Stop moaning about the bankers and Fianna Fail, they're untouchable

Dannyboy83

Henry Hill, GoodFellas
For us to live any other way was nuts. Uh, to us, those goody-good people who worked ****ty jobs for bum paychecks and took the subway to work every day and worried about their bills were dead. I mean they were suckers. They had no balls. If we wanted something, we just took it. If anyone complained twice they got hit so bad, believe me, they never complained again.

This quote pretty much sums up Fianna Fail and the bankers views of the Irish Public.
The above quote is from the film GoodFellas, about the untouchable gansters in the Italian Mob.
It could be equally be said of the untouchable gangsters in Irish political and economic institutions.

I think its clear as crystal at this stage that nothing is going to be done.

Irish people should stop whinging and moaning, because they're powerless to change anything.

I think we should all just accept that we will need to cover the debt through our taxes and stop whinging.
There is a long catalogue of corruption and abuse during Fianna Fail's last 20 years in power.
Nothing has ever been done about it.
Don't be stupid enough to think its going to change this time.

Some realistic taxes which will be needed to cover the debt and social welfare.
Here are some the suggestions:

• 30% lower tax band and 50% upper tax band
• no tax credits
• increased existing taxes such as car tax and fuel levies etc.
• 25% pay cuts for public servants

Anglo's toxic debt of 6Billion and Bank of Ireland's revised toxic debt is upwards of 5Billion which totals to 11 Billion.
All of this toxic debt is guaranteed by the Irish government (via the taxpayer) but FF have also guaranteed Allied Irish Bank, Irish Nationwide, the EBS and Irish Life & Permanent which has not yet been disclosed.

Even if Fianna Fail were ousted and somebody else stepped in e.g. Labour, FG, EU, .....and prosecuted these bankers etc., we will still have to pay for this debt.
Its not going to go away.

The bright side of the high taxation is that we may get a bit chunk taken out of this debt after 10 years of high tax.

Just rest assured, nothing is going to change.
Nobody is going to legislate against anything for the future.

Don't even get angry, just accept it, thats Ireland.

Yenwod

Well that's a depressing outlook

Phototoxin

Its a well established fact of life in ireland that i) things aren't transparent, ii) no one is accountable and iii) even if anyone is caught doing something they shouldn't, if they are rich/political enough, then then they are untouchable.

johnnyrotten

Typical Irish attitiude - just accept it, sure it will be grand

diverdriver

I think there's one difference now, while the extended golden circle of rich business bandits are fairly immune. FF is not. The appropriate punishment would be a massacre at the polls and few years in the wilderness while they replace all the old crooks with new blood.

The only worry, as I stated in another thread is that the replacement for FF could be worse, bringing a loony left coalition which in the long run could be more damaging to us all than anything Cowan and fumbling idiots could do.

eoinbn

Well one of the golden circle has resigned and he was a banker- well he worked for a bank, so even they aren't immune to everything.

Dannyboy83

Yenwod wrote: »

Well that's a depressing outlook

1 part depressing and 2 parts reality unfortunately mate.

Phototoxin wrote: »

Its a well established fact of life in ireland that i) things aren't transparent, ii) no one is accountable and iii) even if anyone is caught doing something they shouldn't, if they are rich/political enough, then then they are untouchable.

I think if anyone doubted that before, the theory should be unquestionable now.
If anyone wants proof, have a look how many boards any high flier is sitting on or how many companies they are a director of.

The Galway tent may be a joke, but the analogy is simple and effective
The Golden circle would seem to extend wider than 10 people however.

johnnyrotten wrote: »

Typical Irish attitiude - just accept it, sure it will be grand

I'm not going to defend it mate.
Its defeatist, I admit wholeheartedly.

I also think its the most honest and realistic view on the board.

This little board are too busy attacking each other, public vs. private to even focus on the correct people.

I never understood the apathy among Irish people before.
Now I get it.
Fcuk it.

diverdriver wrote: »

I think there's one difference now, while the extended golden circle of rich business bandits are fairly immune. FF is not. The appropriate punishment would be a massacre at the polls and few years in the wilderness while they replace all the old crooks with new blood.

I agree.
But, this people will still make in excess of E100,000 per year just from a pension anway.
It'd take me 3 years to earn that.

Who is the mug? Me or them?

(A little experiment for you - Go listen to Dermot Morgan's "Scrap Saturday" from the 80s.
Seen if you recognise any of the names........let me rephrase that, see if you don't recognise any of the names.
Politics, nepotisim, inheritance and royalty are one and the same in this country of just 4 million.)

