Unprovoked bullying and ban from mod

lmimmfn

Ill start with the fact that ive always used boards and have the utomst respect for mods and admins and the work you do here and what you have to deal with( ive admin'd my own site, have several thousand post on guru3d, have several thousand ea uk forum posts and have never once recieved a ban, especially on contraversial issues ), however my ban from the thread regarding Eircom shutting off Music sharers is an absolute disgrace
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055474230

A) I highlighted possible ISP knock on effect from the action and got a "dont know what youre talking about post" which was based on the original RTE article which neither said the infraction applies to Eircom as an ISP or those IPS using Eircom as an access network.
Got banned for mentioning TPB which is an absolute disgrace as i use the site constantly for downloading legitimite patches( large BF2 patches ), demos, trailers and game mods

This is the conversation i had with Jor El
<snip>

Thats an absolute disgrace and disgraceful behaviour on Jor els part, yes i know youve had legal proceedings in the past but that doesnt excuse banning anyone with an opinion, especially those of us that work in the broadband industry. If we're not welcome here please say so and and we'll move on, the boards here are great,but not worth that abuse, especially from know it all, self riteous mods, which i probably know.

The ban warning which i later read was several pages before my second posts( 10 pages or so beforehand which is impossible to be aware of ), the rules state a PM warning followed by a ban

I hope it wont come to this but if my behaviour was inexcusable in voicing my opinion, then i would like to be permanently banned from these boards, for the simple fact that im voicing my opinion and have through 10 of thousands of posts on other boards never in my life been banned from any, id perfer to be banned for lack of free speech( when it doesnt even concern legal proceedings ).

Thanks for reading this, and apologies for the hassle, again id prefer a permanent ban than an infraction on my free speech and going around in circles on the matter, and will freely accept admin/mod judgement on the matter

seamus

I've removed the PMs as you do not post a PM conversation without both parties' consent. If jor el is happy for it to be posted, I'll put it back.

I'll have a look at this shortly.

sceptre

It'd help me greatly if you posted a link to your actual post but simply put, that thread is riddled with posts that ended up being deleted due to people posting links to P2P sites, with some users being temp banned as a result.

I fully understand that you use TPB for downloading legitimate patches and so forth but the primary focus of the site isn't legitimate patches and so forth. Whether you agree with the existence of the site or not and whether I agree with the existence of the site or not and what we both use it for is pretty much irrelevant (in other words, I'm not starting a debate on the legitimacy of Irish copyright law, TPB, torrents or P2P in general) - that thread had to be moderated stringently and it was. While as you say, you didn't see the warning, the limitations of vbulletin as a messaging board package mean that this is essentially the only method of making the warning available to potential posters. The forum charter doesn't state that a warning will be provided before a ban, it actually states that there may be a ban.

Sanctions result from the linking to sites like TPB. That's partly because of legal reasons but also because of policy reasons (boards doesn't do warez; obviously neither do you but innocent as it may have been to you, the site you mentioned does). It's got nothing to do with working in the broadband industry or not working in the broadband industry.

I can certainly sympathise but it was a temp ban following an on-thread warning directed at all posters, which expired nine days ago. Your reputation is in no way sullied, most users (and I'm pretty sure it actually is most) have picked up a temp ban from one forum or other here.

I don't think your behaviour was "behaviour was inexcusable", judging by what you've written it was innocently guilty. The no linking to sites that provide illegal content rule is typically enforced as a rulebreak of strict liability. Your reputation is clean, prety much no-one would even know if you hadn't posted this thread. Having posted the thread doesn't make your reputation any less. If I were you, the judgement I'd make would be to accept it as as an unfortunate thing resulting from the usual enforcement of the rule in that way (hence "innocently guilty"), ignore it and get on with things but that's your call.

jor el

First off, I utterly refute the claim that you were bullied by me. I have no problem with publishing what was said in the PM conversation, as none of it was bullying, unprovoked, or anything that I should be ashamed of. In fact, it is you who should be ashamed of your disgraceful and disrespectful behavior. This is the exact conversation we had, via PM. My posts are in Bold, yours are in Italics.

---

Hi lmimmfn,

You have been banned from Broadband for the following duration:

7 Day(s)

for the following reason:

Stop mentioning P2P sites! There have been enough warnings now.

Providing your ban is not permanent, it will be lifted automatically after 7 Day(s). You will get an automatic message informing you that the ban is lifted. If you do not receive this message after the alloted time, please PM a moderator to clarify.
Also, please be aware that an abusive response to this automated message may result in an extension of your ban, or in extreme cases, being banned from the entire site.

Thanks,

Forum Moderator.

---

where exactly did i mention P2P sites more than once? youve a serious chip on your block.

---

There have bee numerous warnings on the thread, anyone mentioning P2P sites by name gets banned. Learn to read, I never said you mentioned them more than once, but once is enough to get you banned.

---

A) I never got a banned warning
Its absolutely ridiculas to get a ban for mention TPB when theyre in the news on legit sites pretty much every week
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02...proof_hosting/
http://torrentfreak.com/the-piratebay-back-home/
http://digg.com/tech_news/Windows_7_...y_The_Register
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/claudin...music_industry
The list goes on and on.
In which case everyone who posts a reference to an article on the TPB should be banned?

