Marathon Targets- How do you pick yours

shels4ever

Well other then the big targest such as sub 3 hr or 3:30 how do you come to your target time for your marathon.
I've just been doing a lot of thinking the past few days in regards to my training etc. My initial plan is to get around Belfast but found myself giving woddle some advise that maybe I should have taken myslf. Untill now I've not set any target times for belfast as at the momnet the distance is more of an issue then time. But I think that I will need to set a target over the coming week.

At what stage do most people set out their plan for race day, I can see my progress over the last number of months and have no idea what pace I should run at on the big day. My LSR pace at the moment is about 9:15 pace but this I know will reduce as mostly this is run on grass so i'm talking maybe 15 seconds per mile.

With training and good living I would expect to be about 10kg lighter come race day so this will also add to the increase in pace.

Looking at my training plan and schedule today I see an 8 mile race 3 week prior to the marathon would this be to late to use to decide on a target?

Going on my 5k and 2 mile times from last year its looking like a 3:50/4 hour target. Would it be mad to set a sub 3:40 target? and base the training on that or jsut wait until a few week prior to decide.

Any advise welcome

cheers

Peckham

Bar my first marathon, I've known my targets before even starting training. Personally I'd want to know longer out than 3 weeks, and have confidence in speed/endurance through tempo and PMP runs. 3 weeks beforehand is the start of taper, so doesn't give you much time to build the confidence up.

Is there a race a bit further out you could make a judgment on? Base the judgements for this race on your tempo running, and then revise the marathon target upwards or downwards based on the finish in that race.

shels4ever

Peckham wrote: »

Bar my first marathon, I've known my targets before even starting training. Personally I'd want to know longer out than 3 weeks, and have confidence in speed/endurance through tempo and PMP runs. 3 weeks beforehand is the start of taper, so doesn't give you much time to build the confidence up.

Is there a race a bit further out you could make a judgment on? Base the judgements for this race on your tempo running, and then revise the marathon target upwards or downwards based on the finish in that race.

Well the only other race of distance I can see would be the larne half marathon but not sure i can make that, that would be 6 week prior to belfast other then that it would be 4-5 mile races.

I will run carlingford in 3 week plan was to run this as my first 13+ .

I'll have to look around for another race in maybe 6 week i guess.

911sc

shels4ever wrote: »

Going on my 5k and 2 mile times from last year its looking like a 3:50/4 hour target.

It is hard to guestimate what your marathon time could be based on 5k time.
As you know, there are prediction calculators out there, but it could be way off. It really boils down to how your body cope under stress, depletion of resourses and fatigue.

Don't wait for races to learn about yourself. Try to go for a 13 miler over the weekend and see how you get on.
Bear in mind, that a marathon really starts after mile 20. The last 6 miles are the really hard one IMO.

For Paris on the 05th April, i was thinking of setting a target of 3h45min (5min20sec per km). But at the moment, i found during training that i am comfortable at a pace of 5:40 (4h target), ok-ish at 5:30, but not enjoying myself at 5:20 pace over a long distance (3h45 target).

Amazing how 10sec per km makes such a difference.

Off for a 2h30min run tomorrow morning...

BTW, you should smile on a sunny sunday morning while running in Phoenix Park at noon, even though you were going up Chesterfiled Avenue by the zoo.. I did not beep this time:)

shels4ever

911sc wrote: »

It is hard to guestimate what your marathon time could be based on 5k time.
As you know, there are prediction calculators out there, but it could be way off. It really boils down to how your body cope under stress, depletion of resourses and fatigue.

Don't wait for races to learn about yourself. Try to go for a 13 miler over the weekend and see how you get on.
Bear in mind, that a marathon really starts after mile 20. The last 6 miles are the really hard one IMO.

For Paris on the 05th April, i was thinking of setting a target of 3h45min (5min20sec per km). But at the moment, i found during training that i am comfortable at a pace of 5:40 (4h target), ok-ish at 5:30, but not enjoying myself at 5:20 pace over a long distance (3h45 target).

Amazing how 10sec per km makes such a difference.

Off for a 2h30min run tomorrow morning...

BTW, you should smile on a sunny sunday morning while running in Phoenix Park at noon, even though you were going up Chesterfiled Avenue by the zoo.. I did not beep this time:)

Yep good point this week will be an XC race so may use the Carlingford 1/2marathon as a guide.
You spotted me at a bad point in the run found the park so hard.. Would I have know you if i spotted you ?

