Having a 2nd car

antodeco

Hey all,
Im currently looking at getting myself a small run-around for entertainment use. Im looking at the late 80's, early 90's mini city at the moment. Im just wondering what Insurance issues there are. Can you have a seperate policy for a second car with no issues? Also, does anyone have a mini city and what are they like?

Thanks

B00MSTICK

You could but it on a classic policy if you're over 25
Will prob work out the cheapest?

Unless your current policy has drive-other-cars-3rd party on it?
Although I'm not sure of the T&Cs regarding this...

You'll have to start your NCD from scratch if you take out another standard policy AFAIK

zreba

B00MSTICK wrote: »

Unless your current policy has drive-other-cars-3rd party on it?
Although I'm not sure of the T&Cs regarding this...

this would be the cheapest (cost=zero) option, but the car cannot be registered/owned by him

B00MSTICK

So if he got parent/friend to register/tax it he'd be ok?

Does the car need to be insured by someone too?

antodeco

B00MSTICK wrote: »

You could but it on a classic policy if you're over 25
Will prob work out the cheapest?

You'll have to start your NCD from scratch if you take out another standard policy AFAIK

I am over 25, how does that work? Do you mean my total NCB resets or just that I start from scratch on the second policy? ie I cant use my current NCB on a new policy, but I wont lose it on my current policy?

zreba wrote: »

this would be the cheapest (cost=zero) option, but the car cannot be registered/owned by him

Had that issue before, so I just got the car owned and insured by someone else, but I have open drive.

The one I have my eye on is a '91.

antodeco

B00MSTICK wrote: »

So if he got parent/friend to register/tax it he'd be ok?

Does the car need to be insured by someone too?

Issue there is that I would rather have it under my name! Plus everyone I know have their own policies, so the same issues arises.

zreba

antodeco wrote: »

Issue there is that I would rather have it under my name! Plus everyone I know have their own policies, so the same issues arises.

no, the 'other' car doesn't need to be insured, this would make no sense, 2 different policies never take place at one time and e.g. you can claim only from one.

antodeco

zreba wrote: »

no, the 'other' car doesn't need to be insured, this would make no sense, 2 different policies never take place at one time and e.g. you can claim only from one.

So what you are saying is that I can have my own policy (as I do), have the other car registered to someone else, but have no insurance on it?? My understanding is that if you are driving another car on an open policy, said car must have insurance on it?

thebman

There would be clauses if the car was in another persons name that they should still be the primary driver on it or something to that affect.

It would be almost impossible to prove otherwise but if they could, you wouldn't be covered.

zreba

antodeco wrote: »

So what you are saying is that I can have my own policy (as I do), have the other car registered to someone else, but have no insurance on it?? My understanding is that if you are driving another car on an open policy, said car must have insurance on it?

yes, but small amend, the car not only needs to be registered to someone else, but needs to be 'owned' by that person.

and you're not driving another car on it's open driving policy, but on yours current policy which gives you 3rd party insurance while driving other's cars (if you only have this option enabled)

galwaytt

antodeco wrote: »

So what you are saying is that I can have my own policy (as I do), have the other car registered to someone else, but have no insurance on it?? My understanding is that if you are driving another car on an open policy, said car must have insurance on it?

..it used to be that way, but ins co's copped on to all those mothers/girlfriends insuruing GT/GTi's etc, and the young lad just insuring Micra. Most policies now state that you can only drive the other car if it too is insured by the registered owner.........

If it's not, there's another issue: how to tax and NCT it. You'll need an ins cert to tax the other car.

Just buy a 2nd policy, or a classic policy, the 2nd NCB/record might be handy, down the road, if/when you want to get somethign more celubrious as a 2nd car.

Our 2nd policy on teh MX-5 only cost Eur200 this year, bundled with the house insurance........

zreba

thebman wrote: »

There would be clauses if the car was in another persons name that they should still be the primary driver on it or something to that affect.

car is a good, you can own it and not drive at all - your choice, it might just look nice outside of your house as a decoration

thebman wrote: »

It would be almost impossible to prove otherwise but if they could, you wouldn't be covered.

yes, if they can prove that car actually belongs to you, you will not be covered.

zreba

galwaytt wrote: »

..it used to be that way, but ins co's copped on to all those mothers/girlfriends insuruing GT/GTi's etc, and the young lad just insuring Micra. Most policies now state that you can only drive the other car if it too is insured by the registered owner.........

not sure about all policies, I know about Hibernian, they don't require other car to be insured or even NCT'd to be covered

galwaytt wrote: »

If it's not, there's another issue: how to tax and NCT it. You'll need an ins cert to tax the other car.