Maybe you should learn to read what you write yourself, the reason for ban is:
Stop mentioning P2P sites! There have been enough warnings now.

Youve been arogant and insulting from your first reply to one of my post.

Ive no problem if you dont want discussion on the broadband forum as ive no problem ignoring it in the future. I work in the industry myself so its good to know anyone with an opinion that you disagree with isint welcome and youll bring out the ban stick whenever you feel like it. If thats how the forum is run, then absolutely fair enough ive no interest in posting in such a place

---

That's fairly desperate. Is that the best you could come up with?
You don't have to accept the reason, but you were banned for mentioning a torrent site. Everything else you said is just nonsense.

---

haha, and thats your response, EPIC FAIL on your behalf,lmao, thought you were funny before but that takes the biscuit.

I couldnt give a toss about the reason which is nonsense anyway as is pretty much anything else that comes from your keyboard.

---

The reason for your ban is not nonsense, and if you don't care about it, then why did you reply?

---

quit the childishness, just go ahead and ban my account and be done with this nonsense

---

You're already banned, as I believe I mentioned before.

---

a permanent ban

---

I stopped responding, as I could see no point in continuing. What exactly was a disgrace in what I said? The only bullying and disgraceful behavior there, was from you, when you called me childish, arrogant and insulting, you said everything I said was nonsense, twice, and your opening PM said I have a serious chip on my block, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

If you had PMd me and asked me to review your post and subsequent ban, I might have come back to it and realised that it was somewhat harsh, and may have overturned the ban, as happened with another poster in that thread who mentioned a warez site. You didn't though, and instead chose to attack me in your very first PM. Everything you said after that was a direct attack on me.

id perfer to be banned for lack of free speech( when it doesnt even concern legal proceedings ).

You were not banned for exercising an opinion, or to curtail free speech (which doesn't exist on this site, by the way). You were banned for mentioning a warez site, that was explicitly banned from being mentioned in that thread.

Thanks for reading this, and apologies for the hassle, again id prefer a permanent ban than an infraction on my free speech and going around in circles on the matter

You are also the only person sending this around in circles. Your 1 week ban expired 1 week ago, nobody would be aware, or even care, that you were banned had you not started this thread, which is nothing more than another personal attack on me.

The ban warning which i later read was several pages before my second posts( 10 pages or so beforehand which is impossible to be aware of )

Impossible to be aware of? Is it my fault that you didn't read the thread or the multiple warnings? There were several warnings about mentioning or linking to torrent sites. Some people didn't read these, or chose to ignore them, and their posts were deleted or edited, and the posters infracted or banned. You are not alone in that, you were not singled out in any way, you were given no special treatment, either good or bad. You were treated exactly the same as any other poster.

Ill start with the fact that ive always used boards and have the utomst respect for mods and admins and the work you do here and what you have to deal with

You have shown absolutely no respect for me from the very first PM you sent, following your ban.


At the end of the day, this thread has got nothing to do with the ban, has it? I know exactly why it's here, you're pissed off that I pulled you up on the inaccurate statements you made on the thread. So as everyone can see, here are the posts in question

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802341&postcount=117
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802373&postcount=120
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802535&postcount=125
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802559&postcount=126
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802787&postcount=133
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802866&postcount=134


You said in your second PM to me, that "Youve been arogant and insulting from your first reply to one of my post."
My very first reply to you was post 117 linked to above. How was that arrogant or insulting? Your information was incorrect, and I corrected it so as to remove confusion for other posters. Your original post, #113 in the thread, was completely and utterly wrong.


That is the only reason you started this thread, and I hope that people read this and see what a petty, small minded and vindictive person you are.

I will finish by asking that you post a written apology for calling me arrogant, childish and a bully, and for your unwarranted and unprovoked attack on me and my reputation, in the PMs you sent, and what you said in this thread.

lmimmfn

sceptre & seamus
thanks for your help and understanding, its very very much appreciated, and is extremely refreshing after my experience

i realise the primary focus of TPB isint legitimate patches as its inherent in the name and the original oganisation that it was set up for. However TPB gets a lot of media attention and therefore it shouldnt be a banning offence to mention it for the simple fact that you couldnt even post news on the trial and what not( maybe it should be a sticky that news cant be posted regarding such sites? ), thats still news and deserves attention.

I know the liability issue has existed for boards in the past with MCD, im not aware of what went on in paper but surely abbreviated references to torrent sites( used for legitimate reasons ) shouldnt ban any mention of them in news or in threads( within reason of course )? - ignore this if youd prefer not to comment

No board with any respect ever does warez, yet we could have a good discussion on guru3d about the trial without a ban, in fact its encouraged to contribute views on the argument( without flaming )

My reputation is fine and thats grand, yet the abuse of Jor El's position as mod is what i have a problem with. From the outset a news article was ambiguous yet he replied to my post stating i didnt know what i was on about, its not a moderators position to quote members and say that( obviously it would be on repeat offense ) as its arrogant. You have your rules on moderation as every board does and im fine with that, the dictionary description of "Moderate" is "Being within reasonable limits; not excessive or extreme" and "Not violent or subject to extremes; mild or calm", which is far from my initial and subsequent experience with Jor El, moreso with his last message in his post above considering what has happened

I understand what moderation is and what admin is as ive had my own boards, its a difficult job and i always always respect admins and mods, apart from my first encounter with a mod giving an arrogant response to something i said and continuing that threatment throughout. I have never in my life given grief to a mod or admin unless its provoked and i dont see that route accomplishing anything.

