HD content

bird-man

Newish to DTT so maybe this is a silly question - Given that Irish DTT is using MPEG4, it should be capable of transmitting some HD content? Are there any plans to do this at launch time or sometime thereafter?

As a matter of interest - is it known what HD resolution would be broadcast?

Is it required for DTT stb's to be HD capable from the get go?

gtg60

Capable, yes, due at launch, definately not!

Resolution would be 1080i, it's listed somewhere in the spec's of DTT boxes.

Considering BBC don't even have an official HD channel yet AND the test is only available from sat then don't expect RTE to have anything in the near (1~2 year) future.

Scottish paddy

RTÉ have already transmitted a GAA match in HD on DTT last summer, so it can be done on MPEG 4 and I am sure there will be a HD channel on the PSB mux............. eventually.

dave-higgz

While Cutbacks in RTE will probably prevent this, there's plenty of content for RTE to have a 24 hour HD channel.

Such a schedule would include US imports such as Lost and Desperate Housewives; Sport such as GAA from Croker and 6 nations Rugby, the occasional mini-series such as Prosperity, Movies and any other home produced content.

Maybe that isn't enough to fill 24 hours but RTE should definitely adopt a model like BBC HD. It would bring great competition to Sky's channels especially with the US shows.

The channel could be on Sky HD, terrestrial and UPC, if they ever bother with HD.

Does anyone know whether RTE's new newsroom is in HD?? That could be another piece of content for a HD channel.

slegs

RTE would have to pay extra for Irish HD rights to Lost etc. Not likely at all in the short term. More possible that any HD content would be homegrown which in itself is unlikely as RTE (unlike the BBC) have not invested anything in upgrading camera and broadcasting equipment to HD standard.

So dont expect anything for RTE HD until the recssion is over and even then it will be a while.

branners69

Was there not talk about how RTE upgraded the cameras they use to film Fair City to HD cameras?

Imagine how clear the bad acting will be when its in HD!

Zonda999

It would definitely be a good addition. It even need'nt be true HD all the time. It could be like sky1 HD, showing a mix of SD and HD . The SD would be upscaled obviously. I reckon we'll be waiting a very long time for it , though

bugfreebob

bird-man wrote: »

As a matter of interest - is it known what HD resolution would be broadcast?

If you have a DTT STB with upscaling HD output, it synthesises a HD picture from the SD input and sends this to your TV over the HD cable. I have been amazed at the quality of RTE on my upscaling DTT/Sat combo receiver. It is very close to the quality of my BBC HD, and significantly better than Digital or Analogue from NTL/UPC (before I got rid of them) which didn't seem to offer upscaling outputs.

watty

This just suggests you have a very cheap HD set that can't do internal upscalling decently.

You don't need an upscalling DVD or Set-box if your TV is a full spec HD.

It will be a long while before there is HD on terrestrial. It uses five times the bandwidth and unless everyone has an HD setbox (all will downconvert for ordinary TV sets) they need a 2nd channel, thus six times the bandwidth is needed.

slegs

bugfreebob wrote: »

If you have a DTT STB with upscaling HD output, it synthesises a HD picture from the SD input and sends this to your TV over the HD cable. I have been amazed at the quality of RTE on my upscaling DTT/Sat combo receiver. It is very close to the quality of my BBC HD, and significantly better than Digital or Analogue from NTL/UPC (before I got rid of them) which didn't seem to offer upscaling outputs.

I think what you are seeing here is the high quality of the Irish DTT broadcasts as opposed to any significant HD upscaling. I have observed the DTT broadcasts on various DTT units including standalone units, combo stbs and internal tuners. I have seen it over HDMI to HD TVs and scart to CRTs. The quality is signifantly impressive for SD broadcasts even on large LCD TVs (when compared to the likes of the lower bitrate channels on satellite).

That said HD quality like BBC and ITV HD when recorded in HD like today's six nations match is a significant leap ahead again.

kuro_man

Given the small number of channels, RTE should insist that the all 4 FTA channels use the highest bit-rate possible so that the DTT has a better picture than analogue, cable or $ky.

I think they should launch a HD channel from the start, even if it has to use upscalers for non-HD material (professional upscalers will do a much better job than anything domestic). This is what CH 4 HD does.

A HD channel will encourage more uptake and help recoup the investment more quickly. The whole DTT project could fail if there is low uptake or if Boxer don't sell any subscriptions.

STB

Your assuming that there will be only 4 FTA channels on the PSB multiplex Kuro..... Like Watty said I would imagine that RTE will have higher priorities than a HD channel.

And yes Ireland did have a channel broadcasting in MPEG4 HD during the earlier trials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLGl1dWNyqs

slegs

kuro_man wrote: »

Given the small number of channels, RTE should insist that the all 4 FTA channels use the highest bit-rate possible so that the DTT has a better picture than analogue, cable or $ky.