NCT - no problem at all?
TAX - you also can, providing your (driver) insurance details, under which the car will be covered while driving

galwaytt wrote: »

Just buy a 2nd policy, or a classic policy, the 2nd NCB/record might be handy, down the road, if/when you want to get somethign more celubrious as a 2nd car.

Our 2nd policy on teh MX-5 only cost Eur200 this year, bundled with the house insurance........

yes, this is the best solution

antodeco

Ok grand, thanks for the replies. So simply get a 2nd policy? I dont think I can get a classic policy if the car is less than 30 years old?

B00MSTICK

Classic insurance if its over 20 (25 on some policies)
Classic tax if over 30.

Have a look in the classic car forum for info.

http://irishvintage.net/_wsn/page4.html

antodeco

Perhaps UNKLE can shed light on this, but I vaguely remember him saying that he knows someone with a '96 mx5 with classic tax. Might pop him a PM!

SAABMAN

zreba wrote: »

not sure about all policies, I know about Hibernian, they don't require other car to be insured or even NCT'd to be covered

Never heard of this being allowed! Logic says no way.
What you are saying is that I can insure a Micra and drive a Ferrari on the same policy.
A further twist on this is that if you are driving another insured car but on your insurance (ie. not a named driver on 2nd car), then there is no insurance on your 1st car. That means that while you are driving another car (unless it has open drive) your own car cannot be driven by anyone insured on it. This is because one policy can't provide cover to two things at the same time.

B00MSTICK

SAABMAN wrote:

A further twist on this is that if you are driving another insured car but on your insurance (ie. not a named driver on 2nd car), then there is no insurance on your 1st car. That means that while you are driving another car (unless it has open drive) your own car cannot be driven by anyone insured on it. This is because one policy can't provide cover to two things at the same time.

Thats true, but if I want to drive someone elses car and they want to drive mine its fine aslong as we both have drive other car extensions.

SAABMAN wrote:

What you are saying is that I can insure a Micra and drive a Ferrari on the same policy.

Yes you can, aslong as its not your Ferrari.

Finding a friend who will let you drive his/her Ferrari with only 3rd party cover may be difficult however.

SAABMAN

B00MSTICK wrote: »

Yes you can, aslong as its not your Ferrari.

Finding a friend who will let you drive his/her Ferrari with only 3rd party cover may be difficult however.

Yes, I understand that part of it, but the guy whose post I quoted was saying that the Ferrari wouldn't need to be insured at all.

B00MSTICK

Well if you think about it, why would it matter to the insurance company if it was insured (by the owner) or not?

If you crash and claim, you'll claim under your policy so whether the car is insured by someone else has no effect on anything. You're essentially transferring insurance from your car to another.

SAABMAN

B00MSTICK wrote: »

Well if you think about it, why would it matter to the insurance company if it was insured (by the owner) or not?

If you crash and claim, you'll claim under your policy so whether the car is insured by someone else has no effect on anything. You're essentially transferring insurance from your car to another.

I think it would matter a great deal to the insurance company. If you crash and claim then the most , if anything, you could expect would be the value of the smaller car (I can't face typing that other name again ). They have insured you against the risk of an accident, so transferring the insurance in the event of an accident would not be possible. Then again, you wouldn't be covered anyway as it would be only third party. You may be right on that point, but it would still be illegal to drive an uninsured vehicle.
You could transfer your insurance every time you wanted to drive the other car, but the insurance company charge for this pleasure and only allow a limited number of changes. I found this out after trying to sell a car and getting messed about a few times.

Fishtits

More to the point...

Have you any idea just how maintenance hungry/mechanic non friendly a classic Mini is?



They are a serious drain on resources to keep them right. Before any optimist jumps in, I've owned, maintained and driven various models since starting with a '72 850 back in '83.

Its a serious commitment IMHO.

PS current "weekend warrior" is a 1440cc 140BHP 1987 model.

B00MSTICK

I'm not 100% certain but Im pretty sure they used the word transferred, I assuming that means your car would no longer be insured but the car you're driving would be.

I do take your point on one car being a much larger risk than the other though, I'll give them a ring tomorrow to check, I'm not with hibernian but It will be interesting to find out anyway.

B00MSTICK

Just off the phone with QD.

The other car must be privately taxed, insured etc. So SAABMAN you're correct (could you tell I wished the opposite )

Maybe Hibernian are different but I don't know.

zreba

B00MSTICK wrote: »

Just off the phone with QD.

The other car must be privately taxed, insured etc. So SAABMAN you're correct (could you tell I wished the opposite )

Maybe Hibernian are different but I don't know.

that means Hibernian is different,

and as for me it sounds pretty strange that QD require car to be taxed to be insured, in my understanding tax is just a fiscal issue.

