munster hurling v leinster hurling

Ceann

Does anyone else feel Leinster teams are not given the respect they deserve???

in my view there is nothing between: Dublin, Wexford, Offaly, Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Clare and Galway

Tipp are one step ahead,

and then Kilkenny of course

Daysha

Definitely Kilkennys domination does diminish Leinster to an extent, but if they weren't involved it would certainly be a hugely competitive tournament.

I don't think I'd put Dublin on par with all the other teams just yet though. Sure they've had a great start to the league but they really need to make a mark on the Championship to be taken seriously. A Leinster final and/or an All-Ireland quarter final will be needed to consider it a successful 2009 for them.

Based on last years Championship and the league i'd go with:

Kilkenny
.
.
.
.
Tipperary
.
.
Waterford
Galway/Clare
Limerick/Wexford
Offaly/Dublin
.
.
Cork

Pride Fighter

Galway are in neither province, they are in Connacht.

cruiserweight

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Galway are in neither province, they are in Connacht.

They are playing in the Leinster championship this year, no need to be pedantic

Gingy

Ceann wrote: »

Does anyone else feel Leinster teams are not given the respect they deserve???

in my view there is nothing between: Dublin, Wexford, Offaly, Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Clare and Galway

Tipp are one step ahead,

and then Kilkenny of course

You're dead right. People always talk about the magic of Munster hurling and the pure 'one-sided-ness' of Leinster, but I'm sure that if Limerick, Clare and Waterford were in Leinster, they'd get equal hammerings that Wexford and Offaly get. Sure last year, Offaly beat Limerick, Wexford nearly beat Waterford and Dublin gave Cork a good scare. In the last 17 seasons, Leinster teams have won 11 All-Irelands, compared with just 6 from Munster. Three counties from each province! We don't have the glamour of a packed Thurles in July, but give Leinster hurling a break.

Orizio

Kilkenny were the best team in the country last year, then Cork/Tipp and then their wasn't a huge amount of difference between the rest. Defintely the gap between the likes of Offaly and Clare isn't significant.

Ceann

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Galway are in neither province, they are in Connacht.

That's some good geography, but this forum is about hurling

Ceann

deise59 wrote: »

Definitely Kilkennys domination does diminish Leinster to an extent, but if they weren't involved it would certainly be a hugely competitive tournament.

I don't think I'd put Dublin on par with all the other teams just yet though. Sure they've had a great start to the league but they really need to make a mark on the Championship to be taken seriously. A Leinster final and/or an All-Ireland quarter final will be needed to consider it a successful 2009 for them.

Based on last years Championship and the league i'd go with:

Kilkenny
.
.
.
.
Tipperary
.
.
Waterford
Galway/Clare
Limerick/Wexford
Offaly/Dublin
.
.
Cork

Dublin are getting there, i suppose a few more years
Offaly could push wexford for the number 3 spot in Leinster this year but really need to avoid kilkenny until the Leinster final...Galway will make there presence felt, hopefully wexford, offaly and dublin will have a fair go at them

Pride Fighter

Ceann wrote: »

That's some good geography, but this forum is about hurling

I know, but Galway have never appeared in a Leinster Championship so they should not be talked about IMO. Also if we were to chat about them shouldnt we mention Antrim, who nobody mentioned at all, those who were discussing the 'new' Leinster Champo.

buck65

I think you guys are being too kind to Leinster hurling.
For the past 10 years or so they have excepting Kilkenny been brutal. Remember the hammerings Wexford took from Cork and Clare in Croke park for evidence.
over the past 10 years the following would be my league table for consistency in the Chship
1 Kilkenny 2 Cork 3 Waterford 4 Tipp 5 Clare 6 Limerick 7 Galway 8 Offaly 9 Wexford 10 Dublin.
The loser of the Leinster final is the draw that every team wants in the All Ireland 1/4 final. Let's be honest.

cruiserweight

buck65 wrote: »

I think you guys are being too kind to Leinster hurling.
For the past 10 years or so they have excepting Kilkenny been brutal. Remember the hammerings Wexford took from Cork and Clare in Croke park for evidence.
over the past 10 years the following would be my league table for consistency in the Chship
1 Kilkenny 2 Cork 3 Waterford 4 Tipp 5 Clare 6 Limerick 7 Galway 8 Offaly 9 Wexford 10 Dublin.
The loser of the Leinster final is the draw that every team wants in the All Ireland 1/4 final. Let's be honest.

