What should I do?

Jack_Frost

Hi guys,

I'm currently in 5th year in a certain hated grind school and am starting to understand where sentiment originates from. I was previously in a local non-paying school, which I loved, and where I was doing very well.

My parents want me to stay, but with the recession and whatnot, a certain element of guilt is coming over me. It is a large amount of money to be paying and from the onset, I realised financial burden I would be. And so, I am considering returning to my beloved old school.

But, only today, I heard from friends that the abysmal standards of teaching, the main reason I left, were still rife.

I miss my old friends. The people in this school are all nice enough, but you always feel the false smile of pretence, which is synonymous with the name.

I'm just afraid that if I return, I may get a somewhat frosty reception. It won't be from my friends, of course, but rather the self proclaimed "shmadt lads".

I left on a very positive note with all the teachers, so I doubt (hope) bitterness will not be an issue with them.

On a side note, I am getting tired of my current 6.30am wake-up calls, when I could get up at 8.20am and be comfortably in on time in my old school!

One last thing, please don't take the opinion that I agree with "A&F lifestyle", on which some students in the grind pride themselves. It really makes me sick to see such vain and "branded" attitudes. And I don't live the "Starbucks Dream" of the IOE.

Opinions, please.

Thanks in advance,

JF

Fad

Woe is me.............

I think the decision is pretty obvious, stay where you are unless your parents are struggling with the money.

Why did you move in the first place?

marshmallow

I'd finish out 5th year and then talk it over with your parents. A girl I know moved to the IOE in 5th year, hated it and returned to her old school for 6th year.

lou91

Jack_Frost wrote: »

Hi guys,

I'm currently in 5th year in a certain hated grind school and am starting to understand where sentiment originates from. I was previously in a local non-paying school, which I loved, and where I was doing very well.

My parents want me to stay, but with the recession and whatnot, a certain element of guilt is coming over me. It is a large amount of money to be paying and from the onset, I realised financial burden I would be. And so, I am considering returning to my beloved old school.

But, only today, I heard from friends that the abysmal standards of teaching, the main reason I left, were still rife.

I miss my old friends. The people in this school are all nice enough, but you always feel the false smile of pretence, which is synonymous with the name.

I'm just afraid that if I return, I may get a somewhat frosty reception. It won't be from my friends, of course, but rather the self proclaimed "shmadt lads".

I left on a very positive note with all the teachers, so I doubt (hope) bitterness will not be an issue with them.

On a side note, I am getting tired of my current 6.30am wake-up calls, when I could get up at 8.20am and be comfortably in on time in my old school!

One last thing, please don't take the opinion that I agree with "A&F lifestyle", on which some students in the grind pride themselves. It really makes me sick to see such vain and "branded" attitudes. And I don't live the "Starbucks Dream" of the IOE.

Opinions, please.

Thanks in advance,

JF

Wow... I can relate. I'm in sixth year in said hated grind school. You're right about the A&F lifestyle. Its made me a bitter person in some ways. I have absolutely zero respect for roughly half the people in my year because they couldn't care less about the fees and a lot just go for the social scene.

With regards to leaving, its a tough call. I suppose it depends on what you want in college really. If you're looking for something like medicine it'd probably be best to stay. I'm looking for over 550 and I'm working really hard, but there's a tiny little voice in the back of my head wondering if I could have managed in my old school. Probably not, but still. Have you considered going back to your school but coming in to the institute for Friday/Saturday grinds? The notes are pretty much the same and if the teachers know you they'll probably give you any help or advice if you need it.

BTW, nothing wrong with Starbucks! Cafe Sol, that's the bad one....

Mr.Helpful

JF

To be honest, I can seriously relate to your prediciment, as i got to the school right beside the IOE. While the A&F rampint in my school its probally not the same as in the IOE. However I do have the utter misfortune of passing some of them who to be honest are as thick as two planks of wood or have more make-up on than a hooker!! :P

However with regards to leaving, Id say finish out 5th year and talk to your parents over the summer, there is no point in making decisions now which you might regret later!

