 from there to Rosslare (assuming an online upgrade of the existing N25 from there to the start of the N25 section of the Rosslare-Oilgate scheme).

It's possible that the HQDC sections of the N25 might be redesignated as motorways when the entire route upgrade is completed.

N25 doesn't need to be motorway.

The idea that every national primary route be designated to motorway is just daft....

invincibleirish

mysterious wrote: »

N25 and N11 doesn't need to be motorway.

The idea that every national primary route be designated to motorway is a product of poor governance/celtic tiger largesse/parochial desires...

Fixed.

Bards

mysterious wrote: »

N25 doesn't need to be motorway.

The idea that every national primary route be designated to motorway is just daft....

it is not daft, it protects the investment from councillors who see it as an oppurtunity to increase rateable income through bad planning by allowing retail parks to spring up along the route

invincibleirish

Bards wrote: »

it is not daft, it protects the investment from councillors who see it as an oppurtunity to increase rateable income through bad planning by allowing retail parks to spring up along the route

Interesting, at local level you are against corrupt gombeen man politics. But at national level?...

mysterious

Bards wrote: »

it is not daft, it protects the investment from councillors who see it as an oppurtunity to increase rateable income through bad planning by allowing retail parks to spring up along the route

Bards, you scream local gobeenism. It's not even funny anymore.

I don't see the N21 (a local road near me with traffic comparable to N25) becoming a motorway. Where the f*** you think the money is going to fund all these motorways. Another road is the N17 and N22 I don't see the logic in those routes becoming motorways for the craic either. So I don't think the N25/N11 should get special treatment. But as you all know Bards comes to the rescue again with his local agenda. geeee.

There is already two motorways feeding the SE ffs. Once the interurbans and Atlantic Corridor is done. We will have one of the most densiest motorway networks in Europe. To be quite frank I wouldn't like all our raods turning into motorways. We are a population of only 4.5million. Get real.

Get off this baloney please. If you want blue sign posted roads, every inch of the SE then you pay for it. See what your response is to that.

I really don't get this country at all. Bards, you should check the other thread for the midland airport. He screams the same local agenda just like you. Hense none of it make actual sense either.

Bards

where did I say that all roads in the country should be Motorway???

However I agree that sections of newly built HQDC such as the soon to be completed Waterford City Bypass be designated Motorway. It is daft that this is going to be an all purpose DC, and for your info it is going to be tolled so the people using it such as myself will pay for it

you read what you want to read into my posts, but I know what I said and didn't say

again play the ball and NOT the man if you have to throw insults you have lost the argument

spacetweek

Pfft. When a road is built to motorway standards (HQDC) you make it a motorway, end of story. It is a motorway, so call it one. To not do so is downright stupid and has nothing to do with politics or regional favouritism - it's just common sense. When you spend so much money you should get your maximum value.

This nonse of building motorway-standard DCs and not giving them the legal status they deserve goes on in Britain but we shouldn't be copying them.

mysterious

spacetweek wrote: »

Pfft. When a road is built to motorway standards (HQDC) you make it a motorway, end of story. It is a motorway, so call it one. To not do so is downright stupid and has nothing to do with politics or regional favouritism - it's just common sense. When you spend so much money you should get your maximum value.

This nonse of building motorway-standard DCs and not giving them the legal status they deserve goes on in Britain but we shouldn't be copying them.

Spacetweek. I'm very concise and to the point of my argument. When I mean no motorway. I mean no motorway, HQDC and all sorts of names attached to it respectively the same reason applied. There are other types of road here and can be used to fit certain roads. There is type 2 and type 3 dual carriegways too. You can have a DC road with some at grade junctions where traffic is minimal. The idea of the N11 south of Gorey and the rural sections of the N25 becoming motorway is nuts. It's just madness to think any country would build these motorways for the sake of white elephant and local gobeenism balony.

I don't believe the N25 should be motorway. I don't think the N11 south of Gorey justfies one either. At Enniscorthy traffic dies down. Commuter traffic is non existent as that dies down at Gorey. The N30 splits off to the east. And you have the only population centres of Wexford and Rosslare. Traffic at Rosslare barely exeeds 7,000. The wexford bypass carries little traffic and is generally locally generated or traffic heading to Rosslare.

pop max and I mean max of the entire south east corner of the county 40,000 If even that would be serve by a redicoulous motorway M11. It is absurd to spend this kind of money on such a low traffic route to such a low population region.

The M9 is eveing pushing the limits to have a motorway, it has it's motorway so that over with. But there has to be a line crossed somewhere. Every town and region cannot have a motorway for the sake of buildng one. It's madness. I just don't understand this country at all. It seems after a 100 years of independance we still can't run a country properly. On good times and when money was plentiful we still ****ed it up.
Is painsteakingly redicoulous and outragous.


This is not the first time, you let your anger and outright temperment get the better of you and jump the gun here.

invincibleirish

Hear hear to Mysterious' above post.

The most curious thing in recent years is people calling for M-way designations on roads to protect from those nasty corrupt gombeen politicians.

Of course these same people had no problem in voting for same corrupt gombeen pols to run our country and *deliver* for their consituency.

