Iranian Arms in Gaza

Sofa_King Good

Where were they,? and why weren't they used when Hamas were officially at war with their enemy?

It stands to reason that Hamas would fight back with everything they have got and all they seemed to have were their home-made firework launchers!
How many IDF soliders died?

This is how the cease-fire was broken http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=33024 notice the date Nov 5th

Due to the Rafah crossing blockade the Egyptian/Palestinian tunnels were even more crucial to survival for regular Palestinian people; men, women and children. Vital supplies came through, food, water, medicine, fuel etc yet these were attacked heightening the suffering of the Palestinian people. Yet as far as I can see there is no evidence of any weapons passing through as it seems none were used, only the um qassr rockets.

Maybe they were coming in from Iran by sea?
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129593

Nope. http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=85673&sectionid=351020101
No weapons here either.

If you are looking for arms here is a list of Israeli weapons which I would predict are set to be used in the near future with Netanyahu at the trigger.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=15205

Diogenes

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Where were they,? and why weren't they used when Hamas were officially at war with their enemy?

It stands to reason that Hamas would fight back with everything they have got and all they seemed to have were their home-made firework launchers!
How many IDF soliders died?

This is how the cease-fire was broken http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=33024 notice the date Nov 5th

Due to the Rafah crossing blockade the Egyptian/Palestinian tunnels were even more crucial to survival for regular Palestinian people; men, women and children. Vital supplies came through, food, water, medicine, fuel etc yet these were attacked heightening the suffering of the Palestinian people. Yet as far as I can see there is no evidence of any weapons passing through as it seems none were used, only the um qassr rockets.

Maybe they were coming in from Iran by sea?
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129593

Nope. http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=85673&sectionid=351020101
No weapons here either.

If you are looking for arms here is a list of Israeli weapons which I would predict are set to be used in the near future with Netanyahu at the trigger.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=15205

What you expected Iran to send over elderly MiG and MCBMs? How? Perhaps by baking a cake sticking them inside and writing "Dear Hamas enjoy the Cake PS this is definitely not military hardwire"

Libya supported the IRA during the 80s, why didn't the IRA have jet fighters, because well duh, the logistics of getting and maintaining this hardwire would be impractical. Theres no land link between Iran and Gaza, and weapons are smuggled through small cramped underground tunnels, tunnels that are often targetted by Israeli strikes, the weapons brought in are small arms because they're easily transportable, or do you want to lug several tonnes of tnt through a tiny hole that Israeli is trying to blow up? :rolleyes:

Sofa_King Good

So...IF it was taking place then it was on such a small scale so as to be ineffectual and non threatening then?

blackgold>>

Most of the weapons used in palestine are isreali made.They're smuggled in "turn a blind eye" from isreal! This is a fact.

Sofa_King Good

blackgold>> wrote: »

Most of the weapons used in palestine are isreali made.They're smuggled in "turn a blind eye" from isreal! This is a fact.

Agree 100% as most of the weapons used in Palestine are IDF American Imports used agaisnt the Palestinians.

Blackgold do you mean smuggled by Arabs in Israel? Russian Mafia? Sympathethic Israeli's? Israeli's profiteering? Or perhaps Mossad attempting to partly finance their enemy to give some kind of validity in the 6th most powerful army in the world declaring war on a people?

Diogenes

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=33024[/url] notice the date Nov 5th

Due to the Rafah crossing blockade the Egyptian/Palestinian tunnels were even more crucial to survival for regular Palestinian people; men, women and children. Vital supplies came through, food, water, medicine, fuel etc yet these were attacked heightening the suffering of the Palestinian people. Yet as far as I can see there is no evidence of any weapons passing through as it seems none were used, only the um qassr rockets.

yeah, alternatively

Notably absent are drugs and alcohol, which are forbidden by Hamas; cigarettes, which are heavily taxed by Hamas; and anything even resembling weaponry or military material, which come in through more discreet tunnels far from the public eye that may or may not have been more seriously damaged by the war.

Weapons do come through. Article by Rory Mc Cartney, an irish journalist with the guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/10/gaza-tunnels-israel

Diogenes

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

So...IF it was taking place then it was on such a small scale so as to be ineffectual and non threatening then?

Thats putting words in my mouth. Hypothetically if Hamas had access to dozens of laser guided missiles do you think they'd have used them instead of manually fired rockets.

