Irish Times: A ghostly reminder of dangers to cyclists

flickerx

From today's Irish Times:

The ghost bike idea has been discussed by cycling campaigners for over a year. Some oppose such symbols because they believe it sends out a message that cycling is more dangerous than it is. But it’s clear from the volume of posts on internet discussion boards that there was a groundswell of opinion favouring introducing it to Ireland.

“We have held off on doing this,” says Dr Mike McKillen of the DCC. “While it is a poignant memorial, you do need the permission of the family.” A lecturer in TCD, he attended the funeral of Zu Zhang Wong and received the permission of his parents and his cousin, who lives in Ireland.

“This young Chinese man was thousands of miles from home. At the funeral his poor parents were in bits. Only when you see the grief do you realise how important it is to remind people that a cyclist died there.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2009/0214/1233867936571.html


Well done to all concerned for getting this together, its admirable, it has shown that there is a physical cycling 'community' in the city, rather than disconnected or apathetic commuters, and I am glad that the family were approached first.

penexpers

Would have been better if the DCC weren't involved, I think.

JuliusCaesar

penexpers wrote: »

Would have been better if the DCC weren't involved, I think.

Why wouldn't the Dublin Cycling Campaign be involved?

I went along this morning, partly because this is on my regular cycling route and I had arrived at the scene of the fatality shortly after it happened and saw the mangled bike lying in the middle of the road.

There were only about 8 people there. Although I'm a member of DCC, I didn't get an email about it and only saw it in the paper too. Councillor Mary Freehill (of Dublin City Council - the other DCC), who lives nearby, came along too. And some photographers.

Why wasn't there more publicity in advance for this?

Or are the Ghostbikes supposed to appear mysteriously, like ghosts?

liamo

I set the time and route of my run today to be there and for those who couldn't make it, here's some photos from this morning.

Thomas read a poem which, due to the traffic noise, I couldn't hear but Thomas was visibly moved after reading it and then he said a few more words of his own.

It was a dignified and respectful event and I hope the bike has the desired effect.


Liam

JuliusCaesar

Terenure??? It's Harold's Cross. Thanks for the photos Liam. Didn't see myself in them! (I was the oul wan with a bike helmet)

Thomas read out this poem - Going Downhill on a Bicycle by Beeching.

LDB

It's a nice memorial I think.

Ghost Rider

It's a poignant memorial. Well done to those who organised and got the permission to do it.

Tayto2000

Well done to all involved.

Caroline_ie

I don't mean to spoil the thread but ...

... that lock ... Is that enough?

JuliusCaesar

Caroline_ie wrote: »

I don't mean to spoil the thread but ...

... that lock ... Is that enough?

there are 2 locks. One is hidden behind the flowers.

unionman

It looks good, better than I'd imagined. Well done to all involved.

Slideshowbob

Bravo and absolute fair play to those involved

Hopefully this will help tweek the conscience of the our non-cycling driving fraternity.

More of these would be fitting reminders - what about one for the poor fellow out in Bray a few weeks back?

It looks very good, and is in a perfect place (not blocking anything or anyone from the look of things). Well done everyone.

stuf

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Why wouldn't the Dublin Cycling Campaign be involved?

I went along this morning, partly because this is on my regular cycling route and I had arrived at the scene of the fatality shortly after it happened and saw the mangled bike lying in the middle of the road.

There were only about 8 people there. Although I'm a member of DCC, I didn't get an email about it and only saw it in the paper too. Councillor Mary Freehill (of Dublin City Council - the other DCC), who lives nearby, came along too. And some photographers.

Why wasn't there more publicity in advance for this?

Or are the Ghostbikes supposed to appear mysteriously, like ghosts?

I know you mean well but a more publicised event would have meant bigger crowds and policing - chances are there would have been a certain protest element to the gathering as well. I think it's better to do it quietly - the memorial is there now for people to take from it what they will.

Húrin

I went along just before 11am, and some people were still there. Both me and Jimm went expecting to find some of ye prepared for a spin. But ye weren't, so we went on a little spin ourselves.

Caroline_ie wrote: »

... that lock ... Is that enough?

There are two cable locks, and the bike is so dreadful that nobody would steal it. There's no chain (contrary to the article!), no brakes, and the wheels are welded on also, so they're not going anywhere. I think that main danger is that someone might spray it another colour.

DirkVoodoo

Nice photos Liamo, I hope that the citizens of Dublin will afford this memorial the respect it deserves.

liamo

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Terenure??? It's Harold's Cross..

I was just back from my run so I was probably suffering a lack of oxygen to the brain which brought on an attack of geographical dyslexia or something. Photo set renamed to correct location.

Didn't see myself in them! (I was the oul wan with a bike helmet)

Oops. Sorry about that.

Thomas read out this poem - Going Downhill on a Bicycle by Beeching.