I may be harsh in some of my responses below, but its within the context of the argument thats unfortnately been created. A simple "We disagreed on our interpretation of the article which was ambiguous and could be interpreted in several ways, lets leave it at that shall we?" response would have fixed absolutely everything

jor el wrote: »

First off, I utterly refute the claim that you were bullied by me. I have no problem with publishing what was said in the PM conversation, as none of it was bullying, unprovoked, or anything that I should be ashamed of. In fact, it is you who should be ashamed of your disgraceful and disrespectful behavior. This is the exact conversation we had, via PM. My posts are in Bold, yours are in Italics.

---

Hi lmimmfn,

You have been banned from Broadband for the following duration:

7 Day(s)

for the following reason:

Stop mentioning P2P sites! There have been enough warnings now.

Providing your ban is not permanent, it will be lifted automatically after 7 Day(s). You will get an automatic message informing you that the ban is lifted. If you do not receive this message after the alloted time, please PM a moderator to clarify.
Also, please be aware that an abusive response to this automated message may result in an extension of your ban, or in extreme cases, being banned from the entire site.

Thanks,

Forum Moderator.

---

where exactly did i mention P2P sites more than once? youve a serious chip on your block.

---

There have bee numerous warnings on the thread, anyone mentioning P2P sites by name gets banned. Learn to read, I never said you mentioned them more than once, but once is enough to get you banned.

---

A) I never got a banned warning
Its absolutely ridiculas to get a ban for mention TPB when theyre in the news on legit sites pretty much every week
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02...proof_hosting/
http://torrentfreak.com/the-piratebay-back-home/
http://digg.com/tech_news/Windows_7_...y_The_Register
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/claudin...music_industry
The list goes on and on.
In which case everyone who posts a reference to an article on the TPB should be banned?

Maybe you should learn to read what you write yourself, the reason for ban is:
Stop mentioning P2P sites! There have been enough warnings now.

Youve been arogant and insulting from your first reply to one of my post.

Ive no problem if you dont want discussion on the broadband forum as ive no problem ignoring it in the future. I work in the industry myself so its good to know anyone with an opinion that you disagree with isint welcome and youll bring out the ban stick whenever you feel like it. If thats how the forum is run, then absolutely fair enough ive no interest in posting in such a place

---

That's fairly desperate. Is that the best you could come up with?
You don't have to accept the reason, but you were banned for mentioning a torrent site. Everything else you said is just nonsense.

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haha, and thats your response, EPIC FAIL on your behalf,lmao, thought you were funny before but that takes the biscuit.

I couldnt give a toss about the reason which is nonsense anyway as is pretty much anything else that comes from your keyboard.

---

The reason for your ban is not nonsense, and if you don't care about it, then why did you reply?

---

quit the childishness, just go ahead and ban my account and be done with this nonsense

---

You're already banned, as I believe I mentioned before.

---

a permanent ban

---

I stopped responding, as I could see no point in continuing. What exactly was a disgrace in what I said? The only bullying and disgraceful behavior there, was from you, when you called me childish, arrogant and insulting, you said everything I said was nonsense, twice, and your opening PM said I have a serious chip on my block, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

I completely disagree, you buillied me from our first encounter in my first post in that thread to you banning me and PM'ing me, likewise i stopped responding due to your arrogance from my first post in the thread. Whats an absolute disgrace is:
A: The RTE statement was ambiguous, Eircom is an ISP and an Access provider, the statement never once stipulated that Eircoms access network wasnt involved and thus other ISPs wouldnt be affected, yet your first post was

Please stop giving out such utterly wrong information. You appear to have no idea what's being talked about

B: You banned me for mentioning an abbreviated version of the pirate bay, TPB and your reason below is because its a warez site, it not a warez site its a torrent site( which can be used for illegal purposes and legal purposes, would you ban PCs for the same reason? ) and provides me and many other users with legitimate torrents that we use regularly

jor el wrote: »

If you had PMd me and asked me to review your post and subsequent ban, I might have come back to it and realised that it was somewhat harsh, and may have overturned the ban, as happened with another poster in that thread who mentioned a warez site. You didn't though, and instead chose to attack me in your very first PM. Everything you said after that was a direct attack on me.

Your saying after you jumping down my throat on the thread on numurous occasions and then subsequently banning me for saying TPB in a post that i should effectively beg to have my bn lifted? you've shown both in your first reply to me in the thread and your first and second PMs to me afterwards that you have some problem or whatever with me, theres is absolutely no way i would ever ever in my life ask you to have the ban lifted by you in those circumstances. Its your judgement to ban in the first place, if you consider the action harsh and reverse bans than possibly you should consider bans before enforcing them?

jor el wrote: »

You were not banned for exercising an opinion, or to curtail free speech (which doesn't exist on this site, by the way). You were banned for mentioning a warez site, that was explicitly banned from being mentioned in that thread.

