Car crashed into tractor,help!

stevie martina

Okay guys here goes,

A few nights ago I was driving my car down a dark country road with no markings at about 7.30 in the evening. I veered right following the road as carefully as possible doing about 30mph I had just changed into 3rd or 4th gear when a wide tractor came around the bend with his full beams on and absolutely blinding me. They were also at a height where it made it worse if you know what I mean as the were shining more directly at my face. Anyway I naturally applied my brakes but as my car dosent have ABS the steering locked and I ploughed into the side of his tractor ending up on his side of the road,TBH I thought I was a goner! There were a couple driving behind him and they said that they were also blinded by his rear lights. When I spoke to them the said they saw my car careering towards the tractor and were worried for me! (ABS would have avoided this situation) As the impact occured the tractor swerved into the grassy verge to avoid hitting me but I hit him anyway and the front side of my car is wrecked beyond repair. As he veered off his tractor tumbled a bit but then came back up with toppling. We both got out of our vehicles and we were both fine, when I blasted him for having his full beams on he calmly got into his cab and turned them off. We excahnged details and I reported the accident to the guards,Guys I dont know what will happen here but I feel very hard done If this guy gets away with this and I do realise I ended up on his side of the road but that was unavoidable,anyone with any advice?

Berty

From experience and common knowledge Farmers tend not to have tax or insurance BUT failing this(if he does) he cannot drive with his full beams as this is in contravention of the rules of the road and he must have a flashing orange beacon. If he does not have one then he should have the book thrown at him.

Knowing somebody who crashed into a tractor and somebody else who crashed into the farmers cows out for a walk in thick fog being lead by the farmer they will avoid the formalities of the Gardai and courts and will pay you out of pocket.

guil

one question, ya say that the cars behind were blinded by his rear lights, so how did they see ur car carrearin towards the tractor????

MarkR

Did you get the contact details of the people who saw the accident?

peasant

Berty wrote: »

From experience and common knowledge Farmers tend not to have tax or insurance BUT failing this(if he does) he cannot drive with his full beams as this is in contravention of the rules of the road and he must have a flashing orange beacon. If he does not have one then he should have the book thrown at him.

That's an awful lot of assumptions there and not all of them fair. Just because there's a farmer involved doesn't automatically mean that there is no insurance or tax paid. The thingy with the orange beacon as a must have is news to me. Yes, it would make sense, but I seem to remember from previous discussions here that there is a legal question mark over their usage on slow vehicles on this here island.


@ OP

You will have to accept at least some part of the blame. You obviously were going too fast for the conditions (you crashed, didn't you) and possibly also found yourself on the wrong side of the road.

That the tractor was blinding you certainly didn't help, but it will be difficult to prove. With some witness statements the insurance companies may find a 50/50 solution ...then again they may not

stevie martina

guil07 wrote: »

one question, ya say that the cars behind were blinded by his rear lights, so how did they see ur car carrearin towards the tractor????

I will try to explain better as I have left out some details,the witnesses were a couple who were driving behind the tractor,they said they were dazzled by his (presumably) rear fogs, The girl told me the they were looking to overtake and when they made a move the saw me coming toward the tractor so they didnt bother (which is just as well!) They certainly are not taking sides in this,for instance I felt he was on my side of the road,but they say he wasnt it was just his physical size that made it look this way I guess, I felt he was going too fast the say he wasnt but again this is my recollection. I just hope the insurance sort me out but the car is only worh a grand or thereabouts but its a grand I dont really have:(

guil

well that post looks like u were at fault
most tractors can only do 40kms per hour anyway

spideog7

If you just came around the corner then you have to give the guy some time to turn off his full beams, be it a car or a tractor, a tractor moreso cause the lever can be a bit away from your hand.

I'm not sure what the law is on having a second set of lights at the front (if that was the case) that is a set of lights higher up on the cab, although I see this all the time on trucks, 4x4's and alot of cars with spots lower down.

As for being blinded by his lights at the rear that is only an issue if he had fog lights on (unlikely in a tractor to be honest but I'm not familiar with newer tractors) or if he had working lights on at the rear which is illegal. Only red lights can be on at the rear while travelling on the road (and indicators obviously).

