School secretary faces sack after 5yo daughter is told off for talking about God.

Run_to_da_hills

Heres another story from the Daily Mail of all papers, this time its about a school receptionist facing the sack over a letter got leaked out and found its way back to the school.

A primary school receptionist is facing the sack after her five-year-old daughter was scolded for talking about God in class. Jennie Cain's daughter Jasmine was ticked off by a teacher for discussing heaven and hell with a friend, and came home in a flood of tears.

After comforting the distraught little girl, her mother sent a private email to ten close Christian friends asking them to offer prayers for the families and the school. But a copy fell into the hands of headmaster Gary Read, and now Mrs Cain, 38, is being investigated for professional misconduct for allegedly making claims against the school and staff members.

She may be disciplined and has been warned she could face dismissal from Landscore Primary School, in Crediton, Devon. The case has sparked fresh outrage among the Christian community, which fears its members are becoming the most discriminated against people in society.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1142967/School-secretary-faces-sack-year-old-daughter-told-talking-God.html

2Scoops

Shouldn't the title of this thread be "School secretary faces sack after allegedly making claims against the school and staff members," in light of the fact it has little to do with her 5 y old daughter?

Zombrex

Funny how neither the Mail nor the Telegraph bothered to contact the school to get their side of the story. A persecuted Christian (in a country that is 71% Christian, the horror!) angle was probably just too good to let little things like balanced journalism get in the way

Luckily for the rest of use the BBC did, and the school's side of the story is that the daughter was not told off for "discussing her faith" (descriptions like that always set off my BS detector), she was told off for telling another girl at the school that she was going to hell for not believing in God (how Christian of her). That is discussing faith the same way telling a Jewish kid his people are trying to take over the world is discussing history. And the principle was forwarded the email by a church group.

The mum is being investigated for the public claims she is circulating about the school (do you blame them), but was never facing the sack (which always sounded a silly accusation, the mother would have ridiculously strong case for unfair dismissal and could sue the school for large sums of money. I hope one day some employer of mine is stupid enough to fire me for such a petty reason).

Personally I think this is a very good example of why people shouldn't teach religious dogma to children who are too young to understand it properly. What was this woman doing teaching her 6 year old child that people who don't believe in God go to hell? How is that healthy for this child that young to have those ideas banging around in her head.

robindch

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The case has sparked fresh outrage among the Christian community, which fears its members are becoming the group that the right-wing press finds easiest to wind up.

There. Fixed.

.

2Scoops

Love this perspective on perceived 'political correctness gone mad' by Stewart Lee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IYx4Bc6_eE

Húrin

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

She may be disciplined and has been warned she could face dismissal from Landscore Primary School, in Crediton, Devon. The case has sparked fresh outrage among the Christian community, which fears its members are becoming the most discriminated against people in society.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1142967/School-secretary-faces-sack-year-old-daughter-told-talking-God.html

This is the third instance in two weeks of the UK local government 'persecuting' Christians that you have broadcast. I think we've heard enough for the time being. If you want to post stories, why not post about Christians who suffer actual persecution. There are plenty of them in the world.

Wicknight wrote: »

Funny how neither the Mail nor the Telegraph bothered to contact the school to get their side of the story. A persecuted Christian (in a country that is 71% Christian, the horror!) angle was probably just too good to let little things like balanced journalism get in the way

Well, census figures don't mean much, especially in Britain. Actual Christians are a minority in the UK.

If someone wanted to, it would be just as possible to wage low-level persecution against them with impunity, as with any other minority group.

Rev Hellfire

Húrin wrote: »

This is the third instance in two weeks of the UK local government 'persecuting' Christians that you have broadcast. I think we've heard enough for the time being.

I would imagine this falls under topics of interest for most Christians and three posts over a period of two weeks is hardly spamming now is it :rolleyes:

MrPudding

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I would imagine this falls under topics of interest for most Christians and three posts over a period of two weeks is hardly spamming now is it :rolleyes:

Possibly less about spamming and more about the fact that stories like this are embarrassing to "normal" christians who don't run off to the papers anytime someone gives them a telling off.

MrP

Run_to_da_hills

Wicknight wrote: »

Luckily for the rest of use the BBC did, and the school's side of the story is that the daughter was not told off for "discussing her faith" (descriptions like that always set off my BS detector),

Have you links to the BBC version?

Húrin wrote: »

This is the third instance in two weeks of the UK local government 'persecuting' Christians that you have broadcast.