Again, TBP is not and i repeat NOT an illegal site, as you know theyre up in court( still considered legal as its still innocent until proven guilty in Sweden last i checked, as it sould be ), have half the charges dropped on them, but thats not the point, as above there are plenty of us that use it to share legitimate information. TPB is mentioned regularly in news articles, so you'd ban without PM or anything those who post updates on their trial just because they say TPB?
If youre saying theres no such thing as free speech on this site then absolutely no problem, ill go elsewhere to give or request information, and again some of us dont have the time in an absolutely huge thread to go through each page to see if we're going to get banned for mentioning something. I saw that afterwards. I try my best to read threads fully and see whats going on,but that thread is huge and ban threats were impossible to find even if you knew you should be looking for them

jor el wrote: »

You are also the only person sending this around in circles. Your 1 week ban expired 1 week ago, nobody would be aware, or even care, that you were banned had you not started this thread, which is nothing more than another personal attack on me.

Thats absolutely not the point, i dont join and contribute to forums to be banned at a whim on the most ridiculas of reasons. OF course its a personal attack on you as a result of your personal attack on me and invoked by you. Im not going to stand by on a forum that i enjoy and use regularly and have mods jump down my throat, be told i "dont know what im talking about" when i try and reason i get "thats fairly desperate. Is that the best you could come up with?" and a load of other attacks in the thread, not to mention several times i tried to just leave it, agree with you on points that i actually agreed with, then i get banned.

jor el wrote: »

Impossible to be aware of? Is it my fault that you didn't read the thread or the multiple warnings? There were several warnings about mentioning or linking to torrent sites. Some people didn't read these, or chose to ignore them, and their posts were deleted or edited, and the posters infracted or banned. You are not alone in that, you were not singled out in any way, you were given no special treatment, either good or bad. You were treated exactly the same as any other poster.

Is it my fault that i like to post in forums and not read 20+ pages before i do so? As i said above, yes i saw those a week afterwards, and thats fine, i wouldnt have said anything re TPB if i had read everything previously. Based on your quotes of my posts in that thread you give a direct indication that you'd enjoy banning me, and i know for a fact( based on your second PM ) even if i asked you to lift the ban, youd enjoy saying no

It boils down to:
1. The news article was ambiguous
2. I posted and you jumped down my throat, posting that i didnt know what i was talking about and that i was posting wrong information( if its wrong just say whats wronf and leave it that, why the agression? ), not only discrediting my opinion but also discrediting any respect i have here( which may or may not amount to much but thats not the point )
3. I mentioned TPB, you banned me with the generic message, i ask where i mention a P2P site several times( TPB isint P2P in the first place, it hosts the torrents which are P2P enablers ) and that youve a chip on your block since my first post on the thread, you reply stating that ban warnings were issued and "Learn to read, I never said you mentioned them more than once, but once is enough to get you banned." yet the ban messages states P2P sites

jor el wrote: »

You have shown absolutely no respect for me from the very first PM you sent, following your ban.

You earn respect, you showed no respect from your first reply in the thread and my first encounter with you and my and your subsequent replies in the thread afterwards, how does that enable respect from a ban situation when from your first post you threw respect out the window?

jor el wrote: »

At the end of the day, this thread has got nothing to do with the ban, has it? I know exactly why it's here, you're pissed off that I pulled you up on the inaccurate statements you made on the thread. So as everyone can see, here are the posts in question

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802341&postcount=117
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802373&postcount=120
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802535&postcount=125
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802559&postcount=126
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802787&postcount=133
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802866&postcount=134

No thats fantastic that you posted that, its great that the public get to see how we can be treated unfairly by mods, the article was ambiguous, it states "Under the settlement, the record companies will supply Eircom with the internet provider addresses of all persons..........."
That to me reads as ISP address therefore the public( during the time of downloads ) internet ip addresses of the ISPs( because an internet provider is the ISP and its address would be its A, B or C class address range ), you picked it as IP address, i picked it ISP addresses, yet you jump down my throat and enforce your opinion in an arrogant manner when neither of us could ever be 100% correct( due to the ambiguity ) and do so to the extent of a ban because i disagreed with you, when the article does NOT state whether it is either

jor el wrote: »

You said in your second PM to me, that "Youve been arogant and insulting from your first reply to one of my post."
My very first reply to you was post 117 linked to above. How was that arrogant or insulting? Your information was incorrect, and I corrected it so as to remove confusion for other posters. Your original post, #113 in the thread, was completely and utterly wrong.

My information was no more correct or incorrect based on the issued statement, therefore how can you be correct with an ambiguous statement and enforce your opinion. In an ideal world youd have just stated it was ambiguous and would have given the different consequences of the result, but instead you took what you believed to be true( which in retrospect was correct in that it applied only to Eircoms ISP section rather than their Access division whic im 100% fine in agreeing with, but my post was based on the original RTE press release )

jor el wrote: »

That is the only reason you started this thread, and I hope that people read this and see what a petty, small minded and vindictive person you are.

Thats an absolute disgrace for a mod to say in a help/complaints section when theyre the one involved

jor el wrote: »

I will finish by asking that you post a written apology for calling me arrogant, childish and a bully, and for your unwarranted and unprovoked attack on me and my reputation, in the PMs you sent, and what you said in this thread.

Again an absolute disgrace and arrogance ive never experienced in my life of many many years of forum membership. I would prefer a lifetime ban than do any such thing. I removed admins and mods on my own boards for a hell of a lot less. You create your reputation by earning it, if youre totally correct in all of this it should strengthen your reputation, the only way it would attack your reputation is if your actions were wrong, and they were in which case it does affect your reputation and it should.

