Ber as a part time business

kick-on

Hey guys

i am strongly thinking of doing the ber training and operating a small business part time doing this. where can i find decent info on this??
and do i need the door blower etc to complete certs or is it possible to rent these????

Any info would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!

legs akimbo.

kick-on wrote: »

Hey guys

i am strongly thinking of doing the ber training and operating a small business part time doing this. where can i find decent info on this??
and do i need the door blower etc to complete certs or is it possible to rent these????

Any info would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!

You will need to weigh up the pro's and cons, to become a registered BER assessor will cost you the bones of several thousand euro, between course fees, time off work, lap top, registration, insurances etc.

The market is pretty well swamped as it is and there will be hundreds more registering in the coming months working within a market that will be difficult to get a foothold in as current assessors will have the monopoly of auctioneers, contractors and letting agents and a market that has shrunk immensely during the past twelve months.
Personaly I would not even consider it, you may be a long long time simply recouping that initial outlay before you turn a penny.
I would consider investing in other aspects of renewable energys, in the coming months there wil be courses available to avail of through FAS as the government unveil initiatives on training and getting people back to work.
If SEI offered me every penny I have spent thus far to deregister I would snatch their hand off.

kick-on

legs akimbo. wrote: »

You will need to weigh up the pro's and cons, to become a registered BER assessor will cost you the bones of several thousand euro, between course fees, time off work, lap top, registration, insurances etc.

I have done a rough income/expenditure allowance already and have allowed for course fees etc and already have a laptop and ofice equipment etc, what sort of insurance would i need, What is the charge for a assesment at the moment??

Time off work should not be a problem to do the course as i still have all my holidays and i was planning on doing the assesments after work until i was sure the business was viable

topcatcbr

read http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055486735

Note that over 5000 people qualified when origonal estimates required 2000 and training providers are still chuning assessors out. These estimates were done when the properties were booming. These are not the same times.

The insurance is PI and PL and will cost approx €800 PA

legs akimbo.

According to SEI statistics there are 1750 registered assessors.
In total 8656 BER certs have been issued in total...does this include those issued to new dwellings pre 09 ?
There are a further 4898 certified but as yet unregistered assessors.
There are 250 on average certs being completed per day.

This means each currently registered assessor completes on average 1 per working seven day week.

Add to this figure by years end a further 2000 assessors minimum from the total certified and yet to train, with certs issued at a constant of 250 per day
It is no difficulty to obtain a cert, with only one being produced on average per week per assessor, so the volume of registered assessors will have no effect on the numbers issued but a massive effect on prices charged in a competitive market.

3,750 assesserors by 2010 = A total of 0.46 BER certs per week per assessor, or two a month:rolleyes:

On a spend of €5000 (conservative estimate) you will recoup your outlay in about 16 months with prices staying at a present average constant. (they will not)

Pretty depressing reading, wish I hadnt done that now :eek::(:(:(
This is of course without, paying yourself for one single second of your time, vehicle, petrol, expenditure tax etc etc for a year and a half.

Feck I knew I should have put my money into shares of Anglo Irish when I had the chance

topcatcbr

My advise for what its worth is spend your money and time on somthing else. Maybee a good holiday. Because unless you require to do this for your current profession and your employer is paying you will be wasting your money. It is not even a part time business. Sorry

kick-on

any idea how much they are charging per cert at the mo????
im sure its a case of who you know not what you know in regards to this as with all construction work. Is the energy rating being enforced at all??

nodenrg

Do you have a Level 6 construction related qualification?

Slig

nodenrg wrote: »

Do you have a Level 6 construction related qualification?

When has that mattered before?:rolleyes:
The average cost of a cert seems to be about €200 - €300 per dwelling

dunie001

When has that mattered before?
The average cost of a cert seems to be about €200 - €300 per dwelling

It matters because in order to register with SEI, you are supposed to have a background in construction...not a degree/diploma as such but a background in construction all the same. Also, it's easier to prove compliance with a degree/diploma than trying to prove experience with no degree.

kick-on

Yep, i have a ordinary degree, Currently completing a higher degree so taught it could be a handy sideline like!!

dunie001

at least you're studying during a recession! you might have some hope of a job when you finish!

topcatcbr

For those hoping to do this course to make a living doing BERs please read

Mail sent to BER training providers from SEI

SEI requires that all training providers prominently quote the paragraph below outlining the current number of registered and certified assessors on all their marketing and promotional material. This must be updated to reflect the most recent assessor numbers - please refer to the monthly report on the SEI website.