Hard Worker

Your marathon training should include a few long runs on the road. You seem to be doing too many runs on grass. That would come to haunt you at 20 miles and you would have a greater chance of "hitting the wall" if you had insufficient runs done on the road.
The 10kg you intend to lose in the next 10 weeks seems quite a lot. Hopefully you took some advice on that.

shels4ever

Hard Worker wrote: »

Your marathon training should include a few long runs on the road. You seem to be doing too many runs on grass. That would come to haunt you at 20 miles and you would have a greater chance of "hitting the wall" if you had insufficient runs done on the road.
The 10kg you intend to lose in the next 10 weeks seems quite a lot. Hopefully you took some advice on that.

Thanks, I've been thinking of the runs on the road v's grass and will increase that as i progress through the training. Would a 20 mile on grass not be harder then a 20 mile on road?

The 10kg is more or a guess then an actuall target .Last few week have been about 1.5 to 2lbs drop but i doubt that will keep up. I'm not going to diet to make weight just healthy living between now and the race and if I'm only 5 kg lighter then thats not a problem.

Hard Worker

shels4ever wrote: »

Would a 20 mile on grass not be harder then a 20 mile on road?

The 20 on grass would be harder and slower than 20 on the road. However, you have to get your joints and muscles used to the harder road surface. I remember Jerry Kiernan used to do a lot of his runs on Leopardstown racecourse and he cramped up in the Dublin Marathon. He learned from it and amended his training and did quite well in Los Angeles Olympics.
Regarding your weight: you seem to be very sensible. No need to diet, just keep eating sensibly. If you do happen to lose a further 5kg, it will make a big difference to how you feel on race day. Because you are still losing weight, it is probably too early to estimate a finishing time. Just carry on training and have a review when you start to taper with about three weeks to go.

another world

Hard Worker wrote: »

The 20 on grass would be harder and slower than 20 on the road. However, you have to get your joints and muscles used to the harder road surface. I remember Jerry Kiernan used to do a lot of his runs on Leopardstown racecourse and he cramped up in the Dublin Marathon. He learned from it and amended his training and did quite well in Los Angeles Olympics.
Regarding your weight: you seem to be very sensible. No need to diet, just keep eating sensibly. If you do happen to lose a further 5kg, it will make a big difference to how you feel on race day. Because you are still losing weight, it is probably too early to estimate a finishing time. Just carry on training and have a review when you start to taper with about three weeks to go.

Really stupid question here, but what do you mean by ´taper´... I´ve seen it around but not really sure what it means

911sc

Have a read at this page

TheRoadRunner

good advice from Hard Worker. Running on grass is great for avoiding injuries but you really do have to hot the road for some of the long runs. I usually try to combine the 2. Maybe do 10 on grass and 10 on the road !

A friend of mine came back from injuries and trained exclusively on grass for Dublin a few years back. He cramped up really bad. So bad that when he lay down both his knees came up to his chest, his hamstrings were as tight as nuns knickers.

Getting back to your original question about picking your marathon target. I think you should pick a time now and run about 10-15 seconds per mile quicker in the Carlingford half. If at the end of it you are ok then that's your target pace. You can adjust upwards or downwards based on how you feel. Very rough guide.

shels4ever

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

good advice from Hard Worker. Running on grass is great for avoiding injuries but you really do have to hot the road for some of the long runs. I usually try to combine the 2. Maybe do 10 on grass and 10 on the road !

A friend of mine came back from injuries and trained exclusively on grass for Dublin a few years back. He cramped up really bad. So bad that when he lay down both his knees came up to his chest, his hamstrings were as tight as nuns knickers.

Getting back to your original question about picking your marathon target. I think you should pick a time now and run about 10-15 seconds per mile quicker in the Carlingford half. If at the end of it you are ok then that's your target pace. You can adjust upwards or downwards based on how you feel. Very rough guide.

Yep seems like a good plan, Last weeks 9 was all on the road and can feel it the day after so will build up ove the weeks.
By the way for Calingford you can enter on the day I had a call from them today.

TheRoadRunner

shels4ever wrote: »

Yep seems like a good plan, Last weeks 9 was all on the road and can feel it the day after so will build up ove the weeks.
By the way for Calingford you can enter on the day I had a call from them today.

Great. I'm 90% I'm going to do it. Did they give you any indication of what the field is like ? Results from last year ?

If the field is sparse I will just use it as a planned marathon pace run but hopefully there will be a couple of lads that we might be able to race against !

shels4ever

They had 200 runners last year and expect more this year, So I don't expect it to be top quality which is ok for, I'd say you would be very close to the front of the field.

Clum

shels4ever wrote: »

Well other then the big targest such as sub 3 hr or 3:30 how do you come to your target time for your marathon.