They were trying to kill Israelis' mixing intention with effectiveness is idiotic.

blackgold>>

Why do hammas exist? They're a solution to a problem. Just like the "other" organisations.
I feel guns and other small arms find there way into palestine quite easily.The main reason being, small arms used on isrealis is like throwing eggs on pancake tuesday......

They have remote control guns "The Seer Shoots", tanks, war planes,and missiles on drones etc etc. It's a great way to make a few bob for the isrealis. And i think it is the isreali business men who sell them the guns. Not arabs!

Not to "megaphone" users "fukc off"! Thank you.

Sofa_King Good

Diogenes wrote: »

yeah, alternatively

No. Not alternatively, simultaneously at best. He mentions they are far from public view and heavily guarded but offers no proof of their existence, just states it as fact.

All that is presented as fact is the transport of day-to-day necessities.

Diogenes wrote: »

Weapons do come through. Article by Rory Mc Cartney, an irish journalist with the guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/10/gaza-tunnels-israel

Potentially an establishment hack. And please don't get offended if he is your friend or something.

blackgold>>

Why you would quote a newspaer which sold many wars is beyond me.

Sofa_King Good

Diogenes wrote: »

Thats putting words in my mouth. Hypothetically if Hamas had access to dozens of laser guided missiles do you think they'd have used them instead of manually fired rockets.

Not necessarily first in a cease-fire.

Diogenes wrote: »

They were trying to kill Israelis' mixing intention with effectiveness is idiotic.

Or a democratically elected government was defending itself in the face of oppression.

No point in arguing this point as I don't think we will ever agree.

How many IDF soliders died in action in Gaza directly from these weapons
?

Diogenes

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Not necessarily first in a cease-fire.



Or a democratically elected government was defending itself in the face of oppression.

No point in arguing this point as I don't think we will ever agree.

How many IDF soliders died in action in Gaza directly from these weapons
?

How the frak is this a conspiracy theory and not just your own very obvious agenda?

Nick_oliveri

^^Im agreeing. There has been a lot of threads here lately that IMHO shouldnt have stayed open. Barack Antichrist, complete with.....images of nothing, Obama red indians (or actual Americans), prediction of nothing threads.... (and my old favorite, Dave chappelle and the NWO, what a glorious thread.)

Rather than start this in feedback i thought id give it a quick mention, i can also see how these threads keep the forum alive but seriously....come on...

Agenda? Yes.... (moi)

Sofa_King Good

Diogenes wrote: »

How the frak is this a conspiracy theory and not just your own very obvious agenda?

The conpiracy theory was the fabrication (my theory, not fact. open to correction) of the extent and implications of weapons smuggling through the tunnels.

What you quoted was a response to your statemetn

My thoughts on it would be that the last thing that Iran wants is a big fat rocket landing in Israel with a big fat "Made in Iran" on it.

I would have thought that Hezbollah had far more Iranian weapons - I've never really heard of Hamas having any large amount of them.

Sofa_King Good

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

The conpiracy theory was the fabrication (my theory, not fact. open to correction) of the extent and implications of weapons smuggling through the tunnels.

What you quoted was a response to your statemetn

I'd be interested if somebody could tell me what my agenda is. I was trying to bring something that came to mind and hadn't been brought up before to my knowledge. If the issue is criticism of Israel could someone please clarify if this is out of bounds, I will accept it.

Nick_oliveri

Its not out of bounds, its just in the wrong forum IMO, during the problems I was all for the Palestinian people (ex Hamas) but starting the thread here seems a bit agenda driven, I think you know why (Zionism talk etc).

Like, they threw WP at the innocent Palestinians, why wouldn't they lie about weapon origins- that there is my political (or otherwise) opinion and TBH it probably doesnt belong in this forum. I could be corrected otherwise though.-Edit not on my statement , my interpretation of a conspiracy.

Motive,????,profit?

mysterious

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

My thoughts on it would be that the last thing that Iran wants is a big fat rocket landing in Israel with a big fat "Made in Iran" on it.

I would have thought that Hezbollah had far more Iranian weapons - I've never really heard of Hamas having any large amount of them.

Iran been mentioned in any case inrelation to this war,

Is like dancing rabbits around the garden, only for the US can get an opportunity to point the blame at the Iranians and take them down.


Israel and the US couldnt get started with Iran, so they create conflict within Israel, hopefully to spark off something of a small scale leading to another one.