Jack_Frost

RandomUserName! wrote: »

Wow... I can relate. I'm in sixth year in said hated grind school. You're right about the A&F lifestyle. Its made me a bitter person in some ways. I have absolutely zero respect for roughly half the people in my year because they couldn't care less about the fees and a lot just go for the social scene.

With regards to leaving, its a tough call. I suppose it depends on what you want in college really. If you're looking for something like medicine it'd probably be best to stay. I'm looking for over 550 and I'm working really hard, but there's a tiny little voice in the back of my head wondering if I could have managed in my old school. Probably not, but still. Have you considered going back to your school but coming in to the institute for Friday/Saturday grinds? The notes are pretty much the same and if the teachers know you they'll probably give you any help or advice if you need it.

BTW, nothing wrong with Starbucks! Cafe Sol, that's the bad one....

Yeah, as it so happens, I am going for med. Obviously, med is a high points course, but honestly, with the new hpat system, I don't feel it completely necessary that I "grind" through the LC. It's difficult to say without sounding extremely arrogant (and apologies if I do), but the LC courses aren't as difficult as they're made out to be. They're tough enough in places but most of the time what seems to be rewarded is memory capacity and in few exceptions, (appmaths and maths ), the ability to logically think.

Also, the IOE is not what I would regard as school. No PE, no RE, no extra curriculars like musicals, plays, etc. There really is hardly any school spirit. The IOE doesn't give you a complete education; it buys you a Leaving Cert.

Fad

Jack_Frost wrote: »

Also, the IOE is not what I would regard as school. No PE, no RE, no extra curriculars like musicals, plays, etc. There really is hardly any school spirit. The IOE doesn't give you a complete education; it buys you a Leaving Cert.

You sound remarkably like another poster here.........

Also isnt there PE in the IOE? (Apparently not any more)

Also look here

Either you are blowing things are blowing things out of proportion or they are, and I know who I believe.......

Stev_o

Jack_Frost wrote: »

Yeah, as it so happens, I am going for med. Obviously, med is a high points course, but honestly, with the new hpat system, I don't feel it completely necessary that I "grind" through the LC. It's difficult to say without sounding extremely arrogant (and apologies if I do), but the LC courses aren't as difficult as they're made out to be. They're tough enough in places but most of the time what seems to be rewarded is memory capacity and in few exceptions, (appmaths and maths ), the ability to logically think.

Also, the IOE is not what I would regard as school. No PE, no RE, no extra curriculars like musicals, plays, etc. There really is hardly any school spirit. The IOE doesn't give you a complete education; it buys you a Leaving Cert.

You get out of there what you put in, they don't have magic dust and spray giving you a instant A1. The A&F thing is bs yes people wear it but it's clothes at the end of the day and the fact that you'd judge people soley on their clothes is extremely hypocritical from you.

Look why are you there? Why did you decide to change schools to go there? Did you have a choice? Sorry but i really can't understand your situation you must of known what the school is about before you asked your parents to splash 7 grand on it.

Jack_Frost

Stev_o wrote: »

You get out of there what you put in, they don't have magic dust and spray giving you a instant A1. The A&F thing is bs yes people wear it but it's clothes at the end of the day and the fact that you'd judge people soley on their clothes is extremely hypocritical from you.

Look why are you there? Why did you decide to change schools to go there? Did you have a choice? Sorry but i really can't understand your situation you must of known what the school is about before you asked your parents to splash 7 grand on it.

Hi Steve,

That post was extremely unhelpful. I hope the mocks are going well, though. You must be stressed, what with your midterm lost to exams.

I am not looking for an argument with stressed students but my observation with respect to A&F was simply that: an observation. I am entitled to read in to such behaviours as I please.

