House Value

guideanna

Hi All,

Just looking for another point of view on this one.

I've been looking at buying a house this year. A particular house i've seen is being advertised as 400k (beautiful house is our perfect location). Apparantly the developer is gone bankrupt and the house is not completely finished but has to be sold off. I know the house was being advertised orig. for the 460 mark but obviously no one was interested as the house is not actually finished just built and plastered. Basically a shell!
My question is with property set to come down again this year what sort of offer should i be looking at giving. I'd rather go low and have to bargin with them. I was thinking along the lines of, well if the house is not sold in another 6 months then the price will have to come down again anyway?

I'd be willing/able to pay around the 350 mark but not really any more than that. Would it look like i was taking the mick' to offer anything less than that or even that?
Don't want to be laughed at when i approach the auctioneer.

Cheers

ntlbell

how much work and hwo much money would need to be put into the house?

don't worry about people laughing at you.

it won't hurt.

buying an over priced property might tho.

guideanna

Well thats what i was thinking.
There's no kitchen or floors put in the downstairs. Upstairs has floors and bathroom fittings. Electrics look like they just need second fitting (least i hope so with the plastered walls) and that's about it so i'd say you'd be looking at another 10-15 just to get it livable in.
I really love the house so i'm seriously considering putting in a bid for somewhere around the 320 mark and see what kind of response i'm given.

If it's a bankrupt sale would that mean the want it sold asap to pay off debtors?

ntlbell

If you have 10%-20% deposit and the repayments have been stress tested against 2/3 interest hikes and you're planning on living in the house for the next 10 years or more.

I'd start off with about 30%-35%+cost of
works to be done based on this I'd be offering roughly 265k if all the above was true.

be careful about getting too attached a lot of people are starting to find their "dream" home at the right price and are rushing in as they're afraid they'll be snapped up as time goes on there will be TONS of bargains and TONS of your "ideal" home at much lower prices.

EKRIUQ

A house originally asking €460,000 and offering 265k is really taking the piss:rolleyes: and forget about anyone ever contacting you again about the house as they will assume you can't afford it, I know I would.

Get a builder to quote you how much the finishing work would cost and then work out how much you want it before someone else comes along because if you found this house someone else will too.

professore

EKRIUQ wrote: »

A house originally asking €460,000 and offering 265k is really taking the piss:rolleyes: and forget about anyone ever contacting you again about the house as they will assume you can't afford it, I know I would.

Get a builder to quote you how much the finishing work would cost and then work out how much you want it before someone else comes along because if you found this house someone else will too.

EKRIUQ is obviously a builder or estate agent. Hate to break it to ya mate but there are very few properties in Ireland worth 460 K at the moment. Houses have still a LOOOONG way to fall.

aviendha

+1
Friend put in offer of 650K on house advertised at 1m... no word from estate agent for 2 weeks.. then... "eh maybe we can talk some more"
haggle hard!

ntlbell

EKRIUQ wrote: »

A house originally asking €460,000 and offering 265k is really taking the piss:rolleyes: and forget about anyone ever contacting you again about the house as they will assume you can't afford it, I know I would.

Get a builder to quote you how much the finishing work would cost and then work out how much you want it before someone else comes along because if you found this house someone else will too.

someone looking for 400 not 460 for an unfinished house that there's obviously very little interest in is taken the p|ss not?

the hint is in the builder going bankrupt.

mukki

EKRIUQ wrote: »

A house originally asking €460,000 and offering 265k is really taking the piss:rolleyes: and forget about anyone ever contacting you again about the house as they will assume you can't afford it, I know I would.

Get a builder to quote you how much the finishing work would cost and then work out how much you want it before someone else comes along because if you found this house someone else will too.

Remember...


an item is worth the highest amount a person is willing to spend on it

Freddie59

professore wrote: »

EKRIUQ is obviously a builder or estate agent. Hate to break it to ya mate but there are very few properties in Ireland worth 460 K at the moment. Houses have still a LOOOONG way to fall.

+1.

