gps tracking for walkers

murphysgirl

hi all.

my partner and i like hillwalking but wondered if there is some tracking products for walkers. we walk pretty often and fear one day we'll get stuck someone and no body will know where we are. thought it would be a good idea to find some tracking product which lets my mother, or someone close, know where we are. knowing our last known postion is better than no position at all, if we get lost or fall or something.

any idea would be great!

Thanks

burly

Hi, You can get yourself a handheld GPS unit, which will give you your position as you walk, so if you did get into trouble, you can call mountain rescue and give them an exact co-ordinate for where you are. They come with electronic compass, tracback features, etc, and loads of other useful features. https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145 Regards

ednwireland

learn to read a map and use a compass, gps a useful backup, don't forget spare batteries. oh and a mountain skills course can be fun as well, I think nokia sportstracker can broadcast your position up to website but haven't played with that bit.

NathanKingerlee

A GPS unit would usually give you an accurate grid reference, which is your current location. The only thing with a grid reference is that you also need to be able to read a map to apply the grid reference and use it to your advantage.

The only time I had to use a GPS for real the batteries died! You can't beat a map and compass.

Alun

NathanKingerlee wrote: »

The only time I had to use a GPS for real the batteries died!

Well, that's your fault for not having a spare set of batteries with you then :pac: I have a set of Lithium batteries (very long shelf life, light weight and good low temperature performance) for mine. Alternatively if you want to use rechargeables, use the new hybrid ones (e.g. Sanyo Eneloop). These have a very low self-discharge rate, which is the enemy of normal rechargeable batteries. Normal ones will almost completely self-discharge in a few months if just stored in your rucksack or in the GPS itself, the Eneloops will still have most of their charge left even after one year.

You can't beat a map and compass.

True, but playing the devil's advocate here a bit, maps can blow away in bad conditions, and compasses can, believe it or not, go wrong. I've experienced this myself with a walking colleague whose compass was discovered (when compared to others in the group) to be pointing 180 degrees in the wrong direction. A large speaker magnet in the back parcel shelf of her car was eventually discovered to have been too close to her compass in her rucksack and completely inverted the magnetic field of the needle. If she'd been on her own, or with other people who didn't have compasses she'd have had big problems. In other words, maps and compasses are technology too, albeit very simple and basic technology.

ednwireland

+1 on the eneloop batteries there are also uniross hybrio and others normally called hybrid. really do hold their charge

dont put your map and compass on top of the trig point either and wonder why the compass goes the wrong way must ahve been a big lump of metal in it or something never been to the cullins buts supposed to muck about with the needle magnetic gabbro rock.
still wouldnt want to be out without my map and compass though.

seanpu1

if ur part of a registered MCI walking group you might be able to get hold of a radio gps tracking kit from mountain rescue. I know they use a system to track their own people and if you have the equipment your position can be relayed into their system but you'll have to work that out with them yourself.

alternatively there are some personal tracking websites. you'd need a gps unit, a mobile which can run appropriate software (eg windows mobile, or java) and an internet connection. in ireland it is currently illegal for telephone operators to open up their systems to allow positioning using their networks, so people side solutions are all the can currently be done.

I'm currently working on a tracking system for walkers using off-the-shelf technology (phones gps units etc) which mountain rescue can use in case you do get into any trouble. its very much in its infancy buy i hope to soon be in beta testing mode.

murphysgirl

thank you everyone for your advise.

ednwireland, we are well versed in map reading and thanks for pointing that out. i hear so many people say off the cuff they'd just use their gps, but frankly i dont trust technology much, anything could happen, like NathanKingerlee says the battery could run out! my husband is all into that, i just think that as an assistive device it would be a good idea, you know, just like having a mobile is VERY useful, until the battery runs out. but this one could potentially save your life!

seanpu1, your idea sounds facinating and just what we needed. knowing that mountain rescue actually have access to our actual position is really encouraging. how can we get it? we're not affiliated with any climbing group so does that count us out?

fergalr

seanpu1 wrote: »

alternatively there are some personal tracking websites. you'd need a gps unit, a mobile which can run appropriate software (eg windows mobile, or java) and an internet connection. in ireland it is currently illegal for telephone operators to open up their systems to allow positioning using their networks, so people side solutions are all the can currently be done.

