Naas Duathlon Race 2/Euro Champs

Bambaata

Does anyone know if TI are taking the results solely from yesterdays race as the qualifying for the Euro Duathlon Champs? I placed well within the 20 per age group which it states qualify but am not sure if it is only that race it was taking or if it was including the first race also? Closing date for applications etc is before race 3 so it definitely doesn't include that from the looks of things.

Also not all the details are filled out on the results eventhough i gave my TI, age-group and club to the organisers? I presume they'll be sending on a completed results sheet to TI?

Also congrats Tunney. I see you had a good race. I was happy enough with my time. I was 9 minutes faster than i was last year. I'd say part of this was down to a quicker run surface as i seem to recall part was on wood chip last year and also the new bike got its first outing.

tunney

Cheers. Had a good day. Not running well at the moment but had a good bike. Was chuffed. Race numbers backed up lab tests. Disappointed with the result but I can't do anything about people doing a team TT.

No idea about the TI questions. Email Kathy who is the head of selectors.

Andrewf20

I think I spotted you Tunney with a red and white Cervelo bike before the start. Wasnt 100% if it was you tho.

Came 73rd. Happy especially with bike section. 1st time I had the racer in a competitive event. The mountain bike is offically retired from these events.

tunney

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I think I spotted you Tunney with a red and white Cervelo bike before the start. Wasnt 100% if it was you tho.

Red and white cervelo with a disc? A bloke looking very paniced cause he stayed up late on the Saturday night and then slept in and was late?

jlang

No idea about the Euro question, but I'll put my event notes here anyway. I enjoyed it as my first duathlon - finished in 68' + a bit. First time riding a racer quickly so as expected the bike was my weak phase, but I did better than I expected. Ran 5 this morning and I could still feel it in the legs.

The second run was my best (comparatively). I was quicker than the bikes around me going uphill, but they pulled away from me on the downhills. In time I should get more comfortable with speed. The turnaround at Blessington was a bit of a disaster. I nearly had to stop trying to get around in the width of the road. Looking forward to trying to move up the rankings next month - I feel should be able to take a bit off the bike and maybe the second run, also I'll see have had a chance to see if cycling shoes has any effect.

Does anyone know how much longer the second run was than the first in distance? Just curious how much slower I ran the second lap.

I see a quick competitor disqualified on the results sheet - why would that be? (Is it related to your quip about a team TT, tunney? Don't answer if it's not appropriate. Well done anyway on a good time.)

tunney

jlang wrote: »

No idea about the Euro question, but I'll put my event notes here anyway. I enjoyed it as my first duathlon - finished in 68' + a bit. First time riding a racer quickly so as expected the bike was my weak phase, but I did better than I expected. Ran 5 this morning and I could still feel it in the legs.

The second run was my best (comparatively). I was quicker than the bikes around me going uphill, but they pulled away from me on the downhills. In time I should get more comfortable with speed. The turnaround at Blessington was a bit of a disaster. I nearly had to stop trying to get around in the width of the road. Looking forward to trying to move up the rankings next month - I feel should be able to take a bit off the bike and maybe the second run, also I'll see have had a chance to see if cycling shoes has any effect.

Does anyone know how much longer the second run was than the first in distance? Just curious how much slower I ran the second lap.

I see a quick competitor disqualified on the results sheet - why would that be? (Is it related to your quip about a team TT, tunney? Don't answer if it's not appropriate. Well done anyway on a good time.)

Well done on the performance.

No - Peter Kerns is a fair and honest biker IMHO. He was DQ'ed as himself and the guy in 1st and 2nd went out a different gate. Peter didn't appeal the decision the other two did and the competition jury found that they didn't get a significant advantage and reinstated the results.
Unfortunately the drafting wasn't dealt with at all.

MadHatter

Just over 66mins for me so happy enough, hope to improve a bit for the next one, especially the first run and bike leg.

Re drafting - when the leaders passed me on their way back to the racecourse I noticed the first 3 were a bit tightly bunched for a TT. I'm no expert, but definitely looked like drafting to me. Surprised they weren't pulled up.

Bambaata

yeah some drafting policing was definitely needed. i was happy enough with my bike though. last year the same course took me 1:09:57 so this years 1:01:14 was definitely a boost that im going in the right direction. I've got the Barcelona marathon this weekend so i hadn't done any specific training for Naas so i am pleasantly surprised by it.

Tunney do you know if many of the Irish head over for those Duathlon champs? I'd like to go but i think it might be a bit much with Valentia the week before and Athy the week after! It would be great for the experience and it would be my first such event abroad which I've always wanted to do but the more i think about it the more i think i wont take this one.

jlang

Bambaata - I think I could have had my bike racked next to yours or at least the guy next to me was also running in Barcelona. If the complete novice in front of you asked to lift up your bike in the mistaken belief that a carbon frame should be feather light instead of just really light and really aerodynamic - that was me. Good luck in the marathon.