I keep posting these links anytime something like this comes up:

www.thepropertypin.com

www.treesdontgrowtothesky.com

www.irishpropertywatch.com

Viewed a house in Waterford yesterday. Got the whole lecture about prices bottoming out:rolleyes:, €1bn for FTBs, etc.

Hold your nerve.:)

Senna

EKRIUQ wrote: »

A house originally asking €460,000 and offering 265k is really taking the piss:rolleyes: and forget about anyone ever contacting you again about the house as they will assume you can't afford it, I know I would.

Business must be very slow in your office if you dismiss people completely and don't bother contacting them if you 'think' the offer is too low. I wonder how much business you've lost with this kind of attitude? Do you really think that if you cant be bothered to call someone back they will every deal with you again?
I know i wouldn't.
Good luck in the future:rolleyes:

sadista

professore wrote: »

Houses have still a LOOOONG way to fall.

For how long?
The reason I ask is beacause I am considering buying in a while too, preferably in the north kildare area but after checking new properties on daft the average cost of an average house is still too expensive.
im Currently saving a deposit but I reckon it will take me the guts of another year to get enough money together, get the car paid off etc.

Can anyone speculate as to what the prices would be like this time next year? Might we expect prices similar to the current price of property in Westmeath or lower?

guideanna

guideanna wrote: »

Hi All,

Just looking for another point of view on this one.

I've been looking at buying a house this year. A particular house i've seen is being advertised as 400k (beautiful house is our perfect location). Apparantly the developer is gone bankrupt and the house is not completely finished but has to be sold off. I know the house was being advertised orig. for the 460 mark but obviously no one was interested as the house is not actually finished just built and plastered. Basically a shell!
My question is with property set to come down again this year what sort of offer should i be looking at giving. I'd rather go low and have to bargin with them. I was thinking along the lines of, well if the house is not sold in another 6 months then the price will have to come down again anyway?

I'd be willing/able to pay around the 350 mark but not really any more than that. Would it look like i was taking the mick' to offer anything less than that or even that?
Don't want to be laughed at when i approach the auctioneer.

Cheers

I wouldnt offer more than 200k tbh. House prices have a long long way to fall yet, we are only seeing the start of it.

sadista

sadista wrote: »

For how long?
The reason I ask is beacause I am considering buying in a while too, preferably in the north kildare area but after checking new properties on daft the average cost of an average house is still too expensive.
im Currently saving a deposit but I reckon it will take me the guts of another year to get enough money together, get the car paid off etc.

Can anyone speculate as to what the prices would be like this time next year? Might we expect prices similar to the current price of property in Westmeath or lower?

The avaerage house price nationally is 260k at the moment. Id speculate that the average will drop to 120-130k

Mr. Presentable

professore wrote: »

EKRIUQ is obviously a builder or estate agent. Hate to break it to ya mate but there are very few properties in Ireland worth 460 K at the moment. Houses have still a LOOOONG way to fall.

And here we have somebody with

a) a chip on their shoulder, and
b) no idea what they are talking about.

OP, you are asking a bunch of randomers (myself included) for an opinion on something you will have to live with. Seriously, no one, no, not even professore, has a clue if prices will go down further or by how much. If you are buying to live as opposed to invest, then the time frame is maybe 20 years, so what might happen to prices in the next 2-3 years is irrelevant.

Mr. Presentable

mukki wrote: »

Remember...


an item is worth the highest amount a person is willing to spend on it

This, at least, is correct.

Johnny Bitte

nipplenuts wrote: »

If you are buying to live as opposed to invest, then the time frame is maybe 20 years, so what might happen to prices in the next 2-3 years is irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant if the price falls lets says even 50k in the next year?

Surely saving that kinda of money is worth it regardless of renting or ocupying.

Johnny Bitte

rarnes1 wrote: »

The avaerage house price nationally is 260k at the moment. Id speculate that the average will drop to 120-130k

Lets hope so.:D

asdasd

If you are buying to live as opposed to invest, then the time frame is maybe 20 years, so what might happen to prices in the next 2-3 years is irrelevant.