How about remembering that in the 10 year period (1999-2008) where Wexford got those hammerings off of Cork and Clare, that Wexford made 4 All-Ireland semi finals, beat Waterford, Tipperary and Limerick (when Limerick and Waterford lost in Munster finals) in the qualifiers and took Cork and Tipp to replays.

I think that your table is a bit off there being honest

Amazotheamazing

buck65 wrote: »

I think you guys are being too kind to Leinster hurling.
For the past 10 years or so they have excepting Kilkenny been brutal. Remember the hammerings Wexford took from Cork and Clare in Croke park for evidence.
over the past 10 years the following would be my league table for consistency in the Chship
1 Kilkenny 2 Cork 3 Waterford 4 Tipp 5 Clare 6 Limerick 7 Galway 8 Offaly 9 Wexford 10 Dublin.
The loser of the Leinster final is the draw that every team wants in the All Ireland 1/4 final. Let's be honest.

I'm a Limerick man but you're being way too generous to Limerick in that ranking, we might have a lot of players, but our results in the last 10 years have been desperate. Take out the season we made the All Ireland final and it's dismal viewing.

enda1

The new divisions of the provinces are a bit ridiculus to be honest.
I think its time to bring in all ireland pools with x pools of 4 teams and then quarters/semis/final.

Every team guaranteed 3 matches (or if you have home + away, 6 matches). More fair for those strong counties too where they hardly get the stick in before the later stages.

How many teams are there actually? All 32 counties? NY, London?

IIMII

Or you could try a version of this (Leinster in this refers to the part of the modern provence south of Dublin):


Leath Cuinn (Conn's Half) and Leath Moga (Mugh's half) refers to an ancient division of Ireland.
Leath Cuinn was the island north of the Esker Riada (east-west drumlin belt from Dublin to Galway Bay). Conn Cétchathach, for whom this division is named, was a retrospective ancestor of the Connachta and Uí Néill dynasties.
As a result of the battle of Maigh Nuadad in A.D. 123 where he was defeated by Eoghan Mor (also known as Mug Nuadat, Conn was forced by Mug to accede to the division of Ireland into two halves; the north - taking in Connacht, Ulster and Meath - would be Conn's Half; the south - taking in Munster and Leinster would be Mugh/Mogh's Half. To solidify the arrangement, Conn's daughter Sadbh was married to Oiloill Olum, son of Mogh. The Eoganacht dynasty in Munster claimed, as descendants of Oiloill Olum, the historical right as overkings of Leath Moga (i.e. overlordship of Leinster as well as Munster) in the early medieval age, a claim disputed by the Ui Neill.

jordainius

Hard to pick between Munster and Leinster.

Kilkenny are the best argument both for and against Leinster. Indisputably the countries best team but the Leinster Championship has been utterly awful for years.


Something I would love to see would be a Munster v Leinster game with the teams looking something like this;

Damien Fitzhenry; Michael Kavanagh, Noel Hickey, Jackie Tyrrell; Tommy Walsh, Brian Hogan, JJ Delaney; James Fitzpatrick, Derek Lyng; Eoin Larkin, Henry Shefflin, Martin Comerford; Brian Carroll, Eddie Brennan, Aidan Fogarty.

Brendan Cummins; Damien Reale, Paul Curran, Conor O'Brien; John Gardiner, Conor O'Mahony, Ken McGrath; Donal O'Grady, Shane McGrath; Ben O'Connor,Ollie Moran, Jonathan Clancy; John Mullane, Eoin Kelly(Wat), Eoin Kelly(Tip).


It would be a cracker! And looking at it I still feel that Leinster would have the edge.

Daysha

jordainius wrote: »

Hard to pick between Munster and Leinster.

Kilkenny are the best argument both for and against Leinster. Indisputably the countries best team but the Leinster Championship has been utterly awful for years.


Something I would love to see would be a Munster v Leinster game with the teams looking something like this;

Damien Fitzhenry; Michael Kavanagh, Noel Hickey, Jackie Tyrrell; Tommy Walsh, Brian Hogan, JJ Delaney; James Fitzpatrick, Derek Lyng; Eoin Larkin, Henry Shefflin, Martin Comerford; Brian Carroll, Eddie Brennan, Aidan Fogarty.

Brendan Cummins; Damien Reale, Paul Curran, Conor O'Brien; John Gardiner, Conor O'Mahony, Ken McGrath; Donal O'Grady, Shane McGrath; Ben O'Connor,Ollie Moran, Jonathan Clancy; John Mullane, Eoin Kelly(Wat), Eoin Kelly(Tip).