Oh and Hamas. what did he get for xmas, guns and roses. On the box says made in America.

I could be a little OT, but ya never know

Sofa_King Good

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Motive,????,profit?

Perhaps it is my understanding of a conspiracy is wrong, that being subversive mostly illegal acts with the intent of achieving a particular aim, my op here falls into that category for me.

Mostly I'd like to apologise if I have caused anyone offence, not my intention whatsoever.

bonkey

I tend to agree that this is the wrong forum for the topic, but I'll wait and see.

I do have one question though...

What the hell does the last line of the OP, about Israeli arms have to do with it?

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

I'd be interested if somebody could tell me what my agenda is.

Well, between this and the other Israeli-mentioning thread you started yesterday, and other comments recently, it does seem like you want to get into a "aren't Israel an awful shower" sort of discussion, or at least hint in that direction in many seperate discussions.

I wouldn't call it an agenda, but to be honest, such a discussion should be for Politics or perhaps Humanities or AH.

Mahatma coat

the Conspiracy is that the ZionistMediais alleging that Iran is arming Gazza, however if ou examine the facts then they simply aint, or if they are they might as well not bother for all thehelp it provides, no one mentions that the Americans are armin the Israelis with lazer guided drone thingys.

because the media (Lizzzard plot BTW) want us tobelieve

Hammas are evil and should not be negotiated with
despite the fact that they are the democraticaly elected Government of Gazza

Evil Hammas Terrorists (note not displaced Refugees) are firing rockets at poor defenceless Israeli SETTLERS

the Israeli settlers are on Land that Israel Stole 'Fair and Square' from the Palestinians.

they have a right to defend their stolen land, the Palestinians have a cheek askin for it back

of course anymention of these things and the lowbrow ProZionist knuckledraggers of theboard will be out decrying you as a Holoaust denier (relevance of which escapes me) or an AntiSemite(and BTW if being an antisemite means I disaprove of how Israel is handling the situation then I will wear that badge)

so yes there is a conspiray here, the conspiracy todeny the facts of the situation and create a spin where the 6th most powerful army in the world is being victimised by kids with pointy sticks

Diogenes

Mahatma coat wrote: »

the Conspiracy is that the ZionistMediais alleging that Iran is arming Gazza, however if ou examine the facts then they simply aint, or if they are they might as well not bother for all thehelp it provides, no one mentions that the Americans are armin the Israelis with lazer guided drone thingys.

Israeli has been the major benefactor for US military aid for most of my lifetime, this is common knowledge.

This is classic CT behaviour believing you have possession of super sekrit info that is in fact wildly known and published.

because the media (Lizzzard plot BTW) want us tobelieve

This facade is pathetic everyone knows you use the word Lizzzards as a euphemism for "jews"

Hammas are evil and should not be negotiated with
despite the fact that they are the democraticaly elected Government of Gazza

You mean the same Hamas both Obama and EU are either opening, or in dialogue with Hamas?

Evil Hammas Terrorists (note not displaced Refugees) are firing rockets at poor defenceless Israeli SETTLERS

Are you actually defending firing indiscriminate rockets at civilian population centers?

the Israeli settlers are on Land that Israel Stole 'Fair and Square' from the Palestinians.

Yes lets boil this down the Israelis' bad, Hamas good.

of course anymention of these things and the lowbrow ProZionist knuckledraggers of theboard will be out decrying you as a Holoaust denier (relevance of which escapes me) or an AntiSemite(and BTW if being an antisemite means I disaprove of how Israel is handling the situation then I will wear that badge)

I'm constantly amazed by one side of this argument trying to boil this down to one side good the other side bad over simplification.

so yes there is a conspiray here, the conspiracy todeny the facts of the situation and create a spin where the 6th most powerful army in the world is being victimised by kids with pointy sticks

Kids with Pointy sticks being a euphemism for an organisation who sends suicide bombers into cafes, and guns down civilians with Ak-47s.

Once again I'm flabbergasted by the logic on display here, neither side has exactly displayed a concern for the other sides civilian population, both have either targeted locations of dubious military importance, or indeed are civilian population centres, but according to some posters here, Israeli are in the wrong and the Palestinians are in the right because Israeli is better armed. And that seems to be the only argument these people make.

Mahatma coat

Q E D

Mahatma coat

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Q E D

That's not QED.
Your point hasn't been demonstrated or proven.
How is it QED?