And I wonder where you got the idea that I believe there is a magical spray the teachers have which guarantees the A1? Surely, my reference to hard work in memorizing relevent material and also my acknowledgement of logical thinking's rewards would suggest my realization of the lack of such miracle pill.

Good luck with the LC.

JF

Stev_o

Jack_Frost wrote: »

Hi Steve,

That post was extremely unhelpful. I hope the mocks are going well, though. You must be stressed, what with your midterm lost to exams.

I am not looking for an argument with stressed students but my observation with respect to A&F was simply that: an observation. I am entitled to read in to such behaviours as I please.

And I wonder where you got the idea that I believe there is a magical spray the teachers have which guarantees the A1? Surely, my reference to hard work in memorizing relevent material and also my acknowledgement of logical thinking's rewards would suggest my realization of the lack of such miracle pill.

Good luck with the LC.

JF

You'v completely blanked my questions.

Jack_Frost

Stev_o wrote: »

You'v completely blanked my questions.

Why did I choose to go? With all the hype surrounding the leaving cert, I thought it may have been advantageous to enrol in a school with a record of high achievement. I can now see why the results are so impressive. The teachers are almost all excellent, but more importantly, there a lot of students with 8, 9, 10 or 11 A's in the JC who would do brilliantly in their old schools. There are however many mediocre students who will do as badly as they would do in their old schools.

It was my choice to go, btw.

I did realize what it would be like but I didn't think I'd miss old school so much.

I'm looking for advice, not criticisms.

Fad

Jack_Frost wrote: »

I did realize what it would be like but I didn't think I'd miss old school so much.

I'm looking for advice, not criticisms.

If your looking for advice then why bother clouding it a bit with the recession crap.

I get that you miss your old school, but seriously do you miss enough to move back?

None of us know you or your school so we cant say you'll get a frosty reaction.

I doubt that you parents will be too pleased tbh but then again, I dont know you or them.

Stev_o

So you found out that the school is is split between the extremely talented the average and the poor. Common sense says that every school is the same but the big difference is that IOE is huge, there's over 700 students in 6th year which means you will see alot more of these 3 groups then your normal 60 student sized years in most schools.

I mean look, you want medicine your in a school where alot of people are in the same pond. The teachers there will give everything they can to get you the highest possible grades. Remember these teachers are on contract if they don't get the results they are fired so it's not like your another number.

Ill say it once ill say it again, you only get the best out of the IOE if you put the best into it. Simple as.

poppy08

I get what your saying, you miss your old life? It can be hard fitting into a new school (especially if your from outside dublin) but next year all your friends will be in the same boat:pac:

As far as studying goes, med even with hpat is goin to be extremely hard to get into. (i'm in 6th form) i work my ass off everyday, do really well in all my class tests, only have to move up less about 50 points and still i am petrified i won't get the points:o

my point is: you need to decide whats more important your social life(and possibily sanity) or your college course

Me? i'd choose college any day:D! Next year, you and I (hopefully) will be laughing at all the complaining we did about how hard our ickle LC was!

otherwise you cud b stuck repeating. then you might be happy in the knowledge you had a happy 6th year with your old mates in the percious years of your life. or you could be kicking yourself for your selfishness and naivety for leaving IOE

(or might just be happy with the point you might get in you old school)


your choice man!:(

lou91

Jack_Frost wrote: »

Why did I choose to go? With all the hype surrounding the leaving cert, I thought it may have been advantageous to enrol in a school with a record of high achievement. I can now see why the results are so impressive. The teachers are almost all excellent, but more importantly, there a lot of students with 8, 9, 10 or 11 A's in the JC who would do brilliantly in their old schools. There are however many mediocre students who will do as badly as they would do in their old schools.

QUOTE]

This is true.
That whole thing about "helping all students achieve their full potential, whatever that may be" is just a bit of BS to cover up the fact that half the year coast completely, do nothing and get 300 and something points.