And I also don't understand why the car would need to be covered under 2 policies at the same time.
Would suggest checking this again with different person, as some of them can be just missinformed.

maidhc

zreba wrote: »

that means Hibernian is different,

I think the wording of the hibernian certificate is actually different to the other ones. Interesting query, as I am in the same boat, but have just resolved to lay the car up until it is 20 (it is 19) and could be insured as a classic.

Btw a NCB cannot be earned on a classic insurance to the best of my knowledge.

B00MSTICK

zreba wrote:

that means Hibernian is different

I can confirm this, aslong as the car is taxed/NCT'd it can be any engine size aslong as its a private motor vehicle i.e no trucks etc.

Now I hope Hibernian can offer me a competitive quote for my FTO come renewal time!

zreba

B00MSTICK wrote: »

I can confirm this, aslong as the car is taxed/NCT'd it can be any engine size aslong as its a private motor vehicle i.e no trucks etc.

Now I hope Hibernian can offer me a competitive quote for my FTO come renewal time!

doesn't need to be even NCT'd to be covered, I'm not sure about tax, but also wouldn't say so.

Hovewer car has to be roadworthy, that means, that if you crash it and it happens, that for e.g. you had no headlights installed in time of accident, the insurance may not take affect. NCT is irrelevant while driving other cars (from the insurance point of view, not from other legal aspects).

B00MSTICK

I emailed QD so as to have it in black and white in front of me

QD wrote:

I would like to confirm if your certificate of insurance says so,
we will cover you, the policyholder, for your liability to other people while you are driving any other privately owned vehicle which you do not own or
have not hired under a hire-purchase or lease agreement as long as :

Does not belong to you or your employer

Is not hired or leased by you or your employer

Is not a van, or a car van, or a jeep type vehicle

You currently hold a full EU licence

The use of the vehicle is covered on the certificate of
insurance

Cover is not provided by any other insurance

You have the owners permission to drive the vehicle

The vehicle is in a roadworthy condition
and
You still have your vehicle and it is not been damaged beyond
costeffective repair.

So it says nothing regarding tax/nct/insured by owner.

Happy days

zreba

B00MSTICK wrote: »

I emailed QD so as to have it in black and white in front of me



So it says nothing regarding tax/nct/insured by owner.

Happy days

as I though, they can give you a bul**** on the phone, but need to pay more attention to what they write


they even say that one of requirements is:

"Cover is not provided by any other insurance" so in case that you're covered under other policy, this one will not take place

Owen

[utterly shameless plug]If you're interested in finding out more about total ownership costs, and reliability, or lack of from people who own Minis, check out the forum in my Sig - http://miniclub.ie [/utterly shameless plug]

antodeco

God, fair amount of replies in one day! Appreciated!

Just so Im clear! Once I have open drive, I can drive the mini once it is not owned by me, but doesnt need to have insurance? So if I get someone to register the vehicle in their name, they dont need insurance on the vehicle and I can drive it?? Thanks

maidhc

antodeco wrote: »

God, fair amount of replies in one day! Appreciated!

Just so Im clear! Once I have open drive, I can drive the mini once it is not owned by me, but doesnt need to have insurance? So if I get someone to register the vehicle in their name, they dont need insurance on the vehicle and I can drive it?? Thanks

Not unless you have a letter from the Insurance company confirming this!

The penalties for being uninsured (even through a technicality) are too great to say otherwise.

antodeco

maidhc wrote: »

Not unless you have a letter from the Insurance company confirming this!

The penalties for being uninsured (even through a technicality) are too great to say otherwise.

So the letter would need to state that I can drive an uninsured car under my own policy?

SAABMAN

antodeco wrote: »

So the letter would need to state that I can drive an uninsured car under my own policy?

Can't see this working, but if it does let us know. A guy near me is selling a Mustang:D:cool: so I can buy it, leave it in his name and drive it whenever I want as long as he doesn't insure it.

zreba

antodeco wrote: »

God, fair amount of replies in one day! Appreciated!

Just so Im clear! Once I have open drive, I can drive the mini once it is not owned by me, but doesnt need to have insurance? So if I get someone to register the vehicle in their name, they dont need insurance on the vehicle and I can drive it?? Thanks

1. Open driving is completely different thing than 'drive other cars' option.
2. However they will be responsible for the car, cos this car will belongs to them, e.g. if you park it incorrectly - they'll get fines, they'll be receiving all speeding tickets etc etc...

By the law, the car needs to be registered in your name if it belongs to you,

this policy is really to cover you while driving some other person's car (temporarily), and yes, it doesn't need to be insured by this person.

zreba

SAABMAN wrote: »

Can't see this working, but if it does let us know. A guy near me is selling a Mustang:D:cool: so I can buy it, leave it in his name and drive it whenever I want as long as he doesn't insure it.

1. He breaks the law not registering the car in your name
2. You break the law, as you can't drive your car, and if your neighbour will state at some point that he sold this car to you - you'll have troubles.
3. The cover you have is 3rd party only, no other policy (fire, theft, comprehensive) applies while driving other cars.

