birth certs

shezzie

why the hell is it so damn difficult to get your own long form birth cert..why do we have to have birth mothers surname which cant be given by the adoption agency as it is tracable information..therefore not allowing you to get the birth cert...burocracy...load of crap....:(

Ostrom

shezzie wrote: »

why the hell is it so damn difficult to get your own long form birth cert..why do we have to have birth mothers surname which cant be given by the adoption agency as it is tracable information..therefore not allowing you to get the birth cert...burocracy...load of crap....:(

And completely necessary. Whats the problem exactly? Getting hold of your birth cert is fairly straightforward?

shezzie

the problem is that i have applied for the cert and they wont give it to me as i dont know my birth mothers surname...i am adopted person so they wont give it to me in case i use it to trace...

CathyMoran

I know from my husband who is adopted how fustrating that is. It took him weeks and a lot of luck to trace his. I wish you all the best in finding your birth cert.

kathy finn

hi,
it,s not difficult at all, i found mine in a matter of hours in the research room in birth deaths and marraiges.
i didnt have my mothers surname but i had my first name and where i was born and the date of course it,s just a matter of looking for a baby born on that date with no fathers name on the birthrecord it means looking through all the books for your year of birth.
i totally agree that we should,nt have to do this it,s our birthcerts and we are intitled to them but sometimes it,s easier than trying to fight the system........kathy

Ostrom

shezzie wrote: »

why the hell is it so damn difficult to get your own long form birth cert..why do we have to have birth mothers surname which cant be given by the adoption agency as it is tracable information..therefore not allowing you to get the birth cert...burocracy...load of crap....:(

I think what you need to do is the old manual search method;

Do you have any non-identifying information? Anything like place of birth or family occupation?

The long way is to request the birth record books at the General Registry Office for the year you were born, and to search through every birth (it takes a long time) for a specific type of entry. (I dont know what age you are, but again, there is a rough correlation between accuracy of entries and your date of birth, unfortunately)

All entries in the registry book list the childs name (they are indexed by surname), mothers maiden name, place and date of birth, and a log number for the archive.

An entry where the childs surname is the same as the mothers maiden name typically corresponds to an unwed mother, or a later-adopted child. The way I found mine was to go through each entry, make a note of all births matching those characteristics, and request the long form birth certs for each.

I had some non-identifying information I was able to match to the correct cert (in my case, my mothers place of birth) - you should request this from your adoption agency (whose records may now be incorporated under the HSE). It takes time, but it should get you on your way, and is certainly quicker than a formal request.

Sorry if this isnt what you were asking! PM if you want something more substantial

shezzie

no thank you for that i really do appreciate all responses i went to get my cert in a few different places and each time knocked back it is so much harder for an adopted person than a regular person no disrepect i have been told no every time i went...not fair ...descrimination..

Ostrom

shezzie wrote: »

no thank you for that i really do appreciate all responses i went to get my cert in a few different places and each time knocked back it is so much harder for an adopted person than a regular person no disrepect i have been told no every time i went...not fair ...descrimination..

You dont need to ask permission for your birth cert, they are public documents.

The general registry office (now on Abbey Street, Dublin) holds all birth, marriage and death certificates. Follow the above procedure and it shouldn't take you more than two days.

Contact the adoption agency, ask for your non-identifying information - they must supply this if they have anything on file.

What you do not have access to is the adopted persons' index, access to which is generally reserved for court-ordered release. What this allows is a cross-reference between your birth as it was registered initially, and your adoptive-registered details, both of which appear in the index books.

You are looking for the former, but you will need your non-identifying information to be sure

The_Conductor

shezzie wrote: »

no thank you for that i really do appreciate all responses i went to get my cert in a few different places and each time knocked back it is so much harder for an adopted person than a regular person no disrepect i have been told no every time i went...not fair ...descrimination..

Hi Shezzie,

The information given to you above is accurate- its a little time consuming, but very possible, to find your long form birth certificate yourself.

The first thing you need to do is request 'Non-Identifying Information' from the agency who placed you for adoption. Typically this will have the first name you were given at birth along with some information about your birthmum (such as her occupation and what part of the country she was from- but also it might include some family information which might prove helpful).

Once you have your non-identifying information you need to search the books (normally 3 or 4) relating to the year in which you were born. You just request the books of births for that year- you do not need to tell them you are adopted or anything else at all. Anyone is free to examine the books at any stage- they are public records. The reading room for the General Registers Office (of births, marriages and deaths) has moved- and is now in the Irish Life Mall on Talbot Street.

Print out and follow the directions in this document and you will then have your long form birth cert. (Its possible you may get multiple possible birthcerts- which you then narrow down with the non-identifying information you previously requested).

If you have any questions at all, feel free to ask back here again.

