Intuition

bonkey

mysterious wrote: »

never said it was conspiracy

I guess I just had this intuition that you believed it was...

Now days we have so much toxins added to our water, food, tablets and so on, affecting us, and it's not in our control or choice. It's making people ignorant.

That is conspiracy.

Oh look...my intuition has been shown by evidence to be true. I need no longer consider it an assumption, but rather a verified position.

mysterious

bonkey wrote: »

I guess I just had this intuition that you believed it was...

What is your issue with intution.

Intution is the reason why we survived this long. Stop undermining it's advantages. Intution is hard to prove, but doesn't mean it's a weakness.

But hey if you don't use it, don't see why it's any use to you.

Intution has proved me the most startling thing's in my life. I'm glad to have it, otherwise I wouldn't of learnt what I did as a young child. But that's another topic.:)

Oh look...my intuition has been shown by evidence to be true. I need no longer consider it an assumption, but rather a verified position.

What exactly?

bonkey

mysterious wrote: »

What is your issue with intution.

You brought it up...repeatedly....in this thread and others.
You made allegations that people like me weren't using it enough.
You made comments to the effect that it was more important than evidence.

Now you're objecting to me saying that I used intution in the manner I have responded I believe it should be used....to form a hypothesis which one then seeks evidence to support?

Why is it apparently OK for you to complain about others and tell us time and time again about how good your intuitive powers are, and how important intuition is, but when I try and give an example of how I believe intuition should be used, I'm doing something wrong?

Sauce for the goose, mysterious. If you keep bringing up an issue, don't be surprised when its brought up by others.

mysterious

bonkey wrote: »

You brought it up...repeatedly....in this thread and others.
You made allegations that people like me weren't using it enough.
You made comments to the effect that it was more important than evidence.

In fairness you brought up on this thread first.
Yes your right I did say people weren't using it enough. It's one of the main reasons there is alot wrong with the world today. We don't have self awareness or have guts instinct's on anything anymore.

Thirdly. Your false Bonky. I didnt say intution was more important than evidence. I've clearly shown that. I evidence and intution combined is better:)

Now you're objecting to me saying that I used intution in the manner I have responded I believe it should be used....to form a hypothesis which one then seeks evidence to support?

I'm not objecting anything. I just asked you what is wrong with using dicernment. I.e logic and intution to gain awareness and knowledge on certain topics.

No one else seems to have a problem with this.

Why is it apparently OK for you to complain about others and tell us time and time again about how good your intuitive powers are, and how important intuition is, but when I try and give an example of how I believe intuition should be used, I'm doing something wrong?

I'm not complaining.:) I think the above explains my reason's.

I would prefer to dicern using logic and intution. Everyone has different learning styles and techniques. It makes the world a little more interesting.

bonkey

mysterious wrote: »

In fairness you brought up on this thread first.

First mention by mysterious, post 46:

Also mu intution and precognotion abilties are also coming back.

First mention by bonkey, post 48:

I guess I just had this intuition that you believed it was..

Evidence to the rescue again!!!

Thirdly. Your false Bonky. I didnt say intution was more important than evidence.

You said you reach your conclusions using logic and intuition.

I've clearly shown that. I evidence and intution combined is better:)

Lets check the evidence again, shall we:

your original claim:

Combine logic and Intution together to make your conclusion's. This is the way to be.

My response:

I combine logic and intuition to form ideas. I use logic and evidence to reach conclusions.

Your reaction to that:

I like to combine logic, and intution for evidence

No one else seems to have a problem with this.

You seem to be suggesting that it is unacceptable for me to think for myself and take stances that haven't already been voiced by others.

I would prefer to dicern using logic and intution.

See - there you go leaving evidence out of the equation, again.

Everyone has different learning styles and techniques. It makes the world a little more interesting.

It certainly does...and let me say that I believe everyone has the right to choose how they think.

It would be foolish, of course, to believe that these learning styles and techniques are all equal in merit.

Here's my perspective on intution.

Intuition gives you an idea. This is very important. Without ideas, we're a bit stuck. So intuition is vital in terms of giving a line of though to persue....in terms of giving ideas about how a problem might be solved.

The problem is that there's only one way to know whether or not any given inuitition is correct or not...and that's by evidence which shows which it is. I can look at the guy sitting across from me on the train, and my brain tells me (intuitively) that he's a dentist. I can never talk to the guy, never find out anything about him, and then tell people "I saw a dentist on the train today". When they ask me how I know he was a dentist, I can say "Oh, my intuition told me...but I've no actual evidence".