From what I've read of it it's sounds like it was just an accident, these things happen. Had you held your ground and kept going you probably would have passed the tractor without hitting him, but since you locked up the brakes you lost control, so just be glad you lived to tell the tale, no need to try and point fingers.

BrianD3

Let's say the tractor didn't blind you with his headlights - when you met the tractor would there have been enough room for the two of you to pass each other?

On narrow country roads everyone should be driving at a speed that allows them to stop in maximum HALF the distance they can see to be clear and should slow/stop when meeting oncoming traffic. Wide vehicles that take up most of the road should be more careful still. IME many aren't. On a couple of occasions I have had to put my wheels into the verge because some redneck in a truck, tractor or school bus was driving far too fast on a country road and didn't even bother slowing down when he met me.

It is very hard to prove blame in collisions such as your one. It sounds as though both of you were moving when the crash occured. Even if one was stationary and the other moving, it would still be hard to prove blame. You'll probably end up settling 50/50. Just be aware that the farmer may try to blame you for any damage to his tractor, new tractors are expensive so even a small mount of damage to a new tractor could be a lot to fix.

galwaytt

guil07 wrote: »

well that post looks like u were at fault
most tractors can only do 40kms per hour anyway

....I've been behind a modern tractor at........75kph - they're not MF135's these days you know.

OP, ring the gaurds. Get them to inspect the tractor, including headlights alignment (this because, I know.....it won't have any !). The issue about the 'rear fogs' is .....illuminating (sic :rolleyes:). I'm sure many of you have noticed that at the top of the cab, at the rear, many tractors have 2, or 4, lights, pointing back - and most of the time, in my experience, they are left on. This is 100% illegal - yet no-one seems to get pulled for it.

So, if you add this into the equation, then it may be possible for a prosecution for driving with undue care and attention - remember, inside the last week a tractor driver got a 12mth ban under this charge, so strike now, whilst the (political/policing) issue is hot.

You may not get full satisfaction, but you may get partial satisfaction.

Oh, and Berty - that comment about farmers/insurance is totally unwarranted - how did the OP and tractor driver exchange details, if there was none to ......exchange ?

seanybiker

30mph isnt much but when you are on a country road with no road markings its a bit much. Surely if he had his full beams on you would have noticing them shining in the ditch. With his lights been higher than yours there should have been a noticeable differance in the brightness .

Steve

Sorry to hear about your accident OP.

It sounds like he had working lights on rather than just high beams. If he was that well lit up as to blind you, how come you didn't see the light looming before he came around the bend?
It's usually a sign that someone is approaching with high beams and it's time to slow down - especially if you don't know the road.
The best thing to do when there is any ambiguity as to whether you can pass is to stop and let the other driver hit you. That way there is no doubt as to whose fault it was (if you're stopped then you can't be blamed for anything).

In this case I would think it was 75% your fault for driving too fast for the conditions (you couldn't stop in time) and 25% the tractors fault for having inappropriate lights on.

matrim

tbh it sounds like you are at fault. You paniched and hit him. By your own admission you crossed the road and hit him despite him pulling into the verge to avoid you. The witnesses said that he was pulled in far enough and not going too fast. The rear lights being on has nothing to do with you as you couldn't see them. So the only possible avenue you have is his high beams and this could have just been related to coming around the corner.

david

You say your car had no ABS so I'm guessing it's old/not worth much. You should have seen him coming if his lights were that bright and slowed down/pulled in. Presuming he was as tight to the ditch as possible and you hit him, I'd say he has a fair case to pursue you for damages (I take it you must've broken something on his tractor and tractor bits wouldn't be cheap). If you do decide to proceed you could find yourself out of pocket very easily.

An online forum is no place to seek this sort of advice. Call your solicitor and get a qualified opinion before you take legislative action. It could open a huge tin of worms for you.

It's tough luck getting your car wrecked but thats the way things are, I feel for you. There's a lot of info in ROTR and Theory Test about how to do emergency stops without anti-lock brakes and how to treat non-dipping oncoming traffic. I know people tend to panic in these situations but we're supposed to know how to deal with them.