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

Spacetweek. I'm very concise and to the point of my argument. When I mean no motorway. I mean no motorway,

But there won't be an M25, and the M11 is only being built south as far as Enniscorthy. I totally agree that the Wexford/Rosslare area, actually all of south Wexford county, doesn't justify motorway. But then, it's not being given one, so what exactly is the argument?

mysterious wrote:

I just don't understand this country at all. It seems after a 100 years of independance we still can't run a country properly. On good times and when money was plentiful we still ****ed it up.
Is painsteakingly redicoulous and outragous.

Nope.We'll have to agree to disagree.

mysterious wrote:

This is not the first time, you let your anger and outright temperment get the better of you and jump the gun here.

You might want to reconsider this bit; it's just too rich coming from you. I'm always level headed but you stamp your feet when someone doesn't agree with you.

Bards

mysterious wrote: »

Spacetweek. I'm very concise and to the point of my argument. When I mean no motorway. I mean no motorway, HQDC and all sorts of names attached to it respectively the same reason applied. There are other types of road here and can be used to fit certain roads. There is type 2 and type 3 dual carriegways too. You can have a DC road with some at grade junctions where traffic is minimal. The idea of the N11 south of Gorey and the rural sections of the N25 becoming motorway is nuts. It's just madness to think any country would build these motorways for the sake of white elephant and local gobeenism balony.

I don't believe the N25 should be motorway. I don't think the N11 south of Gorey justfies one either. At Enniscorthy traffic dies down. Commuter traffic is non existent as that dies down at Gorey. The N30 splits off to the east. And you have the only population centres of Wexford and Rosslare. Traffic at Rosslare barely exeeds 7,000. The wexford bypass carries little traffic and is generally locally generated or traffic heading to Rosslare.

pop max and I mean max of the entire south east corner of the county 40,000 If even that would be serve by a redicoulous motorway M11. It is absurd to spend this kind of money on such a low traffic route to such a low population region.

The M9 is eveing pushing the limits to have a motorway, it has it's motorway so that over with. But there has to be a line crossed somewhere. Every town and region cannot have a motorway for the sake of buildng one. It's madness. I just don't understand this country at all. It seems after a 100 years of independance we still can't run a country properly. On good times and when money was plentiful we still ****ed it up.
Is painsteakingly redicoulous and outragous.


This is not the first time, you let your anger and outright temperment get the better of you and jump the gun here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055521123&page=8

please see post 113 in the above link and explain your sudden change of mind?????

road_high

mysterious wrote: »

The wexford bypass carries little traffic and is generally locally generated or traffic heading to Rosslare.

I think it's a slight exaggeration to say "little traffic". The roundabouts are a constant snarl up at rush hour. No figures to hand but my experience has always been of a very busy road around Wexford. Particularly where the N11 and N25 merge.

mysterious

Bards wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055521123&page=8

please see post 113 in the above link and explain your sudden change of mind?????

Waterford bypass was and is going to be reclassfied. I'm talking about the N25 between Yoghal and Waterford and the N11 south of Gorey where traffic is under 12,000 a.a.d.t. These roads don't justify a motorway.

The Waterford bypass I'm ok with been a motorway since its a toll road.

mysterious

mfitzy wrote: »

I think it's a slight exaggeration to say "little traffic". The roundabouts are a constant snarl up at rush hour. No figures to hand but my experience has always been of a very busy road around Wexford. Particularly where the N11 and N25 merge.

Oh I wouln't take your opinion as fact, your known to exaggerate:D

Snarl up at a roundabout, a town has about 15,000. The road can carry that on the existing bypass. Any maps ive seen, google earth and all other satelite images, I seen about 5 cars on it's whole lenght.


I've been on three times and it was relatively quiet. The roundabout were the only sections that i seen noticable amout of traffic on it. Between the bypass and Rosslare only 7,000 vehicles a day use it.

The N25/N11 roundabout is the busiest section, and half of it proceeds to the town, while the other half goes down the bypass.

Please don't make an issue out of something that doesn't exist.

road_high

I couldn't care less what you think of my opinion to be perfectly honest .

I actually drive the road regularly instead of actually counting cars on google maps.

mysterious

mfitzy wrote: »

I couldn't care less what you think of my opinion to be perfectly honest .

I actually drive the road regularly instead of actually counting cars on google maps.

Oh well sigh.:D

I'm sure the gridlock experienced there was out of this world:D

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

I'm talking about the N25 between Yoghal and Waterford and the N11 south of Gorey where traffic is under 12,000 a.a.d.t. These roads don't justify a motorway.

That's lucky then, since they never said they were going to build any there.

Cian R

In 2003 the a.a.d.t. at the junction between the N25 and N11 (at the Maldron/Quality Hotel) was 11,670.
Also in 2003 the a.a.d.t. at the junction with the R733/Duncannon Line by the Whitford House was 10,293.

this information is on page 13 and 18 of this link:
http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/Transportation/file,3676,en.PDF

mysterious

Cian R wrote: »

In 2003 the a.a.d.t. at the junction between the N25 and N11 (at the Maldron/Quality Hotel) was 11,670.
Also in 2003 the a.a.d.t. at the junction with the R733/Duncannon Line by the Whitford House was 10,293.

this information is on page 13 and 18 of this link:
http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/Transportation/file,3676,en.PDF

Yes on the busy sections, goes down to 6,000 on most of it sections. After the Wexford bypass it goes even lower.