Point out the third instance,:rolleyes:

MrPudding

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Point out the third instance,:rolleyes:

I think you were only responsible for two of the three.

MrP

Run_to_da_hills

MrPudding wrote: »

I think you were only responsible for two of the three.

MrP

Unless he is including the post on Obama with Halo.

JimiTime

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I would imagine this falls under topics of interest for most Christians and three posts over a period of two weeks is hardly spamming now is it :rolleyes:

Have to agree with Rev here. Hurin, I'd say less of the talking down tbh. He was only posting a story Verbatim. We're all bright enough, well some of us:p:), to see the woods from the tree's and make our mind up on its validity etc.

As for this story. I think that incidents like this being reported as it was, only damages the credibility of other reports of real problems. One can only hope that people are smart enough to take each case on its own merit, though I don't hold much hope of that.

Fanny Cradock

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Have you links to the BBC version?
Point out the third instance,:rolleyes:

Hands up on the second!

hairyheretic

What exactly were the claims she was making about the school?

toiletduck

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Have you links to the BBC version?

Hands up on the second!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/7885952.stm

JimiTime

toiletduck wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/7885952.stm

Oh dear. this is wrong on so many levels.

1st of all: 5 year old girl telling other kids they're going to hell. You'd have to question how the parents have been teaching their daughter.

2nd of all: The school handled it badly. Kids can say nasty things all the time. I was not raised a catholic and was called a pagan, or told I was going to hell etc on occasion. If a teacher heard it being said, they simply treated it the same as if someone was jeering me. They told the kid off and gave them lines or whatever. The teacher talking to the 5 year old about 'beliefs' etc, was very poor. They should have dealt with it as they would with any abusive behaviour, name calling etc. Then, talk to the parents if they are concerned about the message this child is getting from home.

And finally: Christian institute claiming persecution. It belittles their cause (whatever it is). This was not persecution, It was a kid being a kid, and a headmater and parent being stupid. Once again, like with the nurse dispute etc, too much 'oh my goodness its religion', and also not enough proper communication.

Its one big sigh from me.

EDIT: Oh and thanks for the BBC link TD.

asdasd

Mr Read said: "This is not an issue about Christianity, it is about religious intolerance.

"Jasmine told another pupil 'if you don't believe in God you're going to go to hell'.

Quite the atheistic hero. Mr Read is, of course, now off to demonstrate against Jacqui Smith and her opposition to allowing Greet Wilders into the UK, another example of a man critical of religious intolerance.

Oh wait he is not. Not fashionable enough. Muslims good. Christians bad.

As for Stewart Lee, the most utterly boring "comedian" of his generation. He would have been boring in the Eighties when at least that version of the santimonious left was not the Esatablishment, now that it is the Establishment his "comedy" is about as edgy as Bernard Manning in 1970.

2Scoops

asdasd wrote: »

As for Stewart Lee, the most utterly boring "comedian" of his generation. He would have been boring in the Eighties when at least that version of the santimonious left was not the Esatablishment, now that it is the Establishment his "comedy" is about as edgy as Bernard Manning in 1970.

You're in good company - Robbie Williams thinks he's boring too. Who do you find amusing? Politically INcorrect comic Carlos Mencia, perhaps?

asdasd

Politically INcorrect comic Carlos Mencia, perhaps?

no idea who he is. i do like funny comedians though, so if he is funny then i would like him. Stewart Lee is a pc bore.

2Scoops

asdasd wrote: »

no idea who he is. i do like funny comedians though, so if he is funny then i would like him. Stewart Lee is a pc bore.

Stewart Lee's weakness is that he can't work a mixed-ability audience. I think you'd like Carlos Mencia a lot - you should google him if you ever have some time.

asdasd

Stewart Lee's weakness is that he can't work a mixed-ability audience. I think you'd like Carlos Mencia a lot - you should google him if you ever have some time.

No, his problem is that is he an unfunny PC bore who appeals to utterly stupid morons with crap degrees in sociology, and other useless disciplines and who - like most PC bores - think that the repetition of their beliefs and attacks on the Daily Mail are good enough to be funny, and mistake sneers for intelligence. He is fashionable now with these idiots, but Ben Elton was fashionable back in the eighties with similar idiots. And so it goes. Nobody really knows when the sheep change their belief systems, but when they do it is curtains for the latest PC fad. As for mixed ability, I have a PHD in a real subject. A real science. Were I in a dinner party conversation with the idiot I would tear him to shreds.