Of course it is relevent. And I keep hearing this stupidity in these types of threads.

The cost of buying now is the cost of forgoing the difference between the price of the house now and the cheaper price of the house in the future, multipled by the interest you pay over the lifetime of the loan - minus rent while you wait.

So if your rent costs 1K euro a month you should not buy if prices in the next year fall more than 8K on average - I am assuming each 1K loaned takes 1.5K to payback. That is merely 2-3% of the average price of a house. Also get a rent reduction.

Now heres a statistic I thought was generally well known:

36,000 people became unemployed in Jan, and thats a yearly rate of more than 400K which would make the unemplyment rate about 30% at the end of 2009 were it to continue.

House prices have a long way to fall.

Mr. Presentable

asdasd wrote: »

Of course it is relevent. And I keep hearing this stupidity in these types of threads.

The cost of buying now is the cost of forgoing the difference between the price of the house now and the cheaper price of the house in the future, multipled by the interest you pay over the lifetime of the loan - minus rent while you wait.

So if your rent costs 1K euro a month you should not buy if prices in the next year fall more than 8K on average - I am assuming each 1K loaned takes 1.5K to payback. That is merely 2-3% of the average price of a house. Also get a rent reduction.



House prices have a long way to fall.

But all of this is conjecture. All. You do not know any of this. It is all speculation. This is my point. Call it stupidity if you wish, but admit you don't have a f77king clue what will happen in the future.

Senna

nipplenuts wrote: »

But all of this is conjecture. All. You do not know any of this. It is all speculation. This is my point. Call it stupidity if you wish, but admit you don't have a f77king clue what will happen in the future.

It is speculation, thats why people come on forums and ask questions. If they wanted facts they would just google them. That OP asked a question and people have given opinions. If you want to give your opinion thats fine, but so far you are just attacking posters and not contributing anything to the topic.

OP, the market is in free fall, where it ends no-one knows, you should base your 'offer' on studying the market and knowing where the market is going, you may arrive at a price of X, if that is refused you should wait till that price is accepted.
House prices wont find a bottom till the market starts to function again, the market will not function when so many people are frighten to buy. Last year most buyers were waiting till prices dropped further, at the moment people are still waiting for the prices to drop but there is also lending problems and a lack of job security. This is going to continue because
1. Average House prices are still 7/8 times average wages (our wages are high and might need to fall). This is unsustainable and brought on by the huge amount of cheap credit available since 2000.

2. Banks have tightened up the criteria need to get a mortgage, this is a return to normality after the madness of the last few years. Credit Lending levels set prices, that's what caused prices to go up so high and it will be a major factor in dictating were the market should be. If banks had of stuck to the old levels of lending a person 2.5-3.5 their annual wage, prices would never have went up by so much. They would have only went up with inflation and wage increases, but during 2004-2006 wages were going up higher than inflation because house prices were increasing by so much.

3. There is a huge amount of empties in Ireland, there maybe as many as 300k houses that are not PPR's or being rented (90k of new builds and a possible 25k more this year). Sellers cant just sit with house and need to sell, but with few buyers willing to buy now, prices just have to be lowered and lowered till the market starts to function. Its a vicious circle, in a lot of cases seller have to sell, but buyers dont need to buy till there is less risk. At the moment there is too much risk, i cannot see anything changing that, this year or next, possibly 2011 and further.


We can look at other property booms to get an idea of what will happen, Ireland is no different to any other country that has had a boom, prices normally continue to drop for 7 years and they normally drop further than what could be called a sustainable level. But the problem is we are experiencing our bust at the time of a global recession, that may speed up the cycle, but it will also mean prices could drop even further than that sustainable level.

Johnny Bitte

Some really good points Senna, on top of all that ntlbell made a point of some people, like me, that might buy now out of fear that the house we want may go to some one else given the false impression that things are on the up but I think I ll have to convince the misses that we ll be holding out for a bit longer from what I ve read here and on other sites.