The only worry, as I stated in another thread is that the replacement for FF could be worse, bringing a loony left coalition which in the long run could be more damaging to us all than anything Cowan and fumbling idiots could do.

This government have been in for 20 years. Their roots are deep.
Look at the government waste for politicians alone.

Bring in a new party would probably eliminate a lot of the waste.
But its still the same broken Palimentary system.

The next party I'll vote for will be the one that has as little to do with me and possible - kind of like the US Republican idea.

eoinbn wrote: »

Well one of the golden circle has resigned and he was a banker- well he worked for a bank, so even they aren't immune to everything.

Well, there you go.
He resigned.
I wouldn't call it "punishment"

He'l be sitting on a different board or running a different company.

Somebody posted a quote on this board "Prison - where the big criminals put the little criminals"

Seems quite apt.

Sleepy

The answer to how to fix things is also in the quote you posted:

"they got hit so bad, believe me, they never complained again"

We just need to change who's doing the hitting.

Dannyboy83

Sleepy wrote: »

The answer to how to fix things is also in the quote you posted:

"they got hit so bad, believe me, they never complained again"

We just need to change who's doing the hitting.

If property is the poison, property tax must be the cure.

Some folks are gonna need a gumshield in 2010.

Government coffers will oveflow, and the bank will be burdened with "assets".
(some property investing folks are gonna need Anal lube)

nyarlothothep

jeez if everyone took this attitude we'd still be living under kings and lords. They only have this kind of power because we allow them to.

Dannyboy83

nyarlothothep wrote: »

jeez if everyone took this attitude we'd still be living under kings and lords. They only have this kind of power because we allow them to.

Are we not living under Kings and lords?

Ireland is a Republic only in name.

nyarlothothep

we have freedom of speech, we have employee rights among other civil rights. You're right, the republic is a shambles, we don't live in a true democracy, but we only have the rights we enjoy due to the hard work and efforts of people from previous generations who wouldn't accept the world as it was.

Dannyboy83

nyarlothothep wrote: »

we have freedom of speech,

I would question our Freedom of Speech.

Note that the 4 of 10 (Golden circle of Borg) were name in a British Newspaper.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5781014.ece

we have employee rights among other civil rights.

I would question our rights.
See : Waterford Crystal & pension
See : Anglo Irish 300m Write off

You're right, the republic is a shambles, we don't live in a true democracy, but we only have the rights we enjoy due to the hard work and efforts of people from previous generations who wouldn't accept the world as it was.

It hasn't been 100 years since the Great Depression.
We haven't learned much.

It hasn't been 25 years since Irish people left school and emigrated.
Some of my friends are packing tonight for Australia.

It hasn't been 15 years since we had Charlie Haughey.
Nothing has been legislated against

It hasn't been 10 years since we had fyffes
Look at the papers.

Enron/Anglo.........etc.

I admire and pity people in equal measures who believe that things will change in this country.
I don't believe they will.

Capt'n Midnight

diverdriver wrote: »

I think there's one difference now, while the extended golden circle of rich business bandits are fairly immune. FF is not. The appropriate punishment would be a massacre at the polls and few years in the wilderness while they replace all the old crooks with new blood.

How much new blood have FF got since 1970 ?
That's when Haughey was shown to be involved in the finances of smuggling firearms into the north.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Crisis

People who weren't even born then now have children who are old enough to vote. FF have had two generations to clean up their act and the only thing that seems to have changed is the corruption isn't quite as obvious as it was then. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The appropriate punishment is prosecution to the full extent of the law of all parties involved in corruption and have the CAB go after any profits made from re-zoning etc.

A rough rule of thumb is that a human life is worth €1 million, as that is how much we spend on improved road junctions or lifetime hospital care. Anyone who defrauds the state of this much is argueably indirectly responsible for a life that could otherwise be saved !!
The laws on corruption and victim impact reports must be updated to reflect this.

Repeat offenders in this country have gotten 7 years for stealing a handbag. Anyone care to bet that the total jail time served by those involved in the current scandals / tribunals will be equal that ?

SeanW

diverdriver wrote: »

The only worry, as I stated in another thread is that the replacement for FF could be worse, bringing a loony left coalition which in the long run could be more damaging to us all than anything Cowan and fumbling idiots could do.

Unless the leader of such a coalition has the ideals of Robert Mugabe or Joseph Stalin, I seriously doubt they could be worse than this shower.