Humour is about quick witedness. Watch Lee on something like Never Mind the Buzzcocks, and where he is not playing to the PEE CEE peanut gallery and he has ****all to say, and not a joke or a quip to emote. He got one quip in, not sure what now, probably something about the working classes being racist, and I imagine the editors had to put that in so that we remembered he was there. But then, that lack of funny is true of his live show as well. And unfortunately I had to pay for one.

by the way where is the ever so valiant Stewart Lee who fought the good fight against Christian censorship during the Jerry Spring the Opera saga when a Dutch Parliamentarian wants to exercise his freedom of movement to exercise his freedom of speech in the mother of All Parliaments, bu they banned him.

Saying **** All. Nothing fashionable there. So we hear nothing from the hero.

What a bore. And anhyone who likes him: a definite bore.

2Scoops

asdasd wrote: »

. As for mixed ability, I have a PHD in a real subject. A real science.

Well I have 2 PhDs in real science subjects and an MD, which is clearly better than just 1 PhD, and I think Stewart Lee is brill!

Anyway, way off topic. This thread is about knee jerk reactions to perceived political correctness gone mad, not Stewart Lee's talent. This is better suited to the stand up forum where I recently created a thread on Stewart Lee. :pac:

Ciaran500

Are you not sick of being wrong almost everytime you start a thread RTDH?

Will you please start researching outside of the daily mail which you seem to love so much.

Splendour

JimiTime wrote: »

Oh dear. this is wrong on so many levels.

1st of all: 5 year old girl telling other kids they're going to hell. You'd have to question how the parents have been teaching their daughter.

I agree with you Jimi telling this to a five year old is not the best way for them to learn about Christianity, but it is biblical.
Was discussing this topic recently with a friend who was brought up in a Christian church and she said they constantly heard about hell in sunday school. I was brought up Catholic and don't ever recall hearing about hell much at all...

robindch

Splendour wrote: »

but it is biblical.

If something like this agrees with somebody's interpretation of the bible, does that make it ok to do?

Bougeoir

Well religion should have no place in state secular schools...

MrPudding

robindch wrote: »

If something like this agrees with somebody's interpretation of the bible, does that make it ok to do?

The penny drops...;)

MrP

JimiTime

Bougeoir wrote: »

Well religion should have no place in state secular schools...

Tell that to the 5 year old:rolleyes: Come on guys, this is nothing to do with religion and secularism. The teacher made it into a bigger deal, then the parent made it bigger again. Some kids say, 'I'm gonna kick your head in'. Some say, 'Specy 4 eyes'. Some say, 'Fatso'. The kid in this incident should be treated like anyone who says the above do. Then maybe their parents should be informed about what the kid is saying to other kids in the hope that the parents have the savvy to stop it. Though if you do make it into a secular issue, I can understand how the Christians will make it into a persecution issue.

JimiTime

Splendour wrote: »

I agree with you Jimi telling this to a five year old is not the best way for them to learn about Christianity, but it is biblical.

Interpretations aside, should this kid think that he knows who is doomed? My concern is that the parents would feel that their kid is not in the wrong, due to reasoning like the above. Its a nasty thing to hear from the mouth of an innocent kid. I just hope the parents realise it, and think about how and what the kid is learning.

Was discussing this topic recently with a friend who was brought up in a Christian church and she said they constantly heard about hell in sunday school. I was brought up Catholic and don't ever recall hearing about hell much at all...

I can't say for certain, but I don't recall much emphasis on hell in school growing up. Its not only the hell doctrine being taught to the kid that I see as the issue, its the kid 'recognising' who is going to hell.

Splendour

robindch wrote: »

If something like this agrees with somebody's interpretation of the bible, does that make it ok to do?

Absolutely not! This has a slight smell of the Fred Phelps brigade around it-and he makes my (and many other Christians) stomach sick...

MrPudding

JimiTime wrote: »

Some kids say, 'I'm gonna kick your head in'. Some say, 'Specy 4 eyes'. Some say, 'Fatso'. The kid in this incident should be treated like anyone who says the above do.

But is that not what happened?

The BBC Story wrote:

her daughter was upset after being reprimanded by her teacher for talking about "God and heaven" and had been warned not to talk about "Jesus" again.

How is that any different to:

Random Teacher wrote:

her daughter was upset after being reprimanded by her teacher and had been warned not to call people "fatso" again.

What is different?