I'm a little confused though... You're surprised that the institute doesn't do RE and plays and stuff? I don't really know what you expected TBH. The point of the place is to provide great teachers and facilities, not much else. You said you were sick of bad teaching standards in your old school, surely that takes priority? I don't see how someone going for medicine would have a whole lot of time for stuff like plays anyway.
That said, 5th form have some good extra-curriculars if you get involved. I know the debating team for one is doing pretty great this year. As people have said, you get out of it what you put in.
Tis a cliche for a reason!

Jack_Frost

RandomUserName! wrote: »

This is true.
That whole thing about "helping all students achieve their full potential, whatever that may be" is just a bit of BS to cover up the fact that half the year coast completely, do nothing and get 300 and something points.

I'm a little confused though... You're surprised that the institute doesn't do RE and plays and stuff? I don't really know what you expected TBH. The point of the place is to provide great teachers and facilities, not much else. You said you were sick of bad teaching standards in your old school, surely that takes priority? I don't see how someone going for medicine would have a whole lot of time for stuff like plays anyway.
That said, 5th form have some good extra-curriculars if you get involved. I know the debating team for one is doing pretty great this year. As people have said, you get out of it what you put in.
Tis a cliche for a reason!

I know, I know. I do put a lot of effort in. I always have. I have always been determined to ensure that if I cannot do something, it's not because I didn't try hard enough. Obviously, I always knew that there would be none of the plays, musicals, etc, in the IOE. It's only a few buildings on a street, so I presumed they would be accommodating in that respect.

And of course, I would not have any time to take part in such activities next year, but they are important, nonetheless. I never realised though how essential such activities are in maintaining the academic-recreational balance.

This new med system has really put me in muddle. I no longer need nearly 600 points. In the humblest way possible, I'm confident that, if I work hard for the next 1.5 years, I could get 550 (I did very very well in the JC and got 7 A's and B1 this Christmas). There really is not much reward after 550 with the new system so the necessity for 6 A1's would no longer seem to be there.

Decisions, decisions.

I'll leave it for while.

Btw, thanks for the help guys. With the exception of one post you've been a big help.

And I think someone said there's about 700 in 6th form. I think it's closer to 1200!!:eek:

Stev_o

Jack_Frost wrote: »

I know, I know. I do put a lot of effort in. I always have. I have always been determined to ensure that if I cannot do something, it's not because I didn't try hard enough. Obviously, I always knew that there would be none of the plays, musicals, etc, in the IOE. It's only a few buildings on a street, so I presumed they would be accommodating in that respect.

And of course, I would not have any time to take part in such activities next year, but they are important, nonetheless. I never realised though how essential such activities are in maintaining the academic-recreational balance.

This new med system has really put me in muddle. I no longer need nearly 600 points. In the humblest way possible, I'm confident that, if I work hard for the next 1.5 years, I could get 550 (I did very very well in the JC and got 7 A's and B1 this Christmas). There really is not much reward after 550 with the new system so the necessity for 6 A1's would no longer seem to be there.

Decisions, decisions.

I'll leave it for while.

Btw, thanks for the help guys. With the exception of one post you've been a big help.

And I think someone said there's about 700 in 6th form. I think it's closer to 1200!!:eek:

Note to self getting people to actually think why they are doing something is bad..........constructive criticism is bad............pointing out untrue statements very bad indeed! Your posts and reply's were like a political statement it said alot but didn't answer and outline anything

Fad

Jack_Frost wrote: »

I know, I know. I do put a lot of effort in. I always have. I have always been determined to ensure that if I cannot do something, it's not because I didn't try hard enough. Obviously, I always knew that there would be none of the plays, musicals, etc, in the IOE. It's only a few buildings on a street, so I presumed they would be accommodating in that respect.

And of course, I would not have any time to take part in such activities next year, but they are important, nonetheless. I never realised though how essential such activities are in maintaining the academic-recreational balance.