"As of the 13th of February 2009 there were over 1,818 registered assessors. A total of 4,898 people (including those currently registered) have successfully completed BER Assessor training courses. It is expected that some proportion of these qualified people can be expected to go on to register with SEI. SEI estimates that the equivalent of 1,000 full time active BER assessors would be required to meet the demands of the residential BER market."

dunie001

just to add to topcatcbr above...

When I registered with SEI less than two months ago there were only 5 BER assessors in Leitrim...now there are 18!!!

Where the hell is all the work going to come from to keep up us all above board???? In leitrim! madness!

muffler

dunie001 wrote: »

there were only 5 BER assessors in Leitrim

Never heard of the place

dunie001

Ah sure t'is a beautiful spot! with mountains and rivers and lots and lots of bogs!!! he he he! but unfortunately not a lot of houses!!!:rolleyes:

kodak

I think I heard some where that there are nearly 8000 BER assessors and only 9000 certs have being issued this year.

correct me if i'm wrong thou!

muffler

Theres about 2000 registered assessors and probably about the same number or more who have not yet/unable to register with SEI.

kodak

Irish Times -12-feb-09

However those rumours appear to have been spectacularly unfounded as the 20 or so training courses around the country have been churning out graduates. There are now 1,750 SEI-registered assessors with a further 4,898 non-registered but certified assessors and another 2,000 awaiting certification.

And just in case we weren’t getting the point, it goes on to boot it home with “the conditions for a healthy competitive market for this service are now very much in place”. SEI says there has been a “significant and sustained” increase in the number of BER assessments being completed and published since January 1st with on average 250 per day, making a total of 8,658 assessments

dunie001

I keep watching the Oireachtas every night hoping (in vain) that at least one TD or Independant brings up the issue of how they are going to enforce the legislation...i'm still watching and waiting:rolleyes:

But considering the fact that they can't enforce the banks, building societies, house prices, tax evasion, civil servants, budget etc. etc. I don't see much hope of them discussing BERs...damn!

mirrorball1

Hi,

Thinking of doing the BER course buy wanted to ask a few questons before forking out for it..

As a BER, are you restricted to working only in area you live or can you operate nationwide?

Is there a regulated minimum rate for the service or can BER's undercut each other?

Is there a cap on the amount of BER's operating in each area/county or is it a free for all?

All info much appreciated!

muffler

Ah. Each question is double barreled but here goes.

1. Travel all you want.

2. Charge as much or as little as you want.

3. Free for all AFAIK.

Im not really into the whole BER set up and Im open to correction on the above but I believe I have answered accurately.

mirrorball1

Have to say having no minimum price rate or any form of regulation is a little worrying..
Surely as the amount of BER's is increasing by the week and there does nt seem to be any cap on the amount of operators out there undercutting is going to become a problem.

Call me a cynic but looks like the real winners in this scheme is SEI..

No6

Mirrorball take my advice, save your money, take you family on a nice holiday and get something good out of it. There are too many BER assessors and not enough BER's, a lot of people still havn't done any yet miost have done a few but it is definately not the cash cow so training providers would lead you to believe. There are some people doing them so cheap they must be using a photocopier,theres no enforcement and to my mind the whole system is rubbish.

engrish?

No6 wrote: »

Mirrorball take my advice, save your money, take you family on a nice holiday and get something good out of it. There are too many BER assessors and not enough BER's, a lot of people still havn't done any yet miost have done a few but it is definately not the cash cow so training providers would lead you to believe. There are some people doing them so cheap they must be using a photocopier,theres no enforcement and to my mind the whole system is rubbish.

Agreed. It is not a profession. I would like to have my €4,000 back if at all possible.

The only money made in this is by the training providers and the SEI.

mirrorball1

cheers for the advice No.6 / Engrish,

Might take your advice and bring the missus on a holiday instead
I'm sure there would be no complaints on her side..

Rang SEI this morning with a few questions and the guy i got talking to seemed a bit of a spoofer to be honest saying there was plenty of opportunities out there etc..

The whole area seems pretty saturated alright,think i ll give the whole idea a skip..

btw Engrish if you dont mind me asking.. have you got much work out of it so far?

engrish?

mirrorball1 wrote: »

cheers for the advice No.6 / Engrish,

Might take your advice and bring the missus on a holiