Vote on College Green Bus Gate

Jay D

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0212/transport.html

What's your opinion?

Fajitas!

Go for it.

yoyo

If it would speed up the 16/16a service, then yes go for it :pac:

Nick

68 lost souls

This would be a terrible idea. It would cause havoc to traffic everywhere else.

phasers

Maybe just at peak hours,it's a nightmare there at about 9AM with the sheer volume of buses coming and going. Removing cars from say 8-10AM and 4-6PM on weekdays may be good, but any other time is pointless

ODS

phasers wrote: »

Maybe just at peak hours

Exactly my thoughts as well; the problem with Dublin's traffic is commuter through traffic at peak hours - this proposal however threatens to prevent shoppers traffic at all other hours.

By all means clean up College Green and get rid of the junk and visual clutter that detract from some of the finest buildings on the island; but this proposal does not do that - nor does it do anything for Westmorland Street which shamefully continues in neglect, without proper planning enforcement by Dublin City Council. (See Supermacs, Amusement City [owned by the late Liam Lawlor's partner Kennedy], and most recently the refitting of an inappropriate facade on the corner of Fleet Street).

Dublin Bus are supposed to have been preparing a new arrangement of routing their buses, so that not every bus follows the 19th century tram routes to a Pillar that is no longer there. This bus gate idea flies in the face of DB reforming their routes, and hence is premature. The idea of Westmorland Street being turned into a three-lane bus-way is remarkable - it is likely to further degrade what was once of the city's finest streets (laid out by the Wide Streets Commissioners), but alas is already really struggling to survive, with miserably narrow footpaths and a poor quality public domain.

I fear that this bus gate plan may lead to further segregation of the city, as Westmorland Street is likely to become an even less-attractive route for pedestrian interaction between Grafton Street and O'Connell Street; similarly it is likely to constitute a psychological block for day-time car shoppers that may otherwise consider crossing the Liffey.

By all means, commuter cars in this city must be tackled - but this unfairly hits shopping traffic, which vastly exceeds spend-per-head when compared to shoppers that use the Luas and buses. I also note that over 60% of traffic parked up in car parks in Dublin 1 and 2 during weekdays belong to civil servants - this is what should be tackled.

It is an irony that a proposed facility that purports to be for public transport, and ergo environmentally progressive, may actually have the opposite effect in that by disuadeing car-based shoppers from coming into the city centre, they then go to out-of-town malls, which only makes those malls more profitable - and further encourages low density environmentally-unfriendly sprawl. It's a bit like the "free bikes" that ultimately have delivered JC Decaux billboards advertising cars and booze - but damn all bikes.

It is also worth noting that previous traffic calming measures in this area have massively reduced the amount of traffic going via O'Connell Bridge, as north bound car drivers are no longer able to access College Green from either Nassau Street or George's Street; similarly south-bound motorists are no longer able to get onto O'Connell Street from Parnell Square or Abbey Street.

Ultimately if you want to see Westmorland Street become a bus gutter like Marlborough Street and the West Side of Parnell Square, back this proposal.

If on the other hand you would prefer to see the city centre thrive, oppose a full-time bus gate at this point and make your opposition known to the city council and to councillors.

Let's get a better plan instead - one that widens footpaths on Westmorland Street and cleans up College Green, tackles unnecessary car commuting traffic, and a plan that recognizes that the bus routes are in any event being rearranged.

As this stands, it is a bad, bad, bad idea

ollaetta

Well worth a go at least on a trial basis. I clearly remember everyone saying that pedestrianizing Grafton Street wouldn't work because there was nowhere else for the traffic to go! The trial 6 months worked so well that it never went back.

On the subject of the 16/16A, there was a suggestion last year that Dublin Bus might consider changing the route to go via Christchurch, Patrick Street and Clanbrassil Street. This was based on the fact that the existing route between College Green and the South Circular was well served by other bus routes. It would make a hell of a difference to the travel time through town but I can't see them going for it.

Pete2008

I really cannot get my head around this one. All this at a time when the shops are crying out for customers and redundancies are rising in the retail sector by the day they put forward a proposal that will acually take people out of the city centre. I hope common sense prevails and this never see the light of day. Im all for being green and seeing improvements( I even voted for them) but not at the expense of people losing their jobs

PeterHughes

Thinking about the size difference between a bus with 50 passengers v 50 cars with one driver, there is no comparison.