So how do I know he was a dentist? I don't. I have, in actual fact, no idea whether or not he's a dentist. I've just chosen to believe that he is, because that's what my intuition told me.

The only way to know whether or not your intuition was correct or not is when evidence shows whether or not that idea was correct or not.

Thus, my position remains the same. Intuition is essential for ideas. Evidence is essential for conclusions. Intuition is not evidence...no matter what you combine it with.

mysterious

bonkey wrote: »

First mention by mysterious, post 46:

Also mu intution and precognotion abilties are also coming back.

It is. But you brought up the intution as a topic.

as so below

First mention by bonkey, post 48:

I guess I just had this intuition that you believed it was..

Evidence to the rescue again!!!

You said you reach your conclusions using logic and intuition.

Correct.

Combine logic and Intution together to make your conclusion's. This is the way to be.

My response:

I combine logic and intuition to form ideas. I use logic and evidence to reach conclusions.

Your reaction to that:

I like to combine logic, and intution for evidence

Bonky so what are you saying????

You seem to be suggesting that it is unacceptable for me to think for myself and take stances that haven't already been voiced by others.

Suggesting what exactly?

It certainly does...and let me say that I believe everyone has the right to choose how they think.

It would be foolish, of course, to believe that these learning styles and techniques are all equal in merit.

Glad we finally agree on something.

Intuition gives you an idea. This is very important. Without ideas, we're a bit stuck. So intuition is vital in terms of giving a line of though to persue....in terms of giving ideas about how a problem might be solved.

Intution isn't just idea, it's also awareness:rolleyes: intution is the gift to be in touch with the reality around you by your use of feelings, senses, it is not just based on idea rofl.

Ideas come from thoughts. Not intution.

Intution is feeling,

Feeling and thoughts are not the same

The problem is that there's only one way to know whether or not any given inuitition is correct or not...and that's by evidence which shows which it is.

So that would mean, bringing up your intution, for awareness and use logic to back it up.

This is basically what I've been trying to say all along.
Oh well (shrugs shoulder) It strenghtens your intution also. Btw Intution isn't always able to be broken down by logic. Feelings are not always logic, so trust is also required.

I can look at the guy sitting across from me on the train, and my brain tells me (intuitively) that he's a dentist. I can never talk to the guy, never find out anything about him, and then tell people "I saw a dentist on the train today". When they ask me how I know he was a dentist, I can say "Oh, my intuition told me...but I've no actual evidence".

But the truth is intution, it's always hard to prove it, but in alot of cases, intution just knows certain things, for unexplained reason's

Logic will never be able to solve it. The grey areas of life will always be tere. So logic will never be the be all end of life.

So how do I know he was a dentist? I don't. I have, in actual fact, no idea whether or not he's a dentist. I've just chosen to believe that he is, because that's what my intuition told me.

Science and logic has many flaws too,

The mysterious of life including intution is there for a reason, and logic will never be able to understand that. Like the logic of religion, faith and what not.

The only way to know whether or not your intuition was correct or not is when evidence shows whether or not that idea was correct or not.

I dissagree, there are feelings, and feelings are not logical, but the body understands it and holds meaning also. The logic can help, but it is not the only way to gain knowledge or awareness on a posing question:). Anyone with heightened intution wil know exactly what I'm talking about. But Bonkey your right, it can't be proven without evidence, I agree with you. So we will have to leave is as one of the mysterious of our existence.

Thus, my position remains the same. Intuition is essential for ideas. Evidence is essential for conclusions. Intuition is not evidence...no matter what you combine it with.

I never said intution was evidence... Intution is feeling.

Anyway apolgies to all on the off topicness.
I prefer to learn things my way, and you have your way Bonky

bonkey

mysterious wrote: »

Bonky so what are you saying????

You've mentioned intuition in numerous threads now. In many of them, you've been critical of people for not using enough intuition. You've argued that intuition and logic are evidence, and are what you use to reach conclusions.

I've decided to offer a counter-point. I've decided that when you start mentioning intuition, I'll start mentioning evidence. I'll show using evidence that claims you are making are false.

Thus, the reader is presented with two counter-posed positions. One, as represented by yourself, is advocating the use of intuition and degrading the valud of evidence. One, as represented by me, is advocating the use of evidence to verify or discard the ideas that intuition gives us.

I'm hoping that by showing you to be wrong time and time and time again, anyone reading this will be convinced that my position makes more sense. After all, if your approach is the preferable one, how is it that you keep making claims which evidence shows to be false?

Intution isn't always able to be broken down by logic. Feelings are not always logic, so trust is also required.

I've never suggested otherwise. I've suggested that conclusions can only be verified as being true or false by evidence. Intuition - a feeling - that something is true is not a verifiable conclusion.