When you say it's illegal, what do you mean - like is there a particular law against it, or do you mean they generally don't do it because of data protection concerns? Be curious to hear specifics.

seanpu1 wrote: »

I'm currently working on a tracking system for walkers using off-the-shelf technology (phones gps units etc) which mountain rescue can use in case you do get into any trouble. its very much in its infancy buy i hope to soon be in beta testing mode.

I thought about making something like this too, but, tbh, I wouldn't bother - in a short time, Google will probably roll out Google Latitude in Ireland, and that will do this pretty much as well as it can be done with off the shelf tech - just share your location with your family member - unless you're planning something a bit different?

fergalr

murphysgirl wrote: »

thank you everyone for your advise.

ednwireland, we are well versed in map reading and thanks for pointing that out. i hear so many people say off the cuff they'd just use their gps, but frankly i dont trust technology much, anything could happen, like NathanKingerlee says the battery could run out! my husband is all into that, i just think that as an assistive device it would be a good idea, you know, just like having a mobile is VERY useful, until the battery runs out. but this one could potentially save your life!

seanpu1, your idea sounds facinating and just what we needed. knowing that mountain rescue actually have access to our actual position is really encouraging. how can we get it? we're not affiliated with any climbing group so does that count us out?

Ednwireland:
Currently, if your worried about people locating you if things go awry, your best bet is probably to leave routecards with people before you head off, detailing your projected routes, and to text home updates as you go.

At the moment, if you went missing, the Gardai could request your phone company to get your last known position from their records. This wouldn't be very accurate when you are out in the hills, where cell towers cover wide areas.

In a reasonably short while (months, or maybe a year or two, I don't know) then services like Google Latitude will enable you to use a GPS enabled phone to share your location with your friends on the internet. You'll be able to use this to have them look and see where your phone is, if you go missing. This will probably help a lot in cases like this.
There's probably software out there right now, depending on your phone, that allows you share your GPS co-ordinates with other people, but it's becoming more popular and easier to use at the moment.


Any of these phone based tracking systems will only work when you have phone coverage. If you are in the wicklow hills, and go out of coverage for an hour or two before you have a mishap, there's going to be a big place to search. A route card, which says where you are going to go, will still be handy.


In countries which have more remote wilderness areas than Ireland does, you can use an 'Eprib' style device to do what you are asking.
Details are here, if you want the nitty gritty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Position-Indicating_Radio_Beacon

These are really common at sea, but in some countries, hikers use them too.
Basically, they are an integrated unit that you activate in case of emergency (you pull a cord or push a big red button -that sort of thing) and they get a GPS fix and transmit an emergency beacon.
So, these things do exist, but they probably are a bit overpowered for use here - I've never heard of anyone using them in Ireland - I'm not even sure if you can use them on land here, although they are used at sea. (Just mentioned it in case you were thinking "why doesn't something like this exist?")


Simplest thing to do at the moment, if you're worried, is probably leave a routecard, use your phone to text updates.
If you wanted to be a little more sophisticated, I'm sure you could just blog or twitter your location from your phone as you went along! When people want to find you, they can just read your blog :-)

seanpu1

fergalr wrote: »

When you say it's illegal, what do you mean - like is there a particular law against it, or do you mean they generally don't do it because of data protection concerns? Be curious to hear specifics.