12 weeks out from a marathon I'll have a target in mind and train to reach that target. The target is set on the level of fitness at that time and how much I realistically think I can improve in 12 weeks.

shels4ever wrote: »

At what stage do most people set out their plan for race day

I gauge my progress by a mid-week run of about 9 to 12 miles which I try to run at planned marathon pace each week.

As you know the legs get very tired during a heavy marathon training schedule so I figure if I can comfortably run one mid-distance run of up to 12 miles, while tired, then I'm all set to go at that pace. If I'm running a bit slower than planned then that's the pace I'll use. This practise has been pretty accurate for my last two marathons.

shels4ever wrote: »

With training and good living I would expect to be about 10kg lighter come race day so this will also add to the increase in pace.

I've a terrible diet at the best of times. Huge fan of fatty foods. I'm not overweight, far from it, but hoped that I'd loose half a stone in the run up to my next marathon through training and strict dieting. I haven't touched fast food, crisps, chocolate, alcohol or any marathon unfriendly grub in 6 weeks and with 4 weeks to go I've lost two pounds!!! I'm running 50+ miles a week and can't see the other 5 pounds dropping off between now and taper. Don't expect to loose the weight.

shels4ever

Clum wrote: »

12 weeks out from a marathon I'll have a target in mind and train to reach that target. The target is set on the level of fitness at that time and how much I realistically think I can improve in 12 weeks.



I gauge my progress by a mid-week run of about 9 to 12 miles which I try to run at planned marathon pace each week.

As you know the legs get very tired during a heavy marathon training schedule so I figure if I can comfortably run one mid-distance run of up to 12 miles, while tired, then I'm all set to go at that pace. If I'm running a bit slower than planned then that's the pace I'll use. This practise has been pretty accurate for my last two marathons.



I've a terrible diet at the best of times. Huge fan of fatty foods. I'm not overweight, far from it, but hoped that I'd loose half a stone in the run up to my next marathon through training and strict dieting. I haven't touched fast food, crisps, chocolate, alcohol or any marathon unfriendly grub in 6 weeks and with 4 weeks to go I've lost two pounds!!! I'm running 50+ miles a week and can't see the other 5 pounds dropping off between now and taper. Don't expect to loose the weight.

Thanks my mid week runs will only be about 8 miles for the next few week but with about 8 weeks to go some of them will increase.

Diet is actually very good at the moment, no alcohol for the last few weeks at all and only planning a couple of nights between now and the marathon.
I guess the starting point with the w weights is the main point if you have 10% body fat you will prob drop very little compared to someone with 30%.

911sc

shels4ever wrote: »

Would I have know you if i spotted you ?

Probably not, but have a look at www.doitforthem.ie for few photos for the next time (though my website needs some maintenance).

mrak

If you don't have a target realistic pace in your head things could get messy.

The mcmillan calculator works amazing for me - pop in my longford 08 half-mar time and it predicts my 800m exactly, 8k and 10k to the second and marathon to 3 seconds!

If you don't have time to run a race another method that is cool for it's weirdness is to run 10x800m with about a 1:30 recovery. The average time in minutes and seconds that you run each 800 will be approx what you will do a marathon in hours and minutes. i.e. if you can do 10x 800m in 3:01 average then you should be able to run 3:01 for a marathon! Like the race calculators, this will only work if you have the work done (i.e. long runs).

Stupid_Private

mrak wrote: »

If you don't have time to run a race another method that is cool for it's weirdness is to run 10x800m with about a 1:30 recovery. The average time in minutes and seconds that you run each 800 will be approx what you will do a marathon in hours and minutes. i.e. if you can do 10x 800m in 3:01 average then you should be able to run 3:01 for a marathon! Like the race calculators, this will only work if you have the work done (i.e. long runs).

Nice, just had a quick swatch at last years training log. There's a session marked back in April as 9 x 800 @ 2:40ish with 75s rest. I'm sure if I had to I'd have been able to push out an extra one if I knew about that guage then.

PAVEMENTPOUNDER

I know it may seem a bit silly to be saying,but everyone seems to be over looking speed training,i was avoiding it for a long time,was just sticking to the long runs,was clocking up not a whole amount,around 40miles a week sence jan and a few races in between,getting ready for connemara,but the thing is,i went back hurling training wed night and it was all sprint work,and i was amazed at how turn off some of my leg muscles were,got on fine speed wise,but suffering with doms every sence,so you might think your doing great running 15mile in such a time,but think what could be achived with some hard speed work,time for a swim.see ye on the road.