Thanks for that.

liamo

Myth wrote: »

It looks very good, and is in a perfect place (not blocking anything or anyone from the look of things). Well done everyone.

I passed it twice this afternoon in the car and it's quite inconspicuous really. However, if you know what to look for you can see it from quite a way back as you approach the bridge. It's most definitely not in anyone's way and isn't in anyone's face. I wasn't convinced initially about its merits during the initial discussion about whether it should be done but, having seen it, I think it's quite tasteful and fitting.

jimm

I went along just before 11am, and some people were still there. Both me and Jimm went expecting to find some of ye prepared for a spin. But ye weren't, so we went on a little spin ourselves.

Was there at the ceremony this morning. Very dignified, The bike is well located for passing motorists to see, and if it raises awareness among drivers of the vulnerability of cyclists and saves even one life it will be well worth it. I just hope we wont have to see another one anytime soon though I'm not optimistic.

Took some photos on my mobile for a lady (I think she was Italian) she tried to send me her email address but it must have failed as I didnt get it.
Anyone know her ask her to send it again.

Went for a spin with Hurin up to car park at the top of Stocking lane, did you make it to Glencree Hurin?

Húrin

jimm wrote: »

Went for a spin with Hurin up to car park at the top of Stocking lane, did you make it to Glencree Hurin?

No, the road was snowed in only a couple of km after the Cruagh Gap/Featherbeds. So I turned around and went back the way we came. I find the descent down Stocking Lane to be a bit too hair-raising!

Thomas_S_Hunterson

The big logo on it cheapens it somewhat.

Canis Lupus

Sean_K wrote: »

The big logo on it cheapens it somewhat.

Thought the same.

Cabaal

wouldn't a small plaque welded to it about why its there be better then the cheap looking logo?
could still have the web address on it in fairness, otherwise the average joe just sees a white bike and will know nothing else unless they visit the website

blorg

I think the web address helps people understand what the bike is actually about.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

blorg wrote: »

I think the web address helps people understand what the bike is actually about.

I've been thinking about this more and I now believe that the advert is one of the most inexcusably tasteless things I've ever seen. I'd half think of spraying over it.

Even a plaque, if erected, shouldn't mention the website. It's a memorial. This is one step short of selling advertising space on tombstones.

Ryaner

Sean_K wrote: »

I've been thinking about this more and I now believe that the advert is one of the most inexcusably tasteless things I've ever seen. I'd half think of spraying over it.

Even a plague, if erected, shouldn't mention the website. It's a memorial. This is one step short of selling advertising space on tombstones.

ghostbikes.org is non profit so how is it really ad space?

Including a smaller notice would have been better so the council don't remove it thinking it was just someones old bike.

Cabaal

Sean_K wrote: »

I've been thinking about this more and I now believe that the advert is one of the most inexcusably tasteless things I've ever seen. I'd half think of spraying over it.

Even a plague, if erected, shouldn't mention the website. It's a memorial. This is one step short of selling advertising space on tombstones.

except its not the same as advertising as the website is merely about what ghostbikes are about and not a way of making money like standard advertising is....its nothing like selling adspace on tombstones

Thomas_S_Hunterson

I know it's not making money, but common modesty usually precludes this sort of stuff. I find it morally objectionable that a person organising a memorial should look for attention for doing so, irrespective of their cause.

A plaque will more than adequately explain the purpose of the bike. The bikes should be let speak for themselves.

/edit: Something like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/89594685@N00/2577667416

Anything but a feckin url on the frame.

Trojan

Plaque != plague.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Trojan wrote: »

Plaque != plague.

bloody muscle memory, that Q key is so far away

Moreofthatjazz

Fair play to the folks who were involved in setting up the Ghost bike...

Slideshowbob

Sean_K wrote: »

I know it's not making money, but common modesty usually precludes this sort of stuff. I find it morally objectionable that a person organising a memorial should look for attention for doing so, irrespective of their cause.

A plaque will more than adequately explain the purpose of the bike. The bikes should be let speak for themselves.

/edit: Something like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/89594685@N00/2577667416

Anything but a feckin url on the frame.

Sean

U are not really getting the point

All your emotions regarding the url pasted on the bike etc could apply equally to cyclists opinion of careless motorists (I am not implying here that the motorist was careless in this particular case). If there was no ghostbikes.org perhaps this monument would never have arisen and another death would go by with less notice. There has to be some give and take. It's not a commercial enterprise - it's a means of saving cyclists lives in the future. Well done again to all those involved.

Infact without the website reference, this monument could be insignificant to a passer by, at least with the url, it let's drivers etc go and research it and enlighten themselves

TinyExplosions

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Sean

U are not really getting the point

All your emotions regarding the url pasted on the bike etc could apply equally to cyclists opinion of careless motorists (I am not implying here that the motorist was careless in this particular case). If there was no ghostbikes.org perhaps this monument would never have arisen and another death would go by with less notice. There has to be some give and take. It's not a commercial enterprise - it's a means of saving cyclists lives in the future. Well done again to all those involved.

