bank card scams

scully74

a friend of mine had his card scammed, they had withdrawn 1200e,in two withdrawals what amazes me is they could withdraw more than his limit on his own card in one go. i.e. his limit is 700e and they took 800e.....how the f**k is that,bank said they didn't know how it was done...... this whole banking stuff is alot less secure than we are lead to believe

aphex™

I heard they do it at midnight so you can withdraw one amount in one day and the same 30 seconds later

yoshytoshy

What I do with AIB banking is ,keep only a couple of hundred euro in the laser account.
And keep the rest is a "savings" account ,it's very easy to transfer money to the laser account when it's needed.

Diggabot

I think thats usually how they do it. I work in retail and we're seeing a huge rise in the amount of duplicate cards being used. They look identical, have the PIN... you'd never know. I'm getting really wary about using my own card these days!

Diggabot

yoshytoshy wrote: »

What I do with AIB banking is ,keep only a couple of hundred euro in the laser account.
And keep the rest is a "savings" account ,it's very easy to transfer money to the laser account when it's needed.

Yeah, I do the same. Transfer in what I need and then withdraw it. Chip & PIN was supposed to make banking more secure but I don't think it really is any more secure.

scully74

yoshytoshy wrote: »

What I do with AIB banking is ,keep only a couple of hundred euro in the laser account.
And keep the rest is a "savings" account ,it's very easy to transfer money to the laser account when it's needed.

was reading another topic with a guy who was saying his acc was hacked and they took 539e and he had only 10e in it and no overdraft!!!!

aphex™

Diggabot wrote: »

I think thats usually how they do it. I work in retail and we're seeing a huge rise in the amount of duplicate cards being used. They look identical, have the PIN... you'd never know. I'm getting really wary about using my own card these days!

Do the banks not take responsibility for fraud where pin was used?

One Irish bank told me if i can take an imprint of a card that is actually a clone, they will take responsibility. We won't have to pay a penny. They sent us all the imprint machines too. We are moving to pre-authorisation though.

The banks I find are rather clueless and aren't interested in catching the culprits. I've dealt with UK cops and they didn't know where to start.

I've also seen people use up to 15 cards from the one bank. :eek: They were all debit cards from a UK building society. You'd think the bank would have twigged it.

Irish banks should be on the look out for large withdrawals around midnight and contact people in the morning. Again, they don't bother.

Sonic_exyouth

scully74 wrote: »

a friend of mine had his card scammed, they had withdrawn 1200e,in two withdrawals what amazes me is they could withdraw more than his limit on his own card in one go. i.e. his limit is 700e and they took 800e.....how the f**k is that,bank said they didn't know how it was done...... this whole banking stuff is alot less secure than we are lead to believe

something similar happened to me.

was it a withdrawl, or a laser/cc point of sale (POS)

TerrorFirmer

I'm also curious as to how they do this. A girlfriend of mine had an account with no overdraft, but checked her balance one day to find -700 after she was skimmed. How do they get around this?

Sonic_exyouth

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I'm also curious as to how they do this. A girlfriend of mine had an account with no overdraft, but checked her balance one day to find -700 after she was skimmed. How do they get around this?

It's the tolerance on 'Good accounts', apparently.

Something only Banks and Crims seem to even know about.

pred racer

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I'm also curious as to how they do this. A girlfriend of mine had an account with no overdraft, but checked her balance one day to find -700 after she was skimmed. How do they get around this?

I've never had a laser trasaction declined, in fact I rely on it sometimes when broke:) I have no overdraft facility on my a/c (this was true with AIB and now with BOI) costs you a few quid as the interest rates on unauthorised overdrafts are hefty, and there is a charge too but the couple of times ive done it its only been for a couple of hundred for a couple of days.
I've always thought of this as a good thing, maybe not!

Toots

aphex™ wrote: »

I heard they do it at midnight so you can withdraw one amount in one day and the same 30 seconds later

This is true. Generally you'll see one transaction say at 11:58 on 'friday' and then another one at 00:01 on 'saturday', and more often than not a third one at some stage on the sunday. A lot of these frauds are perpetrated on the weekends, some ATM's are offline and don't have access to your actual balance.

You might have €500 in the account on close of business on friday, however transactions done on the weekend don't debit your account til monday morning, so technically, you can withdraw €500 on friday night, €500 on saturday and €500 on Sunday (not a suggestion, just an explanation). The account has to be debited on the monday then, because cash has been received for all these transactions. If it were a cheque presented on an account with insufficient funds, it would be bounced, but this can't be done with an atm card because the 'cardholder' has received the value.

It's the tolerance on 'Good accounts', apparently.

Something only Banks and Crims seem to even know about.

Not true, the reason for this is as I've explained above. There is no 'tolerance' for good accounts when it comes to ATM withdrawals. If the system can see that there is no money in your account, you don't get it.

Back in the days of 'pre approved' credit facilities, I've even seen fraudsters applying for overdraft facilities at the ATM with cloned cards, so they can take even more money.

in fact I rely on it sometimes when broke I have no overdraft facility on my a/c (this was true with AIB and now with BOI) costs you a few quid as the interest rates on unauthorised overdrafts are hefty, and there is a charge too but the couple of times ive done it its only been for a couple of hundred for a couple of days.
I've always thought of this as a good thing, maybe not!

Bad bad bad idea!! While it may not bother you to fork over the few quid, if you ever go looking for a loan/mortgage/credit card and they see that you regularly force credit on your account (the technical term for what you are doing), you will be declined.

Toots

aphex™ wrote: »

Do the banks not take responsibility for fraud where pin was used?

If your card is cloned, then they will (in most cases) reimburse you for any fraudulent spend on your card. If your card is stolen and is used with the pin then they won't cover it, because you have disclosed your pin. Not suggesting that people would tell the crims, but the pin is supposed to be secret and difficult for someone to guess. The amount of muppets who have their pin in their phone, or written down somewhere in their bag and then the bag gets stolen and they're all confused how their pin was discovered. One complete fool I had the pleasure of dealing with had written his pin on the back of his card in tippex. The mind boggles!!!

Another one is having it as your DOB, that's very easily guessed. If your wallet is nicked and there's ID in it, I guarantee the first pin a crim will try is your DOB.

Irish banks should be on the look out for large withdrawals around midnight and contact people in the morning. Again, they don't bother.

While this is a good idea in theory, it would be almost impossible to implement. The manpower alone it would take would mean it would probably be cheaper for the bank to just reimburse the customers who have been skimmed. When you think of dublin alone on a weekend night, they'd literally be making thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of calls, and probably wouldn't get through to a lot of people if they're out in the pub or nightclub.

Also, it would only work for people who are using their own banks ATMs. Say if a BOI customer uses an AIB ATM, BOI won't know until the debits are put through on the monday morning. And due to data protection laws, the banks can't share customer details, so AIB couldn't contact the BOI customer at the time of the transaction.

jimmycrackcorm

NIB send me an sms when amounts over €x are debited. If something unusual happens I'll know about it in the morning.

save_our_socks

Currently someone is running around the states with a clone of my credit card (dont know how that happened!)....so far €500 spent and thats not including the tranactions authorised before my card was cancelled, everyday there seems to be a new transaction popping up :mad:. Fraud squad and bank are looking into it, thank god for internet banking, next statement isnt due for a while, wouldnt have twigged it otherwise! Waiting for a call to confirm that the bank will reimburse the expenditures made on my account....

snappieT

Toots85 wrote: »

If your card is stolen and is used with the pin then they won't cover it, because you have disclosed your pin.

Even though there is a 1 in 3,333 chance that the crim guessed it, given that they get three attempts and there are no more than 9,999 possible PINs.
From a purely statistical basis, when working in a large shop, you get ~3,333 credit cards presented per week. You'll guess one of them correctly - and that's assuming an even distribution of PINs, which is almost certainly not the case.

Toots85 wrote: »

This is true. Generally you'll see one transaction say at 11:58 on 'friday' and then another one at 00:01 on 'saturday'

It really ought to be a rolling 24hour window, not a watershed at midnight.

