question

anladmór

why cant europe have films like transformers and stuff like that?

Brimmy

We do get the films... or do you mean why can't we make them?

Some big budget films are shot in Europe like Harry Potter and the Bond films but the majority tend to be shot in Canada due to tax breaks and incentives.

amcalester

Not enough money, the American market is the biggest market so thats where the big blockbusters get made for.

Say a Transformers type movie gets made in Europe in a European language you think the yanks would watch a dubed version? Would you for that matter? Action films dont realy work with subtitles.

Besides Transformers was sh!t.

Have a look at Nightwatch and Daywatch, they're Russian.

anladmór

yeah i love dubbed film..well i need to know at least some of the language, like i could watch a billion french films..but yeah economies of scale i think they call it? european market too fragmented

L31mr0d

I guess I understand where the OP is coming from, I've wondered it myself actually. Why we don't have an equivalent to Hollywood on this side of the Atlantic with equal size budgets. I mean I only really take an action, blockbuster or sci-fi/fantasy movie seriously if its being backed by a US studio as I know they'll have the budget to do it justice.

Brimmy

Europe used too up until the 1920s or so. Then with the wars directors, writers and actors all shifted towards Hollywood leaving cinema on this side depleted. If you look back far enough there were classic "big" films made like Battleship Potemkin and The Cabinet of Dr Caligari.

Fysh

L31mr0d wrote: »

I mean I only really take an action, blockbuster or sci-fi/fantasy movie seriously if its being backed by a US studio as I know they'll have the budget to do it justice.

It all depends on what you're looking for in a sci-fi/fantasy film, tbh - from your post I'm guessing you mean more the Matrix/Terminator end of the spectrum; at the other end of the spectrum you get stuff like Primer (a fine sci-fi film and made for $7000). Then there's the likes of Nightwatch, an entirely Russian-funded affair and the most interesting fantasy film I've seen in years. (Shame that Bekmambetov directing the dismal Wanted may mean we don't get to see a Twilight Watch movie though).

Sadly, the whole refusal to read subtitles is probably the biggest factor in this, due to the perception that the same audience that wants spectacular films also refuses to do anything as cerebral as reading when they've gone to the cinema :rolleyes:

Pigman II

anladmór wrote: »

why cant europe have films like transformers and stuff like that?

Probably because no-one does moronic like the Americans.

Brimmy

I thought he said they weren't going to do Twilight Watch?

As for European Sci-fi I have a copy of Time Crimes I keep meaning to get around to watching.. It's a Spanish film about time travel, shot on a miniscule budget that is meant to be fantastic.

Big budget does not equal good Sci-fi. Just look at B5.

Fysh

Brimmy wrote: »

I thought he said they weren't going to do Twilight Watch?

As for European Sci-fi I have a copy of Time Crimes I keep meaning to get around to watching.. It's a Spanish film about time travel, shot on a miniscule budget that is meant to be fantastic.

Big budget does not equal good Sci-fi. Just look at B5.

The last I heard about Twilight Watch was that the funding was going to come from Fox Searchlight but the main sticking point was Timur Bekmambetov suddenly deciding that after Wanted he had worn out his interest in fantasy material dealing with themes like destiny. Boo.

I just saw Timecrimes this past weekend and it's great, on a par with Primer in terms of handling the concepts well rather than relying on effects and action sequences. It's on a par with Primer in terms of films that handle the internal consistency of time travel well.

Brimmy

Primer's still on my list of 'to see' films. Last time I tried to get a copy I was told it would have been 30 odd euro to order in from HMV. That was about a year or two ago though so I might have to check out Amazon as soon as finals are over for it.

Fysh

If you enjoyed Timecrimes you'll most likely enjoy Primer, they have a lot in common while also being different enough that you won't feel you're watching the same film both times. Amazon have it going reasonably cheap at the moment, and I can't recommend it enough as intelligent sci-fi films go.

Dont be at yourself

Sunshine was another recent fantastic film, made in the UK.

L31mr0d

Fysh wrote: »

It all depends on what you're looking for in a sci-fi/fantasy film, tbh - from your post I'm guessing you mean more the Matrix/Terminator end of the spectrum; at the other end of the spectrum you get stuff like Primer (a fine sci-fi film and made for $7000). Then there's the likes of Nightwatch, an entirely Russian-funded affair and the most interesting fantasy film I've seen in years. (Shame that Bekmambetov directing the dismal Wanted may mean we don't get to see a Twilight Watch movie though).

Sadly, the whole refusal to read subtitles is probably the biggest factor in this, due to the perception that the same audience that wants spectacular films also refuses to do anything as cerebral as reading when they've gone to the cinema :rolleyes:

I've seen all of those movies and lately I've been watching more subtitled movies than english (catching up on a lot of my asian backlog) but the production quality is, more or less, always lower (exceptions being the likes Curse of the Golden Flower.. etc). I'm not doubting that Europe and Asia make good movies, I'm wondering why we don't have studios that have budgets that equal the US studios? Also, I think this abhorrence to subtitles is very americentric. I would say most Europeans (especially non-native english EU countries) would have no problems with a big budget movie that was subtitled to their language, regardless of the language it was originally recorded in.

Dont be at yourself

I would say most Europeans (especially non-native english EU countries) would have no problems with a big budget movie that was subtitled to their language, regardless of the language it was originally recorded in.

That's a debateable point. Some European countries, such as Germany, are more subtitle-averse than the mainstream UK & Ireland market!

Blisterman

L31mr0d wrote: »

I guess I understand where the OP is coming from, I've wondered it myself actually. Why we don't have an equivalent to Hollywood on this side of the Atlantic with equal size budgets. I mean I only really take an action, blockbuster or sci-fi/fantasy movie seriously if its being backed by a US studio as I know they'll have the budget to do it justice.

Well, there's about 30 different languages in use throughout Europe, so it'd be very hard for people from different countries to come together and make a film like that, which would suit everyone.

Fysh

L31mr0d wrote: »

I've seen all of those movies and lately I've been watching more subtitled movies than english (catching up on a lot of my asian backlog) but the production quality is, more or less, always lower (exceptions being the likes Curse of the Golden Flower.. etc). I'm not doubting that Europe and Asia make good movies, I'm wondering why we don't have studios that have budgets that equal the US studios? Also, I think this abhorrence to subtitles is very americentric. I would say most Europeans (especially non-native english EU countries) would have no problems with a big budget movie that was subtitled to their language, regardless of the language it was originally recorded in.

It depends on what you mean by "production values" - using Nightwatch and Daywatch as examples, I preferred the first one because Daywatch has more signs of your typical American clean-and-polished appearance, whereas Nightwatch felt like it was set in a more real world, for want of a better way to put it.

Even films like Fight Club which proclaim themselves to be more about the squalid and filthy side of life are polished. There are certain areas where that polish and budget pays off - certain types of effects, or lengthy scenes that span a significant geographical area - but creative and intelligent film-making can work around the absence of such budget a lot of the time without harming the film; and if the best thing about a film is its effects then something's gone wrong - the effects should allow the story to be kept in focus, not move your attention away from it.

Regarding the language thing, I know that in Spain it's not uncommon to have English-language films subtitled but I've also seen a good few dubbed, so the whole "averse to foreign languages" thing isn't just the English-speaking market; I suspect that a lot of countries just put up with it due to the sheer amount of cultural exporting that the US is involved in.