I think they should launch a HD channel from the start, even if it has to use upscalers for non-HD material (professional upscalers will do a much better job than anything domestic). This is what CH 4 HD does.

A HD channel will encourage more uptake and help recoup the investment more quickly. The whole DTT project could fail if there is low uptake or if Boxer don't sell any subscriptions.

I dont see DTT depending on Boxer. This is an EU regulatory commitment and the rollout has started i.e. the money is already spent. Worst case we end up with a limited DTT RTE service from the main transmitters for a number of years eventually completing in 2020!!

Zonda999

slegs wrote: »

I dont see DTT depending on Boxer. This is an EU regulatory commitment and the rollout has started i.e. the money is already spent. Worst case we end up with a limited DTT RTE service from the main transmitters for a number of years eventually completing in 2020!!

Or better yet, boxer fail and we end up with Irish freeview! Pretty likely IMO because boxer couldn't compete with even a combo box that picks up RTE via DTT and the FTA satellite channels. No one is going to pay good money for boxer IMO

watty

RTENL might simply save money by turning off the other MUX. Look at Irish DAB.

I think if Boxer doesn't start or fails you will just have 4 channels on DTT till maybe at least 2012.

Zonda999

watty wrote: »

RTENL might simply save money by turning off the other MUX. Look at Irish DAB.

I think if Boxer doesn't start or fails you will just have 4 channels on DTT till maybe at least 2012.

Better than nothing anyway!

Just had a look at boxers proposed 10e/month package. Ridiculous. The only channels you're actually paying for are eurosport(That could be european eurosport instead of British eurosport too!:eek:) and Discovery. The other UK channels are all FTA FFS!

As for that dearer package, their including sky news, thats FTA too!

To come to think of it, RTE may just shut down that other mux alright!!

BTW, i agree with kuro-man, RTE should be transmitting the four channels at the highest possible bit rate for the best quality

ro2

If the spec of the boxes is mpeg4 HD, could RTE not just broadcast in HD and let the boxes downscale for the viewers without a HDTV?

dahak

ro2 wrote: »

If the spec of the boxes is mpeg4 HD, could RTE not just broadcast in HD and let the boxes downscale for the viewers without a HDTV?

I may have read this incorrectly but my understanding was that the specification for Irish DTT required MPEG4 HD decoding with both HDMI and SCART outputs in all receivers. This would mean that all compliant receivers can use a SD or HD signal and down-convert a HD signal to SD for SCART output. In this case a channel could convert from SD to HD and back to SD at will with no inconvenience to any viewers. It would also mean that there is no need to simultaneously broadcast any content in SD and HD you would just broadcast it in HD.

Could this mean that a 'timeshare' HD channel or multiple SD sub channels could be provided.
By a 'timeshare' HD channel I mean that any one of the channels in the mux would be able to change output from SD to HD on the fly or provide multiple SD sub channels (a la BBCi). The extra bandwidth could be divided between the channels in an equal timeshare arrangement where the channels would agree who had the extra bandwidth at a given time.

Example:
Assuming a four channel mux (RTE 1, RTE2, TV3, TG4) each channel would be entitled to six hours of extra bandwidth per day to do with as they would.
This would give RTE 12 hours, with TV3 and TG4 having six hours each.
The slots would be evenly distributed at first with the channels having to horse trade for additional hours or changing slots.
Thus for a big event (Ireland v. England rugby) RTE would get agreement for the extra bandwidth during that time and could use it to show the match in HD or to show a different sporting event that was on at the same time or maybe to show alternative programing for the non rugby people).
This type of situation would be very useful for the GAA championship where multiple matches can be played at the same time.


This would seem a far better use of bandwidth, so that some HD content could be shown by all the four channels in the example without having a full time HD channel.

Note: Total mux bandwidth constraints could throw this straight out the window!

Apogee

To put numbers to your idea:

Currently each of the TV channels are being transmitted at 3-3.5Mbps and there is about 5Mbps of spare bandwidth.

So if you took RTÉ2 for a GAA match, you go use the additional bandwidth and jump from 3.5Mbps to 8.5Mbps. If you were to temporarily reduce the other channels by 0.5-1Mbps each, you could push that up towards 11-11.5Mbps. Good enough for full 1080i? Probably not. The HD Ireland test channel was transmitted at 16.5Mbps! Although 1440x1080i on BBCHD is still pretty impressive.

edit: The more I think about your idea, the more I like it. It would just require a bit of quid pro quo between RTÉ, TV3 and TG4. So you could see HD transmissions of the AIF on RTÉ2, UEFA soccer on TV3, agus craobh leadóige Wimbledon ar TG4. Unfortunately, as with most good ideas, most likely nobody will take a blind bit of notice of it.