It would be a cracker! And looking at it I still feel that Leinster would have the edge.

So in other words, Damien Fitzhenry + Kilkenny vs the Rest of Ireland :pac:

Kilkenny would still stroll through the match with a few points to spare.

Erin Go Brath

I think the Leinster teams (minus KK) have been much underrated. Just because Munster is very even doesn't necessarily mean that the teams in it are any better. Kilkenny are of course miles ahead of everybody with only Tipp coming close to challenging them, and even then KK would win by 5 points in September.
A Munster v Leinster game would be interesting. Too close to call, although the Leinster team would have a very black and amber feel to it.

Erin Go Brath

deise59 wrote: »

So in other words, Damien Fitzhenry + Kilkenny vs the Rest of Ireland :pac:

Kilkenny would still stroll through the match with a few points to spare.

A Leinster team picked on talent would probably include the entire Kilkenny team. A token yellow belly or biffo might have to be thrown in for political reasons though.

jordainius

deise59 wrote: »

So in other words, Damien Fitzhenry + Kilkenny vs the Rest of Ireland :pac:

Kilkenny would still stroll through the match with a few points to spare.

Don't forget Brian Carroll, hard and all as it is to spot him in a sea of Kilkenny players!:D I struggled to find other non Kilkenny players to fit in...


Take Kilkenny out of the equation and Munster is without doubt the better province at present, but there are some promising signs. (for Leinster)

Dublin could very well get that monkey off their backs this year regarding beating one of the bigger counties, they have lost games they should have won in recent years (particularly against Wexford) and the signs are promising so far under Dalo.

Offaly played a great game last year v Limerick, a young vibrant team who do all the basics well. I hope they can keep improving. The championship needs them.

Wexford seem to become incontinent at the sight of those black and amber jerseys because they actually acquit themselves quite well elsewhere. They had a good win v Tipp in the quarter finals in 2007 and last year they were unlucky to lose out to the eventual finalists Waterford- that game could easily have gone either way.

Laois? I don't know a lot about them. Seem to be going backwards every year in my opinion. If they keep going at this rate they'll be behind Carlow and Westmeath in years to come.

premierstone

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

A Leinster team picked on talent would probably include the entire Kilkenny team. A token yellow belly or biffo might have to be thrown in for political reasons though.

I for one certainly think Dotsie o'Callaghan is a better hurler than Aidan Fogarty

Erin Go Brath

premierstone wrote: »

I for one certainly think Dotsie o'Callaghan is a better hurler than Aidan Fogarty

Havent seen much of him but ive read good things. I think he needs to lose the effeminite nickname though, sounds like an old lady from eastenders or something. What ever happened to good nicks like the bull or the ox? That Setanta O hAlpin, now he is a good old fashioned hardy lad. :pac:

enda1

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Havent seen much of him but ive read good things. I think he needs to lose the effeminite nickname though, sounds like an old lady from eastenders or something. What ever happened to good nicks like the bull or the ox? That Setanta O hAlpin, now he is a good old fashioned hardy lad. :pac:

Nothin' wrong with the name. Let the hurling talk. Having names like the bull or the ox shows the player (and fans) have their priorities wong. Hurling is a game of finess, skill and speed - not of apes with shticks.

More Cha's and Dotsies for me please.

Pride Fighter

premierstone wrote: »

I for one certainly think Dotsie o'Callaghan is a better hurler than Aidan Fogarty

He was'nt nominated for an all star for nothing. Also add Fallon, Boland, McCrabbe and this new lad the Galway players enjoyed swinging at, Rushe. Dubiln now have 5 players who would make any team in Ireland, even Kilkenny, not the first team but squad certainly. I am very optimistic for the stickmen of the capital this year.

Ceann

jordainius wrote: »

Hard to pick between Munster and Leinster.

Kilkenny are the best argument both for and against Leinster. Indisputably the countries best team but the Leinster Championship has been utterly awful for years.


Something I would love to see would be a Munster v Leinster game with the teams looking something like this;

Damien Fitzhenry; Michael Kavanagh, Noel Hickey, Jackie Tyrrell; Tommy Walsh, Brian Hogan, JJ Delaney; James Fitzpatrick, Derek Lyng; Eoin Larkin, Henry Shefflin, Martin Comerford; Brian Carroll, Eddie Brennan, Aidan Fogarty.