Some people have to get over their snobbery of not taking public transport versus driving there own car to work and maybe restricting access to cars is the only way to get them using public transport. Even if they drive half way and get the bus for the last section....!

Bring on the bus gate

Jip

Can someone logically explain how it's going to make a huge improvement for bus commuters ? For example the vast majority of bus routes end on the side of the city they begin on, i.e. northside buses terminate on the north side, southside on the south. Even those that do go as far as Pearse Street/Hawkins Street from the northside will gain little.

To the poster above, it's nothing to do with snobbery, it's a simple matter of convenience and travel time. When the day comes when I can get a bus from the west of the city to my office in the city centre quicker on a bus than I can by car I'll start using the bus. It aint going to happen and the introduction of a bus gate is not going to speed this up.

PeterHughes

I wouldn't agree that the vast majority of buses terminate on the same side of the city as they start, off the top of my head I can think of plenty that traverse the city, 4, 10, 11, 13, 16, 16A, 19, 19A, 83, 121, 122, 123.

Even the ones that don't, they will still receive the benefits of the Bus Gate.

In relation to travel time, out of the 5 places I have lived around the dublin suburds I have not be able to beat the travel time of a bus by using my own car.

Most recently the bus coming for blanchardstown to city centre (38,39) average travel time between 40 mins and 60 mins. Travel time by car 90mins to 110mins. These times are between 7.30 am and 9am. So I don't agree with your point that using your car saves time.

During those journeys the biggest jams were always hit in the city centre, especially, O'Connell st and D'Olier st - College Green.

Quint

Almost all the traffic there is buses and taxis anyway. A 24 hour ban is mental, fair enough at rush hour, but makes no sense all the time

WindSock

I use that Dame street twice a week to get from work to college, so no, I oppose! :pac: That is the best way to access the south inner city carparks for many people too. I think it's a bad idea.

Jip

PeterHughes wrote: »

I wouldn't agree that the vast majority of buses terminate on the same side of the city as they start, off the top of my head I can think of plenty that traverse the city, 4, 10, 11, 13, 16, 16A, 19, 19A, 83, 121, 122, 123.

Even the ones that don't, they will still receive the benefits of the Bus Gate.

The buses you mention hardly serve the far out suburbs do they ?

And back up your last claim ?

PeterHughes wrote: »

Most recently the bus coming for blanchardstown to city centre (38,39) average travel time between 40 mins and 60 mins. Travel time by car 90mins to 110mins. These times are between 7.30 am and 9am. So I don't agree with your point that using your car saves time.

I hope I never have to share a car with you. and hour and a half to almost 2 hours to get from Blanchardstown ???? I do the same journey every morning and on average it's 40 minutes as far as O'Connell Street.
During the summer it's around 30 minutes.

Quint

Jip wrote: »

Can someone logically explain how it's going to make a huge improvement for bus commuters ?

It won't, but it'll make it more awakward for cars. Seems to me as important as improving the public transport.

Jip wrote: »

To the poster above, it's nothing to do with snobbery, it's a simple matter of convenience and travel time. When the day comes when I can get a bus from the west of the city to my office in the city centre quicker on a bus than I can by car I'll start using the bus. It aint going to happen and the introduction of a bus gate is not going to speed this up.

I live in west dublin too, completely agree. If you have parking, driving is the only way to go. Nearest bus to me is a 15 minute walk and it leaves me about 25 minutes away from the office after a 45 minute bus journey and about 10-15 minutes waiting for it. Or else I can drive it in 25 minutes door to door. I can stop off at the shops on the way home and even go somewhere at lunchtime if needed. The car is yer only man

dats_right

This idea is crazy and nonsensical. Perhaps if the authorities that be were investing rather than cutting investment in public transport and in particular buses it may be a runner but in the absence of investment it is foolish in the extreme. The reality whether we like it or not is that owing to years of underinvestment and neglect of public transport very many people have no alternative but to drive their cars to work, etc. And by clogging up one of the cities main transport arteries it is going to cause chaos as there are few alternative routes and those that exist will be stretched to breaking point. Some joined up thinking is required, but I've been around long enough to know that when it comes to Dublin transport in general it is very much a case of the blind leading the blind..

General Zod

as a cyclist I love this idea, it's so much quicker and safer going through that junction now. Works really well for the rush hours.