Mahatma coat

Snap

honestly how are you supposed to deal with the above nonsense? It's a pure ad homien on his part with no attempt to deal with the substance of my post.

re read mypost and you will understand

Mahatma coat

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Snap



re read mypost and you will understand

You realise saying QED and snap doesn't make your points any better right?

Nor does saying "any criticism gets passed off as anti-semetism" invalidate any of the points Diogenes raises.

Diogenes

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Snap



re read mypost and you will understand

I have it still doesn't make any sense, thinking you have a point when two posters clearly have no idea what you are yappering on about isn't really making yourself clear.

A) You've made racists sweeping generalisations about the Jewish race previously.

You made an factually inaccurate statement about how the Western governments are negotiating with Hamas

C) you seem to think it's acceptable to fire deadly weapons at civilians provided they aren't very effect. By that rational you might consider WW1 Zepplin raids, are kosher, while V2 rockets would be objectionable to you.

D) Finally you once again seem to have some weird formula about the size of a countries' military force being equatable to their justification of using force.

Yeah hey QED you like totally pwn'd this one.

Mahatma coat

lets first look at the one line of my post you glossed over without replyin to

me wrote:

they have a right to defend their stolen land, the Palestinians have a cheek askin for it back

well

Mahatma coat

Mahatma coat wrote: »

lets first look at the one line of my post you glossed over without replyin to

they have a right to defend their stolen land, the Palestinians have a cheek askin for it back

well

You mean were Diogenes said it was a gross oversimplification?

But maybe you can actually start by proving that the media is controlled by the jews or the lizards or whatever baseless thing suits.

Edit: Also aren't you a Australian of European descent?

Mahatma coat

I'm Irish born, Livin in Australia

Relevance???????

maybe we could stick to the topc at hand, and discuss that

Mahatma coat

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I'm Irish born, Livin in Australia

Relevance???????

maybe we could stick to the topc at hand, and discuss that

You don't see the comparison?

<irony> Probably too busy stealing land and oppressing the aborigines. <irony>

Mahatma coat

So we're doin Ad Homeinm and Non Sequiturs then?

Mahatma coat

Mahatma coat wrote: »

So we're doin Ad Homeinm and Non Sequiturs then?

So you mean even though you're a white man living in Australia you had no part in or agree with the crimes committed on the Aborigines, such as land-stealing and oppression? Gasp!

Nor do you necessarily agree with the past or present government's policies concerning the Aborigines, such as refusal to apologise and the thing where they took children to live with white parents? Shock!

And it's possible that you might not want the Aborigines launching unguided rockets into you're neighbourhood even though it's quite arguable they've been left with no other choice? Scandal!

You mean that a situation like this (though I can't think of any parallels) isn't black and white and can't be explained as you're either on side or the other? And that an outsider with no stake in the situation, a poor grasp of the history involved and a admitted bias against one side mightn't be able to form a good opinion? <faint>

Mahatma coat

the words I'd pick there are

a(sic) admitted bias against one side

I'm comfortable with my Bias' and opinion.

Black andWhite as you mightsay

Mahatma coat

the words I'd pick there are

a(sic) admitted bias against one side

I'm comfortable with my Bias' and opinion.

Black and White as you mightsay

Mahatma coat

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I'm comfortable with my Bias' and opinion.

Hurrah for racism then!

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Black and White as you mightsay

So if it's black and white, and you support Hama's opinion of reclaiming land. Why don't you and your lot give back the land to the Aborigines and go back where you came from, white boy?

Sofa_King Good

bonkey wrote: »

Well, between this and the other Israeli-mentioning thread you started yesterday, and other comments recently, it does seem like you want to get into a "aren't Israel an awful shower" sort of discussion, or at least hint in that direction in many seperate discussions...

Personally I think that position has been blown out of proportion by the sideshow created everytime Israel is mentioned

The list of Israeli arms was to demonstrate the double standard of the US/Palestine in any arms control issue. Israel got their first nuke through smuggling.

bonkey

Mahatma Coat: the lowbrow ProZionist knuckledraggers of theboard
Diogenes: This facade is pathetic everyone knows you use the word Lizzzards as a euphemism for "jews"
King Mob: <irony> Probably too busy stealing land and oppressing the aborigines. <irony>

Gents - you're all getting a one-week suspension.

I don't care which of you thinks the other is trolling, nor which of you is more or less to blame.

I've had it with this constant bickering.