Hell it could mean 100k in the difference.

Freddie59

nipplenuts wrote: »

And here we have somebody with

a) a chip on their shoulder, and
b) no idea what they are talking about.

OP, you are asking a bunch of randomers (myself included) for an opinion on something you will have to live with. Seriously, no one, no, not even professore, has a clue if prices will go down further or by how much. If you are buying to live as opposed to invest, then the time frame is maybe 20 years, so what might happen to prices in the next 2-3 years is irrelevant.

My friend, no-one has a chip on their shoulder other than your good self.:) Here is the reality.

* Prices are grossly overinflated.

* There is an oversupply. The law of supply and demand comes into play.

* House prices will continue to fall. It is inevitable.

Check the history of every property bubble and you will see the same thing happened. Yet, there are people like yourself and EKRIUQ who live in a state of denial, trying to perpetuate these unsustainable prices.

It doesn't take a genius to figure that poster EKRIUQ is either working for, or is, an auctioneer. The clue is in the username.;):)

And as for the statement that it doesn't matter if a price drops by €50k.:eek: Stupidity of the highest order.

It is €50k less of a debt. Senior infants would see that one coming!:D OP - as I said already. Hold your nerve. And don't be intimidated by the ravings of some people, guaranteeing you that 'the bottom has been reached':rolleyes:. It hasn't. And won't be for quite a while yet.

Macha

nipplenuts wrote: »

And here we have somebody with

a) a chip on their shoulder, and
b) no idea what they are talking about.

I could very easily say that you are someone who:

a) quite possibly has a vested interest in seeing property prices rise
b) no clue what you're talking about

nipplenuts wrote: »

Seriously, no one, no, not even professore, has a clue if prices will go down further or by how much.

However, educated guesses can be made. Look at supply vs demand, restricted lending procedures and the average person's ability to pay. It doesn't take a degree in economics to see that prices are going to go down a lot.

Keith C

sadista wrote: »

For how long?
The reason I ask is beacause I am considering buying in a while too, preferably in the north kildare area but after checking new properties on daft the average cost of an average house is still too expensive.
im Currently saving a deposit but I reckon it will take me the guts of another year to get enough money together, get the car paid off etc.

Can anyone speculate as to what the prices would be like this time next year? Might we expect prices similar to the current price of property in Westmeath or lower?

use this site & type in area your looking at, shows houses for sale & rent

worth a look for other posters who think the market is bottoming out :rolleyes:

www.irishpropertywatch.com

bogman44

nipplenuts wrote: »

But all of this is conjecture. All. You do not know any of this. It is all speculation. This is my point. Call it stupidity if you wish, but admit you don't have a f77king clue what will happen in the future.

There are plenty of clues out there as to what way the housing market is going.
That's downwards, nippplenuts.
Open your eyes/ears.

oceanclub

nipplenuts wrote: »

If you are buying to live as opposed to invest, then the time frame is maybe 20 years, so what might happen to prices in the next 2-3 years is irrelevant.

Sorry, but this simply isn't true and I have no idea why people keep repeating this cliche.

What situation is better:

a) Spend 300,000 now on a house you can just about afford.
b) Stick your deposit in the bank, wait until the property market has bottomed out, and spend 300,000 on a house you really like.

If I'd listened to people like you, I would bought a house 2 years ago in an area I wasn't particularly keen on. Now, I can afford a house in an area I quite like. Better still, I'm going to hang on and buy a house in that area for even less.

P.

guideanna

EKRIUQ wrote: »

A house originally asking €460,000 and offering 265k is really taking the piss:rolleyes: and forget about anyone ever contacting you again about the house as they will assume you can't afford it, I know I would.

Get a builder to quote you how much the finishing work would cost and then work out how much you want it before someone else comes along because if you found this house someone else will too.

The house price at the moment stands at 400k not 460 which was the orig. price. Obviously the house did not sell at this price and so whats to make me think it wouldn't drop again. My point being that i'd rather offer too little than too much.
I think 265 is a good starting point anyway!