Again much as id really miss the boards as i consider them excellent, i will not return to contributing while im getting arrogant replies in threads( with no reason and even in threads whose sole purpose is to resolve the issue ) from a mod who then after i complain about get banned by the exact same person asks me to write a written letter of apology???????????

If youre going to keep up the arrogant posts in this thread then one of us should get banned from posting as thats not going to achieve anything

jor el

lmimmfn wrote: »

sceptre & seamus
I completely disagree, you buillied me from our first encounter in my first post in that thread to you banning me and PM'ing me

I didn't start the PMs, you did. The first one you get as a result of being banned.

B: You banned me for mentioning an abbreviated version of the pirate bay, TPB

You may not be aware, but the mods, smods, and admins can see your original unedited post still. It was not an abbreviation, you mentioned the sites full name. The post is this one, for the smods to check. That's why you were banned.

and your reason below is because its a warez site, it not a warez site its a torrent site( which can be used for illegal purposes and legal purposes, would you ban PCs for the same reason? ) and provides me and many other users with legitimate torrents that we use regularly

People were told not to mention that site in that thread, because it relates specifically to copyright material, even though it does not host any such material.

Your saying after you jumping down my throat on the thread on numurous occasions

Where did I do this? You have yet to actually back up any of your lies with facts.

and then subsequently banning me for saying TPB in a post that i should effectively beg to have my bn lifted?

Where and when did I ask you to beg? More lies.

you've shown both in your first reply to me in the thread and your first and second PMs to me afterwards that you have some problem or whatever with me, theres is absolutely no way i would ever ever in my life ask you to have the ban lifted by you in those circumstances.

I have no problem with you, and I still don't see why you believe this to be the case.

Its your judgement to ban in the first place, if you consider the action harsh and reverse bans than possibly you should consider bans before enforcing them?

I'm not infallible, and can make mistakes. I made a judgment that I believed was correct at the time. I was not averse to reconsidering it if I had been asked (not begged). I was not asked, I was abused, so I didn't.

Again, TBP is not and i repeat NOT an illegal site,

It's nothing to do with it being illegal, it's to do with it's content, as you well know.

as a result of your personal attack on me and invoked by you. Im not going to stand by on a forum that i enjoy and use regularly and have mods jump down my throat,

Once again, where did I attack you or jump down your throat?

be told i "dont know what im talking about" when i try and reason i get "thats fairly desperate. Is that the best you could come up with?" and a load of other attacks in the thread, not to mention several times i tried to just leave it, agree with you on points that i actually agreed with, then i get banned.

In that instance, you didn't know what you were talking about. As someone who works in the industry, you should have known better. You also didn't try to leave it nor did you agree with me. I had no problem with you disagreeing with me, and it played no part in your ban.

Is it my fault that i like to post in forums and not read 20+ pages before i do so?

To be perfectly honest, yes. I don't go checking to see if everyone who posts has read all the posts and warnings that went before, but if any subsequent issue is raised in a civil manner, it will be looked into.

As i said above, yes i saw those a week afterwards, and thats fine, i wouldnt have said anything re TPB if i had read everything previously. Based on your quotes of my posts in that thread you give a direct indication that you'd enjoy banning me, and i know for a fact( based on your second PM ) even if i asked you to lift the ban, youd enjoy saying no

So you know what I would have done, do you? More lies. You have absolutely no idea what I would have done. Another user, who's name I will leave out of this but will provide to any smod or admin if required, was banned for a similar reason, apologised for the mistake, and was unbanned.

I posted and you jumped down my throat, posting that i didnt know what i was talking about and that i was posting wrong information( if its wrong just say whats wronf and leave it that, why the agression? )

It was wrong, I said it was wrong, and never jumped down your throat. I asked what you were talking about, and said I was confused as to what you meant, as it made to sense.

not only discrediting my opinion but also discrediting any respect i have here

Your opinion was there to be discredited, due to it's complete inaccuracy and irrelevance and misleading nature in the thread.

3. I mentioned TPB, you banned me with the generic message, i ask where i mention a P2P site several times( TPB isint P2P in the first place, it hosts the torrents which are P2P enablers ) and that youve a chip on your block since my first post on the thread, you reply stating that ban warnings were issued and "Learn to read, I never said you mentioned them more than once, but once is enough to get you banned." yet the ban messages states P2P sites

Back to that again, which is why I asked is that the best you could come up with? Oh no, I pluralised sites, and you only mentioned one. I'm the worst person in the world.

You earn respect, you showed no respect from your first reply in the thread and my first encounter with you and my and your subsequent replies in the thread afterwards, how does that enable respect from a ban situation when from your first post you threw respect out the window?

And the same to you, your posted replies to me, and your PMs to me.

That to me reads as ISP address therefore the public( during the time of downloads ) internet ip addresses of the ISPs( because an internet provider is the ISP and its address would be its A, B or C class address range ), you picked it as IP address, i picked it ISP addresses, yet you jump down my throat and enforce your opinion in an arrogant manner when neither of us could ever be 100% correct( due to the ambiguity )

So you read it wrong, that's still not my problem. To me, it read perfectly well that an agreement between eircom and the music industry would have no impact on the other ISPs, who are completely independent for eircom. They use their own IP space, and any IP addresses collected would be quickly and easily associated with the correct ISP, leaving eircom out of it.

and do so to the extent of a ban because i disagreed with you, when the article does NOT state whether it is either

You were not banned for disagreeing with me, as I said in the PMs, and on this thread.