Put differently, when you claim that intuition has led you to a conclusion, all that you're really saying is "I have a feeling this is true". That's absolutely fine. You can have whatever feelings you like.

When you start telling people that this is how conclusions are reached - by feeling them to be true, rather than by verifying them - that's where I feel the urge to offer a counter-point...showing that evidence is what leads to verification of truth or falsity.

You've made several claims about what you have or haven't said, or what I have or haven't said. I've produced evidence to show that you're wrong. Given that you've proclaimed yourself to have really good intuition and that you make these claims without bothering to provide evidence, all I can assume is that you're making them based on your feeling that they are correct. My evidence, on the other hand, has shown time and time again that they are not.

But the truth is intution, it's always hard to prove it, but in alot of cases, intution just knows certain things, for unexplained reason's

You're again mixing things up. Intuition sometimes provides what turns out to be the correct answer without anyone being able to explain why. However, it is only after evidence shows what the correct answer is that we can say this.

Again...intuition may tell you that the guy sitting opposite you on the train is a dentist. Until you actually find evidence and verify whether or not he is, you've no way of knowing if intuition has given you the right answer or not.

If you discard the notion of evidence-based verification, and instead decide that intuition can lead you to a conclusion, where does that leave you? Well, you intuit that the guy is a dentist. After that, you can conclude he is a dentist because you have the intuition that he was. That you've reached a conclusion that backs up your intuition "shows" how good your intuition is....even if the evidence shows that the guy is a brick-layer.

I never said intution was evidence... Intution is feeling.

Yes. You did. I even quoted it in the post. Here it is again:

I like to combine logic, and intution for evidence

See?

mysterious

bonkey wrote: »

You've mentioned intuition in numerous threads now. In many of them, you've been critical of people for not using enough intuition. You've argued that intuition and logic are evidence, and are what you use to reach conclusions.

I've decided to offer a counter-point. I've decided that when you start mentioning intuition, I'll start mentioning evidence. I'll show using evidence that claims you are making are false.

Thus, the reader is presented with two counter-posed positions. One, as represented by yourself, is advocating the use of intuition and degrading the valud of evidence. One, as represented by me, is advocating the use of evidence to verify or discard the ideas that intuition gives us.

I'm hoping that by showing you to be wrong time and time and time again, anyone reading this will be convinced that my position makes more sense. After all, if your approach is the preferable one, how is it that you keep making claims which evidence shows to be false?

Ok bonkey, you seem to be arguing with yourself in these post's now.

I've cleared up where I felt needed be.

You seem to drag it up again.

When you start telling people that this is how conclusions are reached - by feeling them to be true, rather than by verifying them - that's where I feel the urge to offer a counter-point...showing that evidence is what leads to verification of truth or falsity.

I've already said in my last post I agree with that.

But I also said, logic and science will never prove everything, and it will not always be able to disect intution either.

You've made several claims about what you have or haven't said, or what I have or haven't said.

Ok.

You're again mixing things up. Intuition sometimes provides what turns out to be the correct answer without anyone being able to explain why. However, it is only after evidence shows what the correct answer is that we can say this.

Again I cleared this up in my last post.

Again...intuition may tell you that the guy sitting opposite you on the train is a dentist. Until you actually find evidence and verify whether or not he is, you've no way of knowing if intuition has given you the right answer or not.

I also have agreed with this too.

Yes. You did. I even quoted it in the post. Here it is again:

I like to combine logic, and intution for evidence

See?

Second time repeating. I didnt say intution was evidence

I said i like to use logic and intution combined. Specifically using both, to help me understand what is been shown. Logic is then used for evidence as you've stated. But Intution has given me evidence in many experiences in my life. I can't prove it too, and I've already accepted that it won't.

Can we leave this topic, and create a thread on intution if you feel you need too.

mysterious

For those who think logic is the only and ultimate.

Let me tell you something about logic (as I use logic and intution both equally;)) And someone who understand's both of them equally.


If we as humans, only were to use logic and come to our conclusion with logic.


Then logic, would then come to the final conclusion. And terminate our existence. Logic does not negoiate with the reasoning in keeping a human race alive, when you look at the current state of the planet. There would be no point in keeping this race going. That's if you want to always look at things logically.

The conspiracy to this is. Intution. Intution is creation.
Anyway I will leave you all with these thoughts.

Diogenes

mysterious wrote: »

The conspiracy to this is. Intution. Intution is creation.
Anyway I will leave you all with these thoughts.

Just a thought would you be happen to be put on a trial for capital crime, with a jury who liked to use intuition and favoured it above logic and deductive reason.

