The island is ALWAYS moving?

Sad Professor

There was already some discussion of this on the episode thread but I thought it was worth branching off into its own thread.

Anyway this is what Miss Hawking said in "316":

ELOISE: Well, this fellow presumed, and correctly, as it turned out, that the Island was always moving. Why do you think you were never rescued? Now while the movements of the Island seem random, this man and his team created a series of equations which tell us, with a high degree of probability, where it is going to be at a certain point... in time. Windows, as it were, that while open, provide a route back. Unfortunately, these windows don't stay open for very long. Yours closes... in 36 hours.

We were trying to figure out how this fits with Ben turning the wheel last season. It seemed to contradict what Ben said then:

BEN: You heard John. We're going to move the island.
HURLEY: Right. And how are we gonna do that?
BEN: Very carefully.
HURLEY: Well, if you could move the island whenever you wanted, why didn't you just move it before the psychos with guns got here?
BEN: Because doing it is both dangerous and unpredictable. It's a measure of last resort.

Seemed like maybe the writers had changed their minds or only came up with the moving-island thing recently, but then I can across this:

Carlton Cuse: I would like to know, Damon. And this is called "Moving" from "Marvelo18": "I was thinking… does the Island move? How does Eko's short range plane go from somewhere near Africa to somewhere near Australia? Maybe the Island is forever moving. Just a thought."
Damon Lindelof: I think that's a fascinating thought. And I couldn't possibly answer that question, 'cause if we were to reveal something so ginormous as if the Island were moving…
Carlton Cuse: In a podcast. They would fire us.
Damon Lindelof: They would fire us instantly. And also, it would be much cooler if we would reveal something like that on the show.

They said this in a podcast in November 2006, around the time 3x06 aired (transcript and audio here). So they must have had the moving-island thing planned after all.

There's also the question of how this ties in with the The Swan and the button-pushing and the possible effect of the hatch implosion.

So any thoughts? Theories?

thecommander

Sad Professor wrote: »

There's also the question of how this ties in with the The Swan and the button-pushing and the possible effect of the hatch implosion.

My missus came up with the idea that the button was being pushed to regulate the movements of the island, so Dharma could calculate where it would be next. If you didn't, the movement was random.

James Forde

I was thinking the exact same thing last night (O.P that is)

fugazied

Absolutely, I mean

The map room which shows the swinging needle is designed to find the island in it's new location

Requiem4adream

Sad Professor wrote: »

There was already some discussion of this on the episode thread but I thought it was worth branching off into its own thread.

Anyway this is what Miss Hawking said in "316":



We were trying to figure out how this fits with Ben turning the wheel last season. It seemed to contradict what Ben said then:



Seemed like maybe the writers had changed their minds or only came up with the moving-island thing recently, but then I can across this:



They said this in a podcast in November 2006, around the time 3x06 aired (transcript and audio here). So they must have had the moving-island thing planned after all.

There's also the question of how this ties in with the The Swan and the button-pushing and the possible effect of the hatch implosion.

So any thoughts? Theories?

The only way i'd be able to reconcile Miss Hawkings quote with the Ben-Hurley convo is this: The island is always moving, uncontrolled by anyone, on it's own volition. To alter the course of this, for someone in particular to change the path of the movement, could be what Ben is talking about.

However, as i said in some the episode review threads, if the island is constantly moving it really becomes difficult retrospectively to explain an awful lot of stuff in a manner that makes sense.

stevejazzx

Requiem4adream wrote: »

The only way i'd be able to reconcile Miss Hawkings quote with the Ben-Hurley convo is this: The island is always moving, uncontrolled by anyone, on it's own volition. To alter the course of this, for someone in particular to change the path of the movement, could be what Ben is talking about.

However, as i said in some the episode review threads, if the island is ut constantly moving it really becomes difficult retrospectively to explain , than awful lot of stuff in a manner that makes sense.