Without wanting to put words in his mouth, I think the problem is with the size and placement of the url, and I can see where he's coming from. A small plaque with the URL on would get the same point across, but there's the risk that this monument could be seen simply as a promotion of a website

Slideshowbob

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Without wanting to put words in his mouth, I think the problem is with the size and placement of the url, and I can see where he's coming from. A small plaque with the URL on would get the same point across, but there's the risk that this monument could be seen simply as a promotion of a website

isnt it best that the URL can be large enough to be read by passing motorists? the very people whose conscience should be pricked

Bunnyhopper

I don't have a problem with the URL on the bike. The site itself isn't selling anything, so I think that calling it advertising feels a bit misleading: it simply promotes and explains the idea of ghost bikes.

The size of the lettering seems to me to be aimed at making it legible from a bit of a distance (particularly for someone sitting in a car wondering what that white bike is all about). An explanatory sign on its own would probably be too wordy and small to be effective.

The site says that the bikes "serve as reminders of the tragedy that took place on an otherwise anonymous street corner, and as quiet statements in support of cyclists' right to safe travel". Having something that helps explain that to people who see the bike is no bad thing.

dave.obrien

my hope would be that it serves as a reminder not only to the tragedy, but to the vulnerability of all cyclists on the road. nothing can justify what happened, but we as a society should do as much as we can to cut down on the number of such tragedies, and i hope that this can go some way towards doing that.

Victor

penexpers wrote: »

Would have been better if the DCC weren't involved, I think.

It wasn't a DCC event. But I don't think you can fault Tomas in his efforts for the family.

Run_to_da_hills

Caroline_ie wrote: »

I don't mean to spoil the thread but ...

... that lock ... Is that enough?

Brilliant and touching.

People would be superstitious about taking this bike once they know what it stood for.

Cabaal

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Brilliant and touching.

People would be superstitious about taking this bike once they know what it stood for.

Agreed, same as tombstones on the side of the road...you don't see them defaced much.

I guess we need the media in general to cover the whole idea and what it stands for,

Lumen

The ghost bike itself seems a reasonable memorial, and fair play to those that got off their arses and did it.

But took a look at ghostbikes.org, and found it a bit fatalistic.

Accidents are almost always avoidable, and the site tells me nothing as driver or cyclist about how to achieve that, or than (by implication) to be more careful.

Surely it's possible to do this in a balanced way without demonising any class of road user, e.g. "Look out for each other, here's how".

Maybe this would be impractical on a global site, but seems like a missed opportunity tbh.

Going deeper into the site (I picked UK - Brighton as that's where I grew up) I find:

"Bricycles campaigns for traffic speed reduction on rural roads. People need space to exercise and to enjoy the countryside. It is no longer acceptable for traffic to travel so fast that it is impossible for the driver to avoid a crash with a pedestrian or a cyclist. 40 mph is more than enough on the city’s rural roads and 20 is plenty in places where people live."

...which is complete gibberish written by someone who has no idea about safe driving techniques.

Sorry if this comes across as too negative, just feeling a bit frustrated at missed opportunities for education.

Hungrycol

Ghost Bikes will just should like a bike shops name to the unsuspecting motorist. I think the person's name would be better suited to the down tube of the bike.

As someone previously said there was a keen cyclist knocked off his bike near Bray (don't know where exactly). He died about week later in hospital. Was in his 60's and always loved being out on the bike and loved his cycling holidays. Was knocked down by a driver in a 4x4 turning left and blinded by the low sun in her eyes. What about this cyclist? Should he not get the same recognition or is it more about cyclists who die at the scene of the accident?

Bunnyhopper

@Hungrycol, I don't see any reason why there shouldn't be a ghostbike for the gentleman you mention.

There are several other locations I can think of as well - the junctions of Westmoreland St with Aston Quay, Wolfe Tone Quay with Temple Street West, and Navan Road with Nephin Road, for example.

flickerx

Hungrycol wrote: »

As someone previously said there was a keen cyclist knocked off his bike near Bray (don't know where exactly). He died about week later in hospital. Was in his 60's and always loved being out on the bike and loved his cycling holidays. Was knocked down by a driver in a 4x4 turning left and blinded by the low sun in her eyes. What about this cyclist? Should he not get the same recognition or is it more about cyclists who die at the scene of the accident?

Absolutely nothing is stopping you from doing this memorial yourself, if you feel that strongly about it. You could contact the family, like was done in this situation, and ask them how they feel about a ghost bike being erected.

Hungrycol

Yeah I'll try. I heard the details through a friend of a friend so I'll see what I can do.