In Ireland it is currently against privacy law to give out the location of an MSEI number to a third party. that information can only be used to improve network performance by the networks. You'll have to do some googling to find the specific documents.

fergalr wrote: »

I thought about making something like this too, but, tbh, I wouldn't bother - in a short time, Google will probably roll out Google Latitude in Ireland, and that will do this pretty much as well as it can be done with off the shelf tech - just share your location with your family member - unless you're planning something a bit different?

Yep, good point. the only limiting factor at the moment with latitude is that only your last known position is stored. thats great for simple applications, but for something like mountain rescue, knowing your last location could be km's away from where u actually are now. having the day's history of gps ticks will let us see what trail you where following, your agilitiy and potential track you pursued after that Last Known Position.

fergalr

seanpu1 wrote: »

In Ireland it is currently against privacy law to give out the location of an MSEI number to a third party. that information can only be used to improve network performance by the networks. You'll have to do some googling to find the specific documents.

It's given out to the gardai fairly regularly though, isn't it?
I'd imagine it could be gotten in a missing persons/mountain rescue scenario (?) - but again, nearest last cell tower probably isn't that useful in the hills.

Yep, good point. the only limiting factor at the moment with latitude is that only your last known position is stored. thats great for simple applications, but for something like mountain rescue, knowing your last location could be km's away from where u actually are now. having the day's history of gps ticks will let us see what trail you where following, your agilitiy and potential track you pursued after that Last Known Position.

Yeah - that'll change though - without looking, I'd be quite surprised if there aren't already mashups or services out there that will give you a days history from the latitude ticks; there certainly will be.

hugoline

Back on topic.
I used to to a fair bit of hillwalking myself and found handheld GPS devices brilliant (Garmin eTrex Vista HCx at the moment). As mentioned above they can record the track you walked, and with a bit of pre-planing and setting waypoints for the planed trip, even fog is not much of a problem (granted you have a spare batteries, a compass and know how to use all your equipment).

But I guess what you are looking for is more something like the "Nikkai Personal GPS Tracker".
This will not show you any position or map, but when pressing a button can send your postion (aquired by GPS) to three pre-programmed mobile phone numers as text. This obviousely requires a working SIM card and mobile phone reception in the area (and a charged battery).
They can be gotten fairly cheap on eBay, but I have never seen or used one.

fergalr

hugoline wrote: »

But I guess what you are looking for is more something like the "Nikkai Personal GPS Tracker".
This will not show you any position or map, but when pressing a button can send your postion (aquired by GPS) to three pre-programmed mobile phone numers as text. This obviousely requires a working SIM card and mobile phone reception in the area (and a charged battery).
They can be gotten fairly cheap on eBay, but I have never seen or used one.

That doesn't sound very good..?
If you are both in mobile phone reception, and able to use an electronic device, then you are probably better off with a standard GPS that will give you your co-ordinates, and sending a text message / phone call for help. That way you get to see where you are, as well as your rescuers.

In other words, if you are going to carry a GPS device into the hills, in case of emergency, bring one that will tell you where you are.

BeardyGit

seanpu1 wrote: »

if ur part of a registered MCI walking group you might be able to get hold of a radio gps tracking kit from mountain rescue. I know they use a system to track their own people and if you have the equipment your position can be relayed into their system but you'll have to work that out with them yourself.

Whether or not you're part of MCI or MI6, the above will NOT WORK. Our systems work on a licensed VHF band, with a finite range and very specific requirements in terms of kit for both transmission and interpreting data burst output. Each portable VHF set costs us about €700, so even if you wanted to ignore broadcast licensing it's prohibitively expensive...

If anyone wants to purchase a suitable GPS tracking device specifically for emergency use, you could look at something like SPOT or similar.

http://www.findmespot.com/en/

NOTE - THIS IS NOT A PRODUCT ENDORSEMENT OR RECOMMENDATION. THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES THAT USE OF THIS OR ANY OTHER SIMILAR PRODUCT WILL PROVIDE ANY DEGREE OF SAFETY OVER AND ABOVE YOUR SELF RELIANCE ON THE HILLSIDE.