Brendan Cummins; Damien Reale, Paul Curran, Conor O'Brien; John Gardiner, Conor O'Mahony, Ken McGrath; Donal O'Grady, Shane McGrath; Ben O'Connor,Ollie Moran, Jonathan Clancy; John Mullane, Eoin Kelly(Wat), Eoin Kelly(Tip).


It would be a cracker! And looking at it I still feel that Leinster would have the edge.

Maybe Richie Power too:)

corcaioch

Ceann wrote: »

Does anyone else feel Leinster teams are not given the respect they deserve???

in my view there is nothing between: Dublin, Wexford, Offaly, Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Clare and Galway

Tipp are one step ahead,

and then Kilkenny of course

Well, Connacht beat Munster, then Leinster hammered Connacht in Abu Dhabi..so by that logic Leinster hurling can't be too bad. And the Leinster team had a spread of players from Wexford, Offaly and Dublin so there's more than Kilkenny. Offaly's full back Kenny had a great game.

corcaioch

premierstone wrote: »

I for one certainly think Dotsie o'Callaghan is a better hurler than Aidan Fogarty

..and Liam Rushe and Alan McCrabbe are better than Dotsie...on current form at least;)!

Cake Man

Dublin certainly doing well lately, real banana skin of a game for us against them on Sunday and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they win. Some really good young players. Good to see they are coming on in recent years tho, as they improve, the quality of Leinster hurling will improve accordingly.

jordainius

Munster v Leinster in championship 2009

Cork 3-19 -v- Offaly 1-12
Limerick 1-13 -v- Wexford 0-14
Limerick 0-20 -v- Laois 1-14
Limerick 2-18 -v- Dublin 1-17

That's pretty conclusive, and Limerick are considered one of Munster's weaker teams and they have accounted for 3 of the 5 Leinster teams, while Cork had an easy enough win against Offaly.

KevIRL

jordainius wrote: »

Munster v Leinster in championship 2009

Cork 3-19 -v- Offaly 1-12
Limerick 1-13 -v- Wexford 0-14
Limerick 0-20 -v- Laois 1-14
Limerick 2-18 -v- Dublin 1-17

That's pretty conclusive, and Limerick are considered one of Munster's weaker teams and they have accounted for 3 of the 5 Leinster teams, while Cork had an easy enough win against Offaly.

Waterford also beat Galway. But Galway beat Clare and Cork. Galway are in Leinster now remember?

There are 3 Munster teams in All Ireland Semi final and 1 team from Leinster. But to be fair the semi finals could have easily gone the other way and there would be 3 Leinster teams in the semi's.

Now I know if there were 3 Leinster teams in the semi final that a lot of Leinster hurling fans would be bleating that it was evidence of a Munster decline, I however dont think that just because there are 3 Munster teams in the semi finals there are is a huge difference between the 2 provinces.....

Its broken down into groups and the split isnt too big imo

KK are clear of the rest in group 1 (Leinster)

Tipp, Wat, Gal in group 2 with not a huge lot between them (2 Munster 1 Leinster)

Lim and Dub in group 3 (1 Munster 1 Leinster)

Clare, Off, Wex and Cork in group 4 (2 Munster, 2 Leinster)

Laois, Antrim in group 5 (1 Leinster, 1 Munster)

wexican

I'm a little surprised a lot of ye think Cork are on par with Wexford? I for one wouldn't like to see us playing Cork anytime soon. They'd still bate 7 shades of something out of us.

My ranking would be as follows:

KK

Tipp / Galway / Wford

Cork / Lim

Dub / Clare / WX / Offaly

Laois / Antrim

Daysha

Daysha wrote: »

Kilkenny
.
.
.
.
Tipperary
.
.
Waterford
Galway/Clare
Limerick/Wexford
Offaly/Dublin
.
.
Cork

Funny how things can change in a few months eh? Granted that was posted at the time the Cork strike was going on. Now it's more like...

Kilkenny
.
.
Tipperary
.
Galway/Waterford
Limerick
Cork
Dublin
Clare
Offaly
Wexford

joeduggan

Daysha wrote: »

Funny how things can change in a few months eh? Granted that was posted at the time the Cork strike was going on. Now it's more like...

Kilkenny
.
.
Tipperary
.
Galway/Waterford
Limerick
Cork
Dublin
Clare
Offaly
Wexford

u would really put urselves up there with galway? i know you beat them sunday but in my opinion they threw it away.

TheSpecialOne

Killkenny
Tipp
Galway
Waterford
Cork
Limerick/Clare/Dublin/Wexford
Offaly
Laois
Antrim