Toots

snappieT wrote: »

Even though there is a 1 in 3,333 chance that the crim guessed it, given that they get three attempts and there are no more than 9,999 possible PINs.
From a purely statistical basis, when working in a large shop, you get ~3,333 credit cards presented per week. You'll guess one of them correctly - and that's assuming an even distribution of PINs, which is almost certainly not the case.

I've dealt with hundreds of fraud cases and have yet to come across an incident where this is the case. Even if it was, and some per person was just INCREDIBLY unlucky, they'd have a hard job proving it.

It really ought to be a rolling 24hour window, not a watershed at midnight.

AFAIK, there's a lot of work going on (in Ireland) at the moment to have all ATMs/POS terminals 'live' to reduce the occurrence of this type of fraud. Unfortunately, a large number of crims are copping on to this, and are taking cloned cards abroad to do the withdrawals, which makes it even harder to stop because ATM withdrawals done abroad can take up to a week to hit your account, depending on the foreign bank.

Alun

save_our_socks wrote: »

Currently someone is running around the states with a clone of my credit card (dont know how that happened!)....so far €500 spent and thats not including the transactions authorised before my card was cancelled, everyday there seems to be a new transaction popping up :mad:. Fraud squad and bank are looking into it, thank god for internet banking, next statement isnt due for a while, wouldnt have twigged it otherwise! Waiting for a call to confirm that the bank will reimburse the expenditures made on my account....

:eek: Who is your bank?
I have an AIB Gold Visa, and on one occasion last year they detected my card being used on an online poker site at 3am our time, and rang me up at start of business the next day to inquire if it was me or not. Also, as a precaution they had put a temporary block on my card to limit any further misuse. When I said no, they immediately reimbursed the amount (it was only a low amount used as a "tester" before they went in big time, which luckily they were unable to do), cancelled my card and re-issued another one within 2 days.

Most reputable CC companies now have software that alerts them to "unusual" usage patterns like this. I'm surprised yours didn't. There's no excuse to be letting someone loose with your card in that manner for so long like that.

IsThatSo?

Alun wrote: »

:eek: Who is your bank?
I have an AIB Gold Visa, and on one occasion last year they detected my card being used on an online poker site at 3am our time, and rang me up at start of business the next day to inquire if it was me or not. Also, as a precaution they had put a temporary block on my card to limit any further misuse. When I said no, they immediately reimbursed the amount (it was only a low amount used as a "tester" before they went in big time, which luckily they were unable to do), cancelled my card and re-issued another one within 2 days.

Most reputable CC companies now have software that alerts them to "unusual" usage patterns like this. I'm surprised yours didn't. There's no excuse to be letting someone loose with your card in that manner for so long like that.

Agree with this. 2 years ago I was in NY with my mother. She had never been to USA before. The CC company blocked her card (AIB) when they saw the unusual transactions. OK, it was a pain in the a$$ as had to make several phone calls to resolve it, but fair dues to them at the same time. I like the "better safe than sorry" approach, even if its inconvenient at times. They also rang me one time to check that a transaction was valid before they allowed it through.

save_our_socks

Alun wrote: »

:eek: Who is your bank?

TSB. I found it strange too I wasnt contacted, as when I was on holidays in the states in September they range me to confirm I was using my card, fair enough I did hit the thousands with the spending, but I also contacted them prior to going to inform them that I would be using my card excessively. Dont know if being on holiday in the states has something to do with it, but it seems like a long period of time has been taken to use my card if it was cloned when I was over. The bank should be getting back to me this week on whether or not Ill be reimbursed...will be hell to pay if they dont, I find it unbelievable that they cant give me a straight answer yet, they have rung me so they know Im not in another country! If they wont pay I shall be taking my business else where, as this is not the first time I have had problems with my card, In June I recieved a phone call from the Visa dept. explaining for security reasons my card had to be cancelled due to a fraud risk.
I hardly use my card, mainly for booking holidays and around the xmas period and if I am charging huge amounts to it I always have the money put onto my card prior to charging it so I very rarely owe the bank money! So find it strange that they didnt realise this when a couple of hundred dollars were spent in Wall*mart!