If the island is moving, is it moving relative to something else?
The earth moves relative to the sun, now we know that the island used to have a huge spinning em core (inside the swan) this could explain why it gravitated around or toward another larger body..so if the island was originally a meterorite for example this would explain the all the unusal em stuff which in turn explains all the healing & time travel etc. If the swan is completely destroyed then how does the island move now and what is casuing it move (apart from the donkey wheel). I iamgine the island is a big time machine and it seems the wirters have chosen the Einstein type time travel i.e there is a a fixed time line which is already created and theoretically a person or thing travel to any part of it (in newer quantum type time travel the time line is made almost instantaneously as we experience it). But when the Island jumps it isn't visible; but when John resets the donkey wheel to the center the time shifts stop? - is it now visible and is it still moving?
But the Island itslef seems to need every person who has ever experiened it in order to course correct - the people who leave the Island are course corrected and killed? that's why it was such a big thing that some of bens people were able to come and go (the sub?) and why John always told Jack that they never leave the Island. The frozen donkey wheel then must somehow keep the island anchored in some respect in either time or location or both, perhaps this is what darma achieved (we see them drilling in the season opener) it seems to do somethig similar to turning the failsafe key in the swan i.e discharge a lot of energy. the wheel is frozen and the orchid is a greenhouse, that seems to inidcate temperature regulation, perhaps the wheel regulates the temperature of core?

brennaldo

Requiem4adream wrote: »

The only way i'd be able to reconcile Miss Hawkings quote with the Ben-Hurley convo is this: The island is always moving, uncontrolled by anyone, on it's own volition. To alter the course of this, for someone in particular to change the path of the movement, could be what Ben is talking about.

However, as i said in some the episode review threads, if the island is constantly moving it really becomes difficult retrospectively to explain an awful lot of stuff in a manner that makes sense.

i was confused about this myself but your idea there does seem to make much sence

purple_hatstand

Are there not different types of movement here?

The island had to be moved to protect it from someone who had found it. And yet it's moving all the time? Surely then, the island must have a predictable pattern of continuous movement. When someone discovers the pattern (and therefore, the location of the island), it has to be changed.

All of that I can understand (to a point). I'm still confused though. When Ben moved the island at the end of season4, it disappeared in space. When Locke found the Wheel, it seemed to be stuck between two positions moving in a jarred, broken sort of way. We are led to believe that this is an explanation for the 'time flashes'. So.......does moving the wheel have an effect over space or time or both?

kevmy

It was said the island is always moving and that Dharma used the lamppost to originally find the island.

However maybe once Dharma found the island they found a way of controlling/predicting where it go. This could have been done through the Swan station. When the Swan blew up we say the sky go purple exactly the same as it does now when it moves in time/space.

I reckon the island moves randomly in space if left alone (this explains polar bears etc.) and that Dharma controlled this movement in space by using the Swan station. When Des used the failsafe key it moved in space and allowed Penny to see it when it popped up in it's new position.

However the time jumps of the island are controlled by the Orchid station not the Swan station. The donkey wheel was used to keep it the same time - which explains why the same time passed on the island for the O6 as it did in the outside world despite the Swan blowing up (this would only change the island position in space NOT time).

When Ben turned the wheel it jumped the island in time however the wheel got stuck and the island kept hopping in time so Locke had to put it back on it's axis to stop the island jumping in time. However this landed the island and Sawyer and co. back in the 70's with the Dharma crew when all the stations were being built.

The time jumps Sawyer and co. experienced had an effect on the O6 as well but they didn't realise it as they were off island and once they flew over the island as it jumped it space (as the island is now doing due to the Swan blowing up) because the window was closing (which is why they had to chose particularly flight 316). This phased up the O6 with the island crew and shot them back to the 70's.

This had no effect on Locke cos he was dead or Ben cos he wasn't on the original flight with the O6 and the island crew so he wouldn't have been phased up.

purple_hatstand

I just posted these links on the episode 7 thread - I think they may have some relevance here also...


Check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_of_dharma

very interesting.