My information was no more correct or incorrect based on the issued statement, therefore how can you be correct with an ambiguous statement and enforce your opinion. In an ideal world youd have just stated it was ambiguous and would have given the different consequences of the result, but instead you took what you believed to be true( which in retrospect was correct in that it applied only to Eircoms ISP section rather than their Access division whic im 100% fine in agreeing with, but my post was based on the original RTE press release )

I knew that what you posted was wrong, and I knew that what I posted was right. I said no more and no less. My posts were based on more than a single press release.

Thats an absolute disgrace for a mod to say in a help/complaints section when theyre the one involved

Why is it that you are still the only one allowed to express an opinion? You call me arrogant, childish and a bully, and I'm not allowed to refute this? You are quite obviously on an unwarranted personal vendetta against me here.

Again an absolute disgrace and arrogance ive never experienced in my life of many many years of forum membership.

And I've yet to see you explain why you think my comments are disgraceful or arrogant. I fail to see what's wrong with me asking you to apologise for your lies about me.

You create your reputation by earning it, if youre totally correct in all of this it should strengthen your reputation, the only way it would attack your reputation is if your actions were wrong, and they were in which case it does affect your reputation and it should.

Or, as in this case, you are attacking my reputation by posting lies about me, as I've pointed out several times now.

Again much as id really miss the boards as i consider them excellent, i will not return to contributing while im getting arrogant replies in threads( with no reason and even in threads whose sole purpose is to resolve the issue ) from a mod who then after i complain about get banned by the exact same person asks me to write a written letter of apology???????????

I've given my reasons, twice now. Once again, you seem to be saying that only you have the right to post here, and that I should not question you.

If youre going to keep up the arrogant posts in this thread then one of us should get banned from posting as thats not going to achieve anything

If you're going to keep up the arrogant posts in this thread, then one of us should get banned from posting, but that's not really going to achieve anything.

lmimmfn

jor el wrote: »

I didn't start the PMs, you did. The first one you get as a result of being banned.

yes, i know, my PM references were from the first

jor el wrote: »

You may not be aware, but the mods, smods, and admins can see your original unedited post still. It was not an abbreviation, you mentioned the sites full name. The post is this one, for the smods to check. That's why you were banned.

i know that, i have my own boards, my modified post was TPB, end of story

jor el wrote: »

People were told not to mention that site in that thread, because it relates specifically to copyright material, even though it does not host any such material.

There was no explicit mention for that particular site to the best of my knowledge,especially not an abbreviated reference. That site is 100% legal end of story, that may change, but its still 100% legal

jor el wrote: »

Where did I do this? You have yet to actually back up any of your lies with facts.

inference is not lying, the fact exists in your first reply to my post on the thread

jor el wrote: »

Where and when did I ask you to beg? More lies.

Youve already said others had to ask to have the ban lifted as a result of your over zealous behviour on throwing out bans. Your comment on lying = Fail

jor el wrote: »

I have no problem with you, and I still don't see why you believe this to be the case.

I dont know why you even said that, both the original thread and this thred says it all

jor el wrote: »

I'm not infallible, and can make mistakes. I made a judgment that I believed was correct at the time. I was not averse to reconsidering it if I had been asked (not begged). I was not asked, I was abused, so I didn't.

You made a judgement which affects users in the most extreme sense, affects their interest in boards.ie and their interest in contributing. The fact that you reverse those judgements shows a level of indecisiveness. You either do it or you dont, theres no inbetween. Youre not infallible, nobody is, but reversing on judgement shows a lack of understanding of those affected. You were abused as a consequence of replying with an arrogant PM which followed your arrogant original post

jor el wrote: »

It's nothing to do with it being illegal, it's to do with it's content, as you well know.

It has no content, it hosts torrents which i can find via google, yet google has numureous courtcases against it quashed because it finds illegal torrents. TPB is a search engine for torrents, its no different. For those of us that use it for legitimate purposes( because you have to sign up for fileplanet, gamershell or whatever to get retries on html downloads, have a crap net connection, torrents and the likes of TPB are the only choice )im offended by your comment

jor el wrote: »

Once again, where did I attack you or jump down your throat?

its obvious from your reply to my first post in the thread

jor el wrote: »

In that instance, you didn't know what you were talking about. As someone who works in the industry, you should have known better. You also didn't try to leave it nor did you agree with me. I had no problem with you disagreeing with me, and it played no part in your ban.

Again, the press statement was unclear, ive already said it above,i dont see the need to bring it up again or the fact that you were right from day one. You werent, live with it, you decided on an opinion on what it meant, i took another, yet you perceive your opinion to be right and hack everyone who disgrees with you. I know what an isp is and i know what a provider is. The press release was ambigeous and you know it!!!!!!!!!!!
Later i agreed with you on several things because im a techy and im only interested in facts, discussions on press releases and their implications to the industry. I did try to leave it alone, and i agreed with you,as i did in this thread. It all played a part in my ban, for the simple fact that you viewed me negatively and continue to think so

jor el wrote: »

To be perfectly honest, yes. I don't go checking to see if everyone who posts has read all the posts and warnings that went before, but if any subsequent issue is raised in a civil manner, it will be looked into

Well to be perfectly honest NO, a board is not run giving out banning threats in absolutely huge threads and expecting users to read everything and to be aware of the consequences. I would have expected you to have the experience to know this. Then again its down to how you respect your users and how much you value their input on a forum

jor el wrote: »

So you know what I would have done, do you? More lies. You have absolutely no idea what I would have done. Another user, who's name I will leave out of this but will provide to any smod or admin if required, was banned for a similar reason, apologised for the mistake, and was unbanned.