My 2c: Provided you won't suffer too much financially as a result and the farmer is happy enough to split liability, I'd advise you to put it down to experience/claim from your insurance if fully comp (we have it for a reason!).

What car did you have?

green-blood

Tractor with full beams on so blinding you couldnt see came around the corner.... so he wasn't lighting up the corner at all??

Driving too fast, paying too little attention, incapable of spotting hazards.... its knock for knock

DubTony

OT here, but my experience is that most tractors aren't actually completely roadworthy. When they don't have rear lights (red) they're happy to leave their rear field (working) lights on and blind cars behind them. From a distance this can look like a vehicle coming toward you until you come up gehind him and have the bejaysus scared out of you, firstly because it looks like a vehicle coming toward you on your side of the road, and secondly, it's probably travelling at a good deal less than half the posted speed limit.

I drive a major N road twice a day, with long straights and many many bends. The section I drive (about 20KM) has no hard shoulder. Tractors are plentiful on this road at all times of the day and night. Last week while driving home at about 9 pm I saw 2 sets of lights coming toward me on a very long straight stretch. As I got closer it looked like the vehicle behind was following a slightly different line on the road, or was much further back than I initially thought. Suddenly I realised that the lights I thought were on the second oncoming vehicle were in fact the field lights (on top of the cab) of a tractor, that was less than 100 metres away and actually in front of the other vehicle. The tractor had no driving lights on and no reflectors of any sort anywhere on the vehicle. On the front of this thing was a contraption used (I believe) for lifting hay bales (8 to 10 spikes of about a metre and a half each). This rig was dropped down and pointing upwards at an angle of about 110 degrees from the ground. There was a trailor being pulled as well, with a JCB type thing on it that hung over the edge of the trailer by about a foot.

This guy was breaking all the rules. No headlights. Driving with his working gear down. Carrying a wide load without giving any indication of doing so. No flashing amber lights (required when carrying a wide load). I called the local Gardai, but the guys attitude led me to believe that there'd be nothing done about this. I see this sort of thing on an almost daily basis. It's going to take deaths before anything serious is done about this type of muppetry. But that's how things are done in this country. If it's not a problem yet, we shouldn't worry about it. :mad:

riverstick

i havnt read all the posts here but just the first five or so. some of ye people just complain over anything. ye complain if tractors have no lights working or if there hardly working. now your complaining that he had too many lights and that there too stong. maby ye people would like farmers just to give up totally and we can all buy brazilian beef with diseases in it or whatever is wrong with it. From what I have read the car driver is wrong. she was obviously going too fast. tractors can only go about 22-25mph-hardly fast. the car driver should always expect the unexpected. You should know your stopping distance. how did you not see all the lights coming or even shining at the corner. You crashed into him/ ended up at his side of the road therefore i would say you are 100% wrong. how much damage did you cause to his tractor. You better hope your well insured yourself.

maidhc

People should be careful driving on "dark country roads". 30mph is probably too fast to go around a corner if there is no obvious room to pass another vehicle.

peasant

riverstick wrote: »

ye complain if tractors have no lights working or if there hardly working. now your complaining that he had too many lights and that there too stong.

And rightly so !

A road going tractor does not get exemption from traffic laws just because it is used in the production of Irish beef

It has to have the same lights (no more, no less) than any other vehicle and all of them in working condition and deployed properly.
Surely that's not too difficult to understand or comply with.

Steve

riverstick wrote: »

i havnt read all the posts here but just the first five or so. some of ye people just complain over anything.

Ironic much?

Rowley Birkin QC

Sounds like it was your fault OP.