4. If you and your neighbour can accept all above - yes - go ahead

B00MSTICK

Indeed, I wouldn't chance it on anything of real value.

Some scrote robs/damages your car and its a lot of money down the drain with no recourse.

It would work better for the OP as the price of an old Mini should be nowhere near that of a Mustang

antodeco

Sorry for bringing up this oldish thread, but Im on the next level of this purchase.

Im now looking at purchasing the car, but the insurance at the moment is a joke. I currently have my own policy with Eagle Star, but it turns out they only allow 30 days in 12 months to temporary transfer insurance across. So this means I could drive it 15 weekends of the year.
I tried for another policy, but the insurance is working out at over €1000 minimum, which is ridiculous! So just a few points I hope someone can answer:

• If I get my brother to "purchase" this vehicle, does he need to insure it if I want to drive it? (ie, drive 3rd party from my own insurance).
• Does anyone have any recommendation on where to go for low mileage insurance? The car is from 1993, so cant get classic insurance.

Thanks

Zube

What do you plan to put in the window instead of tax and insurance discs?

knipex

zreba wrote: »

no, the 'other' car doesn't need to be insured, this would make no sense, 2 different policies never take place at one time and e.g. you can claim only from one.

In some policies teh car being driven does have to have an existing policy to prevent exactly what you are trying to do. On others it does not.

However even if not the law still requires a valid insurance disk to be displayed... His own policy will list his cars registration number which make it invalid for use on the second car.

It is at best a grey area and one to be avoided like the plague. Get a separate policy either classic or otherwise. The alternative would be to get a trade policy but with only two cars this would prove expensive.

A drivers licence is too valuable to risk loosing.

B00MSTICK

As far as I can see with Quinn and Hibernian you do not need your brother to insure it.

I would carry your insurance details with you and a copy of the log book and maybe a letter from your insurance stating the conditions etc. of the policy.

I have posted the details of the drive other cars 3rd party extension in black and white.

I'd take my chances if it went to court.

Chances are the Garda would tell you to present insurance at a Garda station within 10 days showing you can drive 3rd party.

Maybe someone should post in the Emergency Services forum and get a definitive answer.

You can easily tax a car sans insurance. Likewise you can insure and then cancel insurance if you want to put something in the windscreen.

SAABMAN

I just hope we don't meet by accident

B00MSTICK

Why?

(Please read this thread in detail before replying, I'm not a scumbag and would have all the conditions fulfilled as I'm sure the OP will)

SAABMAN

B00MSTICK wrote: »

Why?

(Please read this thread in detail before replying, I'm not a scumbag and would have all the conditions fulfilled as I'm sure the OP will)

Nothing personal, and have been following this closely since it started. Just from experience insurance companies will do anything to avoid paying out. For example, when my sister had an accident in a 2CV they were refusing to pay because they had not been told it was a soft-top. Fair enough if 2CV's came with anything else
What you say about getting it in writing from the insurance company is vital.

B00MSTICK

SAABMAN wrote:

What you say about getting it in writing from the insurance company is vital.

Aslong as we tell the truth, and everything, we'll be grand.

Unless they claim a Mini is actually a modified tractor.*

*This may or may not occur

SAABMAN wrote:

when my sister had an accident in a 2CV they were refusing to pay because they had not been told it was a soft-top.

Did the insurance company cough up eventually as a matter of interest?

I got a proposal form off Hibernian stating an MR2 was a 4 door saloon with 5 seats :eek:

antodeco

No matter where Im looking, its a ridiculous price for the insurance. Does nowhere take into account the fact that Ive 4 years NCB on another policy?

antodeco

When Im contacting the insurance company for the 2nd policy, should I mention I have an NCB or does it not matter whatsoever if its a seperate policy?

manta356

Have a 1998 Mini as a second car.I got it insured with Quinn,for approx €600 two years ago.I had full no claims on my other car with AXA.But the Mini policy started as a new policy.
I was able to add my 18 year old daughter,on a learner permit,with no driving exp for approx €180 last year.
Renewal last aug was €860 for both of us,with 2 years ncb built up.Daughter is still on learner permit.
Hope this helps

antodeco

manta356 wrote: »

Have a 1998 Mini as a second car.I got it insured with Quinn,for approx €600 two years ago.I had full no claims on my other car with AXA.But the Mini policy started as a new policy.
I was able to add my 18 year old daughter,on a learner permit,with no driving exp for approx €180 last year.
Renewal last aug was €860 for both of us,with 2 years ncb built up.Daughter is still on learner permit.
Hope this helps

Thanks for that. Insurance rates have really changed the past 2 years, so being double it is probably an offset of the 'recession' :rolleyes: