Bootcamp for 'Hardened Young Criminals'.

Crumble Froo

Wellington - Hardcore teenage criminals in New Zealand will be sent to military-style boot camps under a new law announced by the centre-right government on Monday.

The camps will take the 'most dangerous and recidivist young offenders' aged 14-16 whose persistent offending indicates sees them heading for the adult court system, said the Minister of Youth Affairs Paul Bennett.

'It is the most intensive intervention aimed at helping them get their lives back on track,' she said. 'These sorts of programmes will provide offenders with clear boundaries and teach them about self-discipline, personal responsibility and community values.'

She said the government's Child, Youth and Family department was working with the New Zealand Defence Force to develop a military-style residential programme for the young offenders.

Bennett said 40 teenagers would be sent to a boot camp in the first year.

The announcement came as part of a tough new law being introduced to parliament this week to deal with the country's worst 1,000 youth offenders.

It increases sentences and gives the Youth Court powers to issue a new range of compulsory orders including parenting, mentoring and drug and alcohol rehabilitation programmes.

Prime Minister John Key described the policy as a 'new sentencing toolbox for judges' dealing with the worst young offenders.

'We need to deal more effectively with the growing group of young Kiwis who are seriously and repeatedly breaking the law,' he said. 'These ticking time bombs need to be sent a message that their behaviour will not be tolerated.'

Apparently, all research shows that this doesn't reform the kids, just tends to turn out 'fitter and faster criminals'.

What are your views on this? Personally, I just can't see it as working.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1459665.php/Hardcore_New_Zealand_teen_criminals_to_get_army-style_boot_camps_

luckat

Just watched Song for a Raggy Boy. Very reminiscent.

stovelid

Like all punitive solutions, I'm sure it pleases the media and certain sections of society, but the damage is probably already done re: the children who no doubt mostly come from deprived, abusive or broken homes. I doubt a dollop of retroactive hard labour or Dad's Army play-acting is going to change that.

K4t

'We need to deal more effectively with the growing group of young Kiwis who are seriously and repeatedly breaking the law,' he said. 'These ticking time bombs need to be sent a message that their behaviour will not be tolerated.'

Enroll them in the army and force some discipline on them.

They're not going to be involved in war so you can rule out post traumatic stress. They will be on peace keeping missions and doing aid work. It's the perfect solution.

It's the best way in my opinion. Sending them to St. Pats and then on to Mountjoy etc. achieves absolutely nothing.

mikemac

K4t wrote: »

'
Enroll them in the army and force some discipline on them.

They're not going to be involved in war so you can rule out post traumatic stress. They will be on peace keeping missions and doing aid work. It's the perfect solution.

They might become deaf though

This was proposed before, by Fine Gael of course.
And the idea went nowhere. Worth debating though

johnnyskeleton

Crumble Froo wrote: »

Apparently, all research shows that this doesn't reform the kids, just tends to turn out 'fitter and faster criminals'.

What are your views on this? Personally, I just can't see it as working.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1459665.php/Hardcore_New_Zealand_teen_criminals_to_get_army-style_boot_camps_

Hmm, take hardened young criminals and teach them how to use guns? There is something not quite right about that that I just can't put my finger on.

Phototoxin

So basically teach people with crimnal intentions how to murder and kill and use guns and explosives efficiently ?

We could then let them loose on an island and film it for a Battle Royale sort of Reality TV!

esskay

I'd say it'll end up like most of these measures i.e. ASBO. It'll be a "Mark of Honor", "I'm so hard they send me to bootcamp!", "amn't I cool I've got an ASBO" :rolleyes:

cherrypicker555

Crumble Froo wrote: »

Apparently, all research shows that this doesn't reform the kids, just tends to turn out 'fitter and faster criminals'.

What are your views on this? Personally, I just can't see it as working.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1459665.php/Hardcore_New_Zealand_teen_criminals_to_get_army-style_boot_camps_

Depends on the regime, getting up at 5 am to do drill and PT, sleeping on a thin matress in concrete cell with no heating, no tv etc, v basic food, lights out 9pm and discplined regime to follow has to be more of a deterrent then playsation and tv in your cell and free recreation.

Infact Colchester military prison is still like that everything done on the double, the reward for good behaviour is a radio in your cell for 3 hours a week.....v few ever go back.

But obviously this is only part of the solution.

cherrypicker555

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Hmm, take hardened young criminals and teach them how to use guns? There is something not quite right about that that I just can't put my finger on.

Where does it mention guns ?

Executive Steve

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

Where does it mention guns ?

the bit about sending them to the army

Crumble Froo

i duno if they'd be taught how to use guns (like they don't know already, mind :rolleyes:), they said they were working with the defence forces to develop a programe specifically for the young offenders. can't entirely imagine that involving gun use.

cherrypicker555

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

the bit about sending them to the army

It does not mention guns, it says the army will help run military style boot camps.

petergfiffin

What so often happens here is people look at guys who when they went into the army would have been regarded as "tearaways" but then seem to turn their lives around and think it must have been all the military discipline that did it.

The army gives these guys a lot (for many of them for the first time):

1. A sense of belonging - being part of a team they have to rely on and who rely on you
2. A sense of purpose
3. A meaningful job
4. An education

I don't see these "bootcamps" offering any of the benefits of the army. The money spend on these types of programmes would be better spent getting young guys involved in sports or some other activity that offers them something better than drugs and crime

realismpol

After seeing the attack today on the news by a gang of teenagers on couples in louth i have come to the conclusion that these juvenile delinquents needed to be tried as adults.

A harsh stint in a jail cell with some hardened criminals will teach these little pups to show respect. In saudi arabia, china they seem to have gotten it right. No one dare break the law and certainly youngsters do not run riot attacking and raping other people because they fear the consequences. Having your limbs cut off or worse for commiting crime seems to be very effective in curtailing crimes. We are too leniant on criminals in the west and in ireland its probably the worst where murderers are not even gauranteed 10 years. We have not been paying attention to these thugs. They are out of control and need to be dealt with. Im not for rehabiliting deliquents who purposefully commit and preplan crimes.

Boot camp you say?, No, thats being too kind. A stint in the army? Yes,thats just what we want little thugs running around with machine guns. Why waste money on people who know they are breaking the law and then try and assault or do even worse to people because they know our wimpy justice system will let them off scott free. Once free our neantherthal friends rampage again knowing our justice system will let them off again. Social rehabilitation for what exactly? People who assualt others on the street for no reason, beat up the elderely and murder people for no other reason then they think they can get away with it. Your having a laugh. We should have a law similiar to the 3 strikes and your out law in california. If you commit offenses no matter how petty 3 times then your in jail...for life..

@it kicked out of them for what they do. Theres an old saying that rings true in the case of crime. Prevention is better then cure.

Executive Steve

realismpol wrote: »

. We should have a law similiar to the 3 strikes and your out law in california. If you commit offenses no matter how petty 3 times then your in jail...for life..

yeah - it's working REALLY well over there, isn't it!

realismpol

whats not really working over there? You don't have thugs attacking and assaulting people in public and getting off the hook in california. If they commit crime even if its petty crime like car jacking etc 3 times they get life. Over here they are free to assault and attack people over and over and over again and get away with it.

I think your confusing the issue they have with the free availability of firearms with the criminal justice sentencing they have. The firearms issue is one we don't suffer from over here.