What if two or three jurors decided that using their intuition you were guilty, and no argument or rationality or evidence could persuade them, they has their intuition, you are guilty according to that, and must go to jail.

before you say "aha that wouldn't happen" let me remind you

You wrote:

But Intution has given me evidence in many experiences in my life. I can't prove it too, and I've already accepted that it won't.

Might I add to that "Abigail Williams is a Witch!"

bonkey

mysterious wrote: »

For those who think logic is the only and ultimate.

Is there evidence that such people exist, let alone frequent this forum?

If we as humans, only were to use logic and come to our conclusion with logic.

Then logic, would then come to the final conclusion. And terminate our existence.

Lets assume for a moment that you're correct.

This line of argument suggests that we cannot survive using logic alone.

No-one here has suggested that we could or should do so.

What, exactly, is your point?

I have argued that logic and evidence combined should be our tools of choice for reaching conclusions. I have no suggested we use only logic for everything in our lives.

If a mod were to ban you from a forum(say, oh, from Politics) and were to defend their position by saying that they felt you were posting Conspiracy Theories unsuited to the forum....would you object? Would you object that they used intuition (which you have made clear is about "feeling" and not about "assumption", hence my choice of words here) to interpret the evidence (the fact that you posted at all) to reach a conclusion?

Do you agree? Would you object to a moderator banning you based on their feeling about your posts?

If it would be wrong for a mod to ban you based on intuition, then clearly we at least agree that replacing logic and evidence with intuition (with or without evidence) isn't always the right thing to do. So when is it acceptable? When you feel you're right? When the evidence apparently contradicts your conclusions, thus requiring a reinterpretation of the facts, so that you're not wrong? When the stakes are low enough that it doesn't really matter if you're wrong?

Diogenes

mysterious wrote: »

For those who think logic is the only and ultimate.

Let me tell you something about logic (as I use logic and intution both equally;)) And someone who understand's both of them equally.


If we as humans, only were to use logic and come to our conclusion with logic.


Then logic, would then come to the final conclusion. And terminate our existence. Logic does not negoiate with the reasoning in keeping a human race alive, when you look at the current state of the planet. There would be no point in keeping this race going. That's if you want to always look at things logically.

The conspiracy to this is. Intution. Intution is creation.
Anyway I will leave you all with these thoughts.

Firstly would it kill you to learn how to spell intuition? I mean you put so much weight on the concept, would it be too much to trouble you to learn how to spell it.

Secondly your entire argument is just a logical fallacy, we can combat the state of the planet. It's going to be hard. You keep saying you are a survivor and a leader.

bonkey

Diogenes infracted.

This isn't the Spell Czechs forum, nor is it the first time I've had to make this observation.

meglome

bonkey wrote: »

Diogenes infracted.

This isn't the Spell Czechs forum, nor is it the first time I've had to make this observation.

Still though, he places so much weigh on it, it would be no harm if he could spell it.

mysterious

mysterious wrote: »

For those who think logic is the only and ultimate.

Let me tell you something about logic (as I use logic and intution both equally;)) And someone who understand's both of them equally.


If we as humans, only were to use logic and come to our conclusion with logic.


Then logic, would then come to the final conclusion. And terminate our existence. Logic does not negoiate with the reasoning in keeping a human race alive, when you look at the current state of the planet. There would be no point in keeping this race going. That's if you want to always look at things logically.

The conspiracy to this is. Intution. Intution is creation.
Anyway I will leave you all with these thoughts.

My intuition tells me that you are an idiot.

Evidence from your posting on the topic supports that intuition.

Hey, intuition works!

mysterious

Deleted User wrote: »

My intuition tells me that you are an idiot.

Evidence from your posting on the topic supports that intuition.

Hey, intuition works!

Wow, at the level of abuse I'm getting on this thread, after been away.

Sorry I was discussing intuition, give me a break..........:mad:

WakeUp

mysterious wrote: »

Wow, at the level of abuse I'm getting on this thread, after been away.

Sorry I was discussing intuition, give me a break..........:mad:

Mysterious dont mind them m8 your entitled to your opinion, intuition / instinct is very important sometimes you have to trust your gut feeling and do what you feel is right. I dont believe every decision can be made with intuition alone but I believe its important in other ways.

As for that person calling you an "idiot" and people who resort to name calling, well thats just bang out of order and someone should pull them up over it. If they dont agree with you fair enough each to their own and all that, but thats out of line if he doesnt like whats hes reading here he should go away and read something else imo.

bonkey

zaraba banned for abuse.

WakeUp infracted for back-seat modding.