Shane

Ostrom

I use (or should be using!) the land registry for my own research which is in the vicinity, if you need a hand getting started

sobs

Crikey!!! Does this mean that anyone that knows my name, has a birth date for my child could get a birth cert for my child? A birth cert contains info about the parents also such as occupation, address and age. Surely this is not public information. I thought these records were only available up to the 1960s.

kathy finn

no, birth, marraige and deathcerts are public information....kathy

The_Conductor

sobs wrote: »

Crikey!!! Does this mean that anyone that knows my name, has a birth date for my child could get a birth cert for my child? A birth cert contains info about the parents also such as occupation, address and age. Surely this is not public information. I thought these records were only available up to the 1960s.

Kathy is correct.
Birth, marriage and death certificates, along with voter registers are indeed public records and can be viewed by anyone at all.

Other records that are public record include recipients of government payments which are funded partially or wholly by the EU (e.g. all farmer payments and joint capital expenditure programmes), and the proposals are that all public disbursements (including social welfare payments) will be fully available to public scrutiny by July 2010.

The extent of information in the public domain is mind boggling. Most people are very much unaware of just what anyone at all can find out about them......

Ostrom

sobs wrote: »

Crikey!!! Does this mean that anyone that knows my name, has a birth date for my child could get a birth cert for my child? A birth cert contains info about the parents also such as occupation, address and age. Surely this is not public information. I thought these records were only available up to the 1960s.

In terms of clarity, it tends to work the opposite way

All public, bar those lost to the great fire pre-1912 (If I remember my dates....)

redgp

I have two days of work and I'm going to go search for my original birth cert. Will this be enough time?? I think the whole thing is rather taunting. I only have my place of birth and the date I was born as well as my mother's first name. Will this be enough?? Thanks!

The_Conductor

redgp wrote: »

I have two days of work and I'm going to go search for my original birth cert. Will this be enough time?? I think the whole thing is rather taunting. I only have my place of birth and the date I was born as well as my mother's first name. Will this be enough?? Thanks!

It should be plenty of time.

A few things:

Do not assume that the information you have is correct- make sure you do not stop searching simply because you find a cert with the right first name.

Depending on your own birthname- its possible there may be multiple matches (e.g. James used be a very popular name).

Your place of birth may not be properly recorded in the book- some adoptions are simply under the NC4 code. Its probably accurate- but as per previously- make sure you go through all the books- even after you find a match.

I think you meant 'daunting' rather than 'taunting'- but believe you me- it often seems to be both in equal measure

Have a look at the traceguide in the stickies and I'd suggest printing off a copy and bringing it with you.

Best wishes,

Shane

kathy finn

hi, i agree with shane you should have plenty of time,my advice is to get there early and take ur time look out for the mothers surname and marraige name being the same a dead givaway that they were,nt married also no fathers name.
it is daunting but also very rewarding to eventually have ur own birthcert, i could,nt stop looking at mine and saying my name out loud,was even going to frame it and hang it on the wall..:D:D

redgp

Thanks Kathy and Shane for all the advice!! I found it though I haven't learned anything from it. It doesn't have my father's name on it even though I know they were still together a year after I was born and it doesn't have any information on her. Just her name and I couldn't find her birth certificate anywhere. Is there a longer version I can order which would have time of birth.....etc. Or is that it?? Thanks a million for all your help!!

kathy finn

congrats on finding ur birthcert, your mother would not have been allowed to but your fathers name on the birthcert, my fathers name was not on mine either but the adoption agency had his name.
why don,t you now look for a marraige cert, you have her maiden name and if you have an idea from which part of the country she was from, start to look for marraiges after u where born.
if u can,t find a marraige record for her, start to look in the uk there a loads of online sites in the uk and it,s very easy to use.
even if you applied for ur longform birthcert it will only contain the same info u have....kathy

redgp

Thanks for that kathy. The certificate I got didn't state her address or occupation at the time of birth or her birthday. Would the long form birth cert not contain that information?

kathy finn

hi,
no i have just pulled out my long form birthcert and the only info on it is my date of birth, my name at the time and my birthmothers name and the hospital i was born and when the birth was registered.
but you have a good chance of traceing her, don,t give up....kathy

trishar

you should have enough info there to find your b/cert. Were you not given your mothers full name from the adoption board, and are you not entitled to it and all info held about you. do not pay the €20 fee if you are only looking for one b/cert i think its only €6. good luck.

martinf

Hi Trishar,

Unfortunately, unfairly and unjustly adoptees have no right to their information nor to their mothers name. Many agencies may provide a first name but don't provide a full name as that could lead to the information being identifying. If another grouping in society were denied access to their record on the basis of their gender, race or religion it would be deemed discrimination.

Best wishes

Martin