This new med system has really put me in muddle. I no longer need nearly 600 points. In the humblest way possible, I'm confident that, if I work hard for the next 1.5 years, I could get 550 (I did very very well in the JC and got 7 A's and B1 this Christmas). There really is not much reward after 550 with the new system so the necessity for 6 A1's would no longer seem to be there.

The points for Med will still be very competitive unless you're absolutely amazing at the Hpat

spurious

Talk to your parents.
It's not healthy to be letting this stress you as much as it seems to be doing.

By far the most influential factor in your education, as with anyone's, is your home support and upbringing. If you want to change school, change. The main thing is not to be fretting about 'where' you are doing your exam. There are enough other things to worry about.

Delta Kilo

Fad wrote: »

You sound remarkably like another poster here.........

Also isnt there PE in the IOE? (Apparently not any more)

Also look here

Either you are blowing things are blowing things out of proportion or they are, and I know who I believe.......

Would that be me by any chance, Fad? That link doesn't really impress me either, I mean a chess club? Pop music group ffs. Jack_Frost is a student at IOE and he affirms what I believed. But we are not going to go there with this thread!

I agree 100% with what spurious says and I hope that the people around you support your decision whatever that may be. At the end of the day, it is your life and it should be you that makes the final decision, regardless of what others think and regardless of ability to pay the IOE's fees.

You really do need a healthy balance of study and recreation to get you through the LC and to give you the ability to keep a steady momentum going so that you peak at the correct time.

PurpleFistMixer

Jack Frost, to me you sound like a pretty dedicated and motivated student, am I correct? If this is the case, unless your teachers really are DIRE (ie giving you wrong info for the exams, not correcting homework, not covering the course, etc.), I'd hazard to say that you should be able to excel equally well in any school...*


*That said, this may just be my own madness. I'm of the opinion that a lot of people are motivated to getting grinds/going to grind schools in the belief that this will somehow lessen the amount of study they have to do... at the end of the day you and you alone need to learn the material, no teacher can learn it for you. Certainly they can aid in the learning of difficult concepts, etc., but tbh, given the general memory-fest that is the LC, the best a teacher can do is encourage your interest in the subject and motivate you to do the work. If you already have the motivation, the teacher's task is less important, and I would argue then it's more important to be in a place that makes you happy.**

**And a second caveat here; I'm speaking from my own experience mostly, I went to a fairly mediocre school as far as league tables/overall results went, but I (shall not lie here) was a pretty dedicated student so I got my 600 points and I'm glad I didn't go to a grind school, or in fact, any school that was more exam-focused becaus with the pressure I was already putting on myself, I didn't need any more of it coming from school. We mostly had a laugh in school (maths class was spent playing count down). This probably didn't suit other students who found it hard to motivate themselves (I'm guessing competition between students and pressure from the school motivates people to work), and so they might have been better off in a different school if they wanted high points, so I'm not saying everyone should do what I did... just that not everyone is necessarily better off a grind school. : p



Also, Stev_o, are you on this thread to contribute something or to argue with the OP?

EDIT: Also, "Other Activities in which students have participated include"... I dunno about you guys, but if the IOE is anything like my school, they put down things the students did that were entirely unrelated to the school... ie my school was all "this girl went to 'nam with the physics olympiad", and hell, if anything my school stopped me from doing that, my physics teacher didn't even send in my application ffs (though she was pregnant so was maybe distracted, but still!)... But yes, somewhat off topic. >.>

Fad

Delta Kilo wrote: »

Would that be me by any chance, Fad?

Wasnt actually you:pac:

shockhorror27

there are two sides of it as far as I can see:

1) school is a very important time. the friends you make there more often than not are the friends you'll have for most of your life, even more so than the ones you make in college, so on this basis it would make sense to enjoy school and the people you experience it with.

2) school is just a means to the end. you could look at in the bigger picture of a year's time and realise that maybe the grind school will get you what you want, whereas you old school may not. it is just a year after all.

Just two thoughts.