Man up and put it down to experience. If he had full beams on you should have seen him coming from a nice distance.

riverstick

well I believe that a little extra light is better than hardly none. as i stated earlier I didnt read all the posts but maby the tractor driver had something wide on the back eg wider than the tractor itself such as a plough or topper or something . How is supposed to see whether it will fit passed a car/ditch unless he does have lights on in the back of the tractor. Also if you were a car coming up behind at least you would have a much better chance of seeing it hence avoiding a crash.

david

riverstick wrote: »

well I believe that a little extra light is better than hardly none. as i stated earlier I didnt read all the posts but maby the tractor driver had something wide on the back eg wider than the tractor itself such as a plough or topper or something . How is supposed to see whether it will fit passed a car/ditch unless he does have lights on in the back of the tractor. Also if you were a car coming up behind at least you would have a much better chance of seeing it hence avoiding a crash.

How's your 12mth ban appeal going?

guil

riverstick wrote: »

Also if you were a car coming up behind at least you would have a much better chance of seeing it hence avoiding a crash.

thats what rear lights are for

peasant

riverstick wrote: »

maby the tractor driver had something wide on the back eg wider than the tractor itself such as a plough or topper or something . How is supposed to see whether it will fit passed a car/ditch unless he does have lights on in the back of the tractor.

That's what the little white and red positioning lights are for. You know, them that should be fixed to all trailers / large implements at night.

stevie martina

Okay guys thanx for your replies,just a little update,

I have just gone down to the crash site this last hour and things sure look different in the cold light of day, Firstly I see that I could not have even got into 3rd gear as I had just pulled onto the road from the main road,I had travelled no more than 30m when I came onto a sharp bend. I know this sounds sketchy but when I wrote the post I was relying on memory,in reality I wasnt going that fast as I simply could not have picked up any speed in that short distance so really it was more like 20 mph. Now to the issue of his blinding lights and not being able to see them, I came around the bend to be blinded by them....there was absoluteley no fore-warning of them until I came around the bend and I simply jammed on ,the tractor was on a straight stretch of road and yes I was the one who hit him,I feel not at fault however as his actions(blinding me) led to my actions (brakes) Again sorry for the slighty wrong detail at the start of the post but this was just because I wasnt entirely sure until I saw the scene. There was no damage atall to his tractor as it was built like a tank and I skidded into him for a small enough distance of about 10m I would think. Wheter or not I claim I can tell you I felt in real danger and his lights were simply way too bright,it seems like a simple case of an unfortunate accident but thats the way it goes ,just life. Glad no-one was hurt though.

riverstick

Just out of curiosity who did the gardai say was in the wrong- you or the tractor driver.

stevie martina

Gaurds were notified but didnt casll to the scene form what I told them they say it will be 50/50,..just what I expected.

riverstick

well at least your car wasnt worth much and the tractor wasnt damaged.

MagicMarker

Sorry OP, it really does sound like your fault.

His beams were blinding, yet you didn't notice them before you turned the corner - doesn't make sense.

According to the witnesses he wasn't on your side of the road, so had you reacted more calmly you would have passed him.

I still can't fathom how you didn't see his lights first.

snowman707

stevie martina wrote: »

Okay guys thanx for your replies,just a little update,

I have just gone down to the crash site this last hour and things sure look different in the cold light of day, Firstly I see that I could not have even got into 3rd gear as I had just pulled onto the road from the main road,I had travelled no more than 30m when I came onto a sharp bend. I know this sounds sketchy but when I wrote the post I was relying on memory,in reality I wasnt going that fast as I simply could not have picked up any speed in that short distance so really it was more like 20 mph. Now to the issue of his blinding lights and not being able to see them, I came around the bend to be blinded by them....there was absoluteley no fore-warning of them until I came around the bend and I simply jammed on ,the tractor was on a straight stretch of road and yes I was the one who hit him,I feel not at fault however as his actions(blinding me) led to my actions (brakes) Again sorry for the slighty wrong detail at the start of the post but this was just because I wasnt entirely sure until I saw the scene. There was no damage atall to his tractor as it was built like a tank and I skidded into him for a small enough distance of about 10m I would think. Wheter or not I claim I can tell you I felt in real danger and his lights were simply way too bright,it seems like a simple case of an unfortunate accident but thats the way it goes ,just life. Glad no-one was hurt though.

"I had travelled no more than 30m"

"I skidded into him for a small enough distance of about 10m I would think".



I think you need to learn how to drive & also maybe buy a set of tyres