MrP

robindch

Splendour wrote: »

Absolutely not!

Fair enough -- I misinterpreted the "but it is biblical" bit of an earlier post to mean that you felt there was some justification! Whoops.

JimiTime

MrPudding wrote: »

But is that not what happened?

I don't think so.

teacher wrote:

This is not an issue about Christianity, it is about religious intolerance

If it was a name call like 'fatso'. it would simply be, stop saying such nasty things. With the religious twist, it got some extra attention. I don't believe this incident is anything to do with either christianity 'or' religious intolerance. Its about a kid being abusive to another kid, it should be treated as such and the parent informed what the kid is saying.

parent wrote:

daughter was upset after being reprimanded by her teacher for talking about "God and heaven" and had been warned not to talk about "Jesus" again.

Now if the teacher in any way start talking about beliefs, I believe it was unwise. As I said, it just seems another ase of 'ooooh, its religion, signal the alarm', and then poor communication. It should have been treated like any abusive behaviour. Unfortunately, I think the parent would probably argue that her daughter was not wrong, but thats another issue, and an assumption on my part.

AtomicHorror

Why anyone would reproduce a story from the Daily Mail as anything other than fiction is a mystery to me. It may just be the worst newspaper ever published.

CDfm

Its a common christian principle to pray for those who give you grief. Its a forgiveness thing.

She probably was a bit daft to email it as she did.The teacher is probably christianophobic and seems to have handled it wrongly. I would watch her if she ever becomes santaphobic.;)

Overreaction awards all around.

The headmaster really inspires confidence -doncha think:rolleyes:

Nodin

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Why anyone would reproduce a story from the Daily Mail as anything other than fiction is a mystery to me. It may just be the worst newspaper ever published.

Though dated in some of its specfic references, this is in spirit as accurate now as it was then, and applies as much to the Mail as the paper its dedicated to....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spvvAdAN5bA

robindch

Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church has been banned from entering the UK:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7898972.stm

Do any christians feel that this constitutes persecution, political correctness gone mad or some other prejudice against religious belief?

CDfm

robindch wrote: »

Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church has been banned from entering the UK:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7898972.stm

Do any christians feel that this constitutes persecution, political correctness gone mad or some other prejudice against religious belief?

Not really - didnt he have a site God hates the Irish too:mad:

hairyheretic

CDfm wrote: »

Not really - didnt he have a site God hates the Irish too:mad:

I think he hates everyone, more or less, at least according to Fred.

CDfm

hairyheretic wrote: »

I think he hates everyone, more or less, at least according to Fred.

he hasnt been to Moyross yet

studiorat

Westboro Baptists picketed a electrical appliance shop because they were selling Swedish hoovers because a Pentecostal Pastor Ake Greeen was arrested in Sweden for hate crimes . :pac:

"If two men sleep with each other, or if two women do so, it is abnormal, just like pedophilia," Green said in his testimony.

CDfm

studiorat wrote: »

Westboro Baptists picketed a electrical appliance shop because they were selling Swedish hoovers because a Pentecostal Pastor Ake Greeen was arrested in Sweden for hate crimes . :pac:

"If two men sleep with each other, or if two women do so, it is abnormal, just like pedophilia," Green said in his testimony.

If a man sleeps with a Sweedish hoover its like.....?

PDN

robindch wrote: »

Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church has been banned from entering the UK:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7898972.stm

Do any christians feel that this constitutes persecution, political correctness gone mad or some other prejudice against religious belief?

No, but then Fred Phelps is not a 5-year old talking to his friends at school. If you are going to use the law to exclude Muslim extremist clerics and that Dutch MP with the poncey haircut then it would seem reasonable to exclude a nasty little bigot like Phelps through similar border controls.

Zombrex

CDfm wrote: »

If a man sleeps with a Sweedish hoover its like.....?

lol

Galvasean

2Scoops wrote: »

Who do you find amusing? Politically INcorrect comic Carlos Mencia, perhaps?

Nah, he steals all his material from other comics.

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Why anyone would reproduce a story from the Daily Mail as anything other than fiction is a mystery to me. It may just be the worst newspaper ever published.

Worse than the Sun??? :eek:

Whatever happened to ye olde 'Persecuted Church' thread?

robindch

CDfm wrote: »

If a man sleeps with a Sweedish hoover its like.....?

Nah, Swedish hoovers suck in bed.

studiorat

robindch wrote: »

Nah, Swedish hoovers suck in bed.

Applianceaphile.