Stark

Did 68 mins myself at it. Happy enough as I hadn't been on a bike bar the odd trip to the shops/spin in town in about 3 months and my legs were tired from a hard run on Saturday. Noticed the drafting thing myself. Felt like I was being overtaken by pelotons on a few occasions. I don't think there was much excuse for it as there was plenty of roadspace available for people to keep their distance/overtake. (I've been to the Phoenix Park duathlons and it's harder not to draft there with all the people out on the course).

Really enjoyed the cycle course btw. I was expecting something straight, flat and boring but it turned out to be nice and undulating. Pity my legs weren't fitter, going up the hills is normally where I pass the fancy bikes on my hybrid (should really get a better bike this year).

Bambaata

jlang wrote: »

Bambaata - I think I could have had my bike racked next to yours or at least the guy next to me was also running in Barcelona. If the complete novice in front of you asked to lift up your bike in the mistaken belief that a carbon frame should be feather light instead of just really light and really aerodynamic - that was me. Good luck in the marathon.

Hey, was that on the rack down beside the race course? If so yeah that was me. Yeah they aren't all that light. That was my bikes first race and i was well pleased with it. Learned loads and was happy that i felt comfortable down on the bars the whole way apart from the tight turns

Stark

Yeah my friend's carbon bike weighs about the same as my aluminium bike. The frame itself is probably lighter, but then you have all the components adding most of the weight. Aluminium gives a harsher ride than carbon though.

tunney

MadHatter wrote: »

Just over 66mins for me so happy enough, hope to improve a bit for the next one, especially the first run and bike leg.

Re drafting - when the leaders passed me on their way back to the racecourse I noticed the first 3 were a bit tightly bunched for a TT. I'm no expert, but definitely looked like drafting to me. Surprised they weren't pulled up.

So if you took the first three out (or at least gave them the two minute penalty)............ you can see why I'm pi$$ed.

thirtyfoot

tunney wrote: »

So if you took the first three out (or at least gave them the two minute penalty)............ you can see why I'm pi$$ed.

Thats interesting and I like your style (although I wouldn't put my thoughts on a messageboard . Would you use this as motivation in training or even when you are racing these guys the next time? Can you draw a line under it and move on or will it always be a little niggly thing that you'll hold against them and be in the little black book. Personally, I find these parts of competing the best, the little rivalries that development due to incidents or things said, adds a bit of spice! Not for all though, I coach one guy who focusses too much on others when his biggest rival is himself.

Would any of these guys be reading this and possibly using it as a motivation?

shels4ever

tunney wrote: »

So if you took the first three out (or at least gave them the two minute penalty)............ you can see why I'm pi$$ed.

Just wondered what are the rules in this regard Do you get a warning first then DQ'ed?
Are there guidelines for races in regards to spotting this on a course, must be a hard part of the sport to watch in smaller events?,

Stark

I've often used little grudges against competitors as motivation for training and racing harder. Though my current grudge never seems to be racing any time I'm racing these days... He just stands around at events robbing me of my opportunities. I could feel he was silently mocking me if he actually knew who I was

MadHatter

tunney wrote: »

So if you took the first three out (or at least gave them the two minute penalty)............ you can see why I'm pi$$ed.

Fair enough, I see your point. As I said, I'm no expert, but that's how I read it. But since you were the first to mention it, I gather you've heard same from one or more other sources.

BTW, congrats on a storming bike leg.

jlang

It sounds easy in theory but I'm confused about this drafting business. Say I'm tootling along at my top speed and another rider overtakes me and basically doesn't keep pushing but continues just in front of me at about my speed. Is he supposed to make forward progress until he passes far enough ahead of me or am I supposed to fall back until there's a clear gap between us?

On Sunday there were occasions where I was overtaken by someone who didn't pull away so I left a gap but then someone else overtook me and another, etc. Not saying they were drafting, more that by slowing to leave a gap with the first one, I inadvertently let another couple through and we continued to move without the 7m clear space between us. I of course wanted to reclaim the spot in the middle of the bunch, but I wouldn't have been sure I'd clear everyone in one manouvre. Is this drafting, or just racing?

For a km or so from the last crossroads to the racecourse, there was basically a bunch of about 9 riders not in formation, but still fairly close. As I wasn't in front, was I (or were we) open to a claim that we were drafting?