Whats this lies thing you keep harping on about? please see the dictionary definition of lies
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood
i deliberately presented nothing
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression
meant to deceive=no
I gave no wrong impression of you

The other user whatever their circumstances no doubt didnt experience your arrogance from your posts or your issuing of bans. I have no experience with that user, i dont know what their ban reason was and i dnt know why you bring it up when it means absolutely nothing to me

jor el wrote: »

It was wrong, I said it was wrong, and never jumped down your throat. I asked what you were talking about, and said I was confused as to what you meant, as it made to sense.

I disagree completely.

jor el wrote: »

Your opinion was there to be discredited, due to it's complete inaccuracy and irrelevance and misleading nature in the thread.

Neither you nor anyone else can discredit me on any board when im giving an opinion, last i checked opinions werent related to technical facts. You want to argue with me on technical facts then no problem, bring it on.

jor el wrote: »

Back to that again, which is why I asked is that the best you could come up with? Oh no, I pluralised sites, and you only mentioned one. I'm the worst person in the world.

Its a big difference, mention something once, forgivable, several times, not forgiveable. You're arrogance on, "is that the best i can come up with" is wreckless. I recieve an automated message from the ban, at least be aware of your job and what it says

jor el wrote: »

And the same to you, your posted replies to me, and your PMs to me.

Yep, 100% fine with that

jor el wrote: »

So you read it wrong, that's still not my problem. To me, it read perfectly well that an agreement between eircom and the music industry would have no impact on the other ISPs, who are completely independent for eircom. They use their own IP space, and any IP addresses collected would be quickly and easily associated with the correct ISP, leaving eircom out of it.

I never ever ever read it wrong. Why would you assume that eircoms agreement would'nt have a knock on affect? its neither inherent in the original RTE statement or any other, why would you in any way assume you're correct until it was clarified? The other ISPs arent independent in any way of Eircom in the sense that Eircom as an access network can view absolutely anything they want from any of the other ISP's traffic. The traffic flows from their IPDSLAMS accross the network to the ISPs network.

jor el wrote: »

You were not banned for disagreeing with me, as I said in the PMs, and on this thread.

I disagree completely

jor el wrote: »

I knew that what you posted was wrong, and I knew that what I posted was right. I said no more and no less. My posts were based on more than a single press release.

Anyone who uses an ambigeous statement and assumes they're correct and bases an opinion on it is inheriently incorrect in doing so until the facts are clarified. If you had some other input from other releases then why not state so? why be an arrogant know it all? post what you know, contribute to the facts and leave it at that.

jor el wrote: »

Why is it that you are still the only one allowed to express an opinion? You call me arrogant, childish and a bully, and I'm not allowed to refute this? You are quite obviously on an unwarranted personal vendetta against me here.

Nope, the only thing i have against you is your arrogance in posting and banning those that you dislike. Other than that i couldnt care less what you post no more than you would care what i post. Your feeling on why im the 'only one allowed to post an opinion' is derived from the fact that you're completely pissed off that i created this thread and you seem to have an obligation to reply. Im allowed an opinion as a forum member.

You're a moderator, your function is to:
A) Incite people to post and contribute
Help others
C) Correct those who are wrong,in a manner appropriate for a moderator( see my obave post on the dictionary meening of a moderator )
D) Contribute to the forum in a positive manner
E) Encourage people to ign up

Any forum( and im a member of many and have thousands of posts on several ) i contribute to, mods rarely disagree with forum members. They correct them where wrong and provide evidence on doing so not just opinion, if they do disagree its always in a polite manner. They're more respectful of the fact that people are contributing to the forum than trying to alienate folk, if thats your interest then no problem, please say so!!!!

jor el wrote: »

And I've yet to see you explain why you think my comments are disgraceful or arrogant. I fail to see what's wrong with me asking you to apologise for your lies about me.

that is just stupid, youre asking me for a written letter of apology in a thread where im complaining about you and you think thats ok?

jor el wrote: »

Or, as in this case, you are attacking my reputation by posting lies about me, as I've pointed out several times now.

again youre on about me posting lies about you, whats that about? other than inference( based on the fact that i cannot tell what youre thinking at any point in time ). Your angle of me posting lies about you is both lame and childish as i never once posted lies about you. Lies are based on providing evidence that is not factual. I never ever once did so and if i did please highlight that, otherwise please apologie for your attempt at positioning me as a lier.

jor el wrote: »

I've given my reasons, twice now. Once again, you seem to be saying that only you have the right to post here, and that I should not question you.

You're a moderator, act like one, not a flamer and using your ban stick to decide who you should let into your forum. From the moment you became a mod, youve never ever had the priviledges as a regular user because you have to consider your affiliation, always!!!!! know that abide by it and use it!!!!!!

jor el wrote: »

If you're going to keep up the arrogant posts in this thread, then one of us should get banned from posting, but that's not really going to achieve anything.