(tootling probably isn't the right word to use above.)

tunney

jlang wrote: »

It sounds easy in theory but I'm confused about this drafting business. Say I'm tootling along at my top speed and another rider overtakes me and basically doesn't keep pushing but continues just in front of me at about my speed. Is he supposed to make forward progress until he passes far enough ahead of me or am I supposed to fall back until there's a clear gap between us?

On Sunday there were occasions where I was overtaken by someone who didn't pull away so I left a gap but then someone else overtook me and another, etc. Not saying they were drafting, more that by slowing to leave a gap with the first one, I inadvertently let another couple through and we continued to move without the 7m clear space between us. I of course wanted to reclaim the spot in the middle of the bunch, but I wouldn't have been sure I'd clear everyone in one manouvre. Is this drafting, or just racing?

For a km or so from the last crossroads to the racecourse, there was basically a bunch of about 9 riders not in formation, but still fairly close. As I wasn't in front, was I (or were we) open to a claim that we were drafting?

(tootling probably isn't the right word to use above.)

When someone passes your front wheel its your responsiblity to drop back.

The actions that you described yourself as doing are a combination of drafting and blocking. The reason that they didn't pull away was that you were sitting in their slipstream Had you dropped back outside the draft zone they would have rode away from you.

MCOS

tunney wrote: »

When someone passes your front wheel its your responsiblity to drop back.

The actions that you described yourself as doing are a combination of drafting and blocking. The reason that they didn't pull away was that you were sitting in their slipstream Had you dropped back outside the draft zone they would have rode away from you.

Well done on the result Tunney, savage stuff on getting the top bike split! On this topic I am a bit Niaive so far. I was doing a Duathlon myself on Sunday and passed a couple of bikes early. Once passed I just kept pushing with the same determination that got me past to start. However I was passed by 2 bling TT bikes with the pointy helmets etc.. They seemed to breeze passed me. They got about 200m in front which is well out of draft territory until we got to a steady climb and I reeled them back in. I passed one slowly. At the turn around point it was mostly down hill and into the wind. The TTer passed me again and caught the 2 in front of me. I then watched the 3 of them operate as a unit for about 5 mins before they disappeared. How is drafting spotted and penalised? Also, I noticed in the 2 Duathlons I have done that the first 2 guys were just seconds apart on the run and also seconds apart on the Bike, they had to have been on each others heels for the whole thing, how did they avoid drafting?

Stark

Drafting is generally legal on the run is it?

hunnymonster

MCOS wrote: »

How is drafting spotted and penalised?

Drafting is a judgement call. The marshall or referee will rule on this and the athlete cannot appeal a drafting penalty because it is a judgement call. A mobile ref only has to see the drafting once and 3 reports from static marshalls are needed. It's tough because mobile refs are difficult to use. In a car, there is a road hazzard and on a motorbike there are insurance implications. The penalty is a time addition.

jlang

tunney wrote: »

When someone passes your front wheel its your responsiblity to drop back.

The actions that you described yourself as doing are a combination of drafting and blocking. The reason that they didn't pull away was that you were sitting in their slipstream Had you dropped back outside the draft zone they would have rode away from you.

Thanks tunney. Figured as much, but I've never ridden in a group before so I'm claiming a learning experience. (Please don't get me disqualified!)

I'd no problem letting the fast bikes speed by, but there's a pride thing in losing several positions in one go to people barely faster than you because they're drafting too. More careful in future. Or I could just go faster myself!

Andrewf20

tunney wrote: »

Red and white cervelo with a disc? A bloke looking very paniced cause he stayed up late on the Saturday night and then slept in and was late?

Think it has a disc, I think you were wearing a yellow and green top. I think, if im right!

Loved the bike run, there was a gaggle of about 6 or 7 of us on the return bike run racing hard. Good craic.

Poncherello

tunney wrote: »

When someone passes your front wheel its your responsiblity to drop back.

The actions that you described yourself as doing are a combination of drafting and blocking. The reason that they didn't pull away was that you were sitting in their slipstream Had you dropped back outside the draft zone they would have rode away from you.

In reality you are not going to drop back. You are more likely to give it a little extra effort to catch that person and overtake them, and they will most likely do the same. This happens me in almost every race I have competed in and while I do make an effort to stay wide of the person in question I'm never going to 'drop back'.

tunney

Poncherello wrote: »

In reality you are not going to drop back. You are more likely to give it a little extra effort to catch that person and overtake them, and they will most likely do the same. This happens me in almost every race I have competed in and while I do make an effort to stay wide of the person in question I'm never going to 'drop back'.

Then, quite simply, you're a cheat.

Poncherello

Good man ! you tell him

bold drafter
bold drafter

MadHatter

Some photos of Race 2...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wheelworx/sets/72157614388304395/

One of me at the finish looking absolutely shattered