I dont know why youre posting the exact same thing as i posted, but whatever........... i agree with it.

I will keep posting my disagreement on this matter and will not give up or use boards.ie until the matter is cleared

DeVore

Ok for gods sake stop with the "he said, she said" quotations.

You were banned for linking to a P2P site. which you did by the looks of it. You could have mentioned it by name but not put a link to it?

So, either

1. you didnt understand that linking to p2p sites = ban and accept that for the future or

2. you disagree with that policy and are going to deliberately flaunt it.


You werent banned for voicing your opinion, you were banned for linking to a P2P site, which has been a long standing rule here. Were you aware of that rule?


If you had voiced your opinion thusly: "I think its a disgrace that Eircom is doing this when they advertise on The Pirate Bay themselves" (thats an example, not a quote) then I dont think there would be a problem.

So, is this a "Fight the power" approach or a "I didnt understand / it wasnt clear" complaint?

DeV.

lmimmfn

i never linked to a p2p site, i said "TPB" as you read it here in a post and got banned for that, im aware that no forums allow linking to P2P sites and i never have or would do that and im aware that those were and are the rules here

DeVore wrote: »

If you had voiced your opinion thusly: "I think its a disgrace that Eircom is doing this when they advertise on The Pirate Bay themselves" (thats an example, not a quote) then I dont think there would be a problem.

thats effectively what i said but more like e.g. "I think its a disgrace that Eircom is doing this when they advertise on TPB themselves", which is the reason i created this thread here in the first place

DeVore wrote: »

So, is this a "Fight the power" approach or a "I didnt understand / it wasnt clear" complaint?

DeV.

It doesnt really fit either of those exactly, but "i didnt understand/it wasnt clear" that saying "TPB" exactly like that would get a ban, what it fits is posting your opinion that fits entierly within the forum rules can get a ban

nevermind, i can see the pointlessness of all of this and going around in circles

DeVore

Really?? Thats a pity cos you were convincing me!

I think this may be a mix of misunderstanding on the part of me and some others in this thread that you actually LINKED to them and a mod who might be protecting us too much simply because I havent been clear about what we want prohibited and what we are prepared to stand over.

My personal line would be thus:

1. I dont want links from Boards to P2P sites.

2. I dont want to suppress real meaningful discussion of what is happening.

TPB has been put in the news because of the case against them, so I think its fine to refer to that.

NOW... I will put my hand up and say, we didnt tell the mod in question that. He is doing what he felt we wanted done and is standing in the path of a veritable flood of crap. This is not his fault and laying into him is a bit OTT. He didnt write the first PM, thats automated and I will review that shortly. Let me chat with Jor El and a few people and come to a better "rule". But I owe you an apology for not directing him better and I think you kinda owe him one for jumping down his throat


DeV.

DeVore

Except you did link it.

I just looked through the history of the post and you did link pirate bay, plus you threatened to "absolutely destroy" our moderator.

You lied about linking it and you threatened our mod.

Ban stands, I'm done here.

DeV.

lmimmfn

DeVore wrote: »

Except you did link it.

I just looked through the history of the post and you did link pirate bay, plus you threatened to "absolutely destroy" our moderator.

You lied about linking it and you threatened our mod.

Ban stands, I'm done here.

DeV.

i honestly never ever linked to TPB, absolutely no way would i under any circumstances do that, that remark was only removed as it was too strong. If i ever did( If under any circumstances there was a link there it would only have been there as paste from something else that i posted and changed as soon as i saw it and i would have removed it myself,i cant see the history and i did ask for info on where i did link ), then absolutely no problem and i humbly and sincerely apologise for everything, for wasting peoples time and the ban was 110% justified, case closed

DeVore

Ok, you did link it but hey, I make 100 mistakes a day so I cant talk Thanks for understanding and for having the balls to come here and say that. Not many do. Fair dues.

DeV.
ps: you might not have realised that when you type in an address vB "helpfully" hyperlinks it.

lmimmfn

DeVore wrote: »

Ok, you did link it but hey, I make 100 mistakes a day so I cant talk Thanks for understanding and for having the balls to come here and say that. Not many do. Fair dues.

DeV.
ps: you might not have realised that when you type in an address vB "helpfully" hyperlinks it.

thanks no problem, again i honestly wasnt aware that vB would hyperlink it( i dunno, might be good to add that info for others ) and i apologise to both yourself and jor el for the inconvenience on the matter

jor el

Then we depart, friends (well maybe not friends), but clean slates all round.

lmimmfn

jor el wrote: »

Then we depart, friends (well maybe not friends), but clean slates all round.

cool,cheers,im good with that,well apparently do know a good mate of mine, or maybe you just linked him on your blog - Donncha

jor el

I have a blog???

lmimmfn

jor el wrote: »

I have a blog???

searching around the web you do,but wasnt updated in years, i.e. http://jorel.journals.ie

jor el

Ah, you get one from boards when you become a subscriber. Don't know where those links came from, I think they must auto-populate.

lmimmfn

jor el wrote: »

Ah, you get one from boards when you become a subscriber. Don't know where those links came from, I think they must auto-populate.

ahh right, fair enough, anyways, sorry about the whole affair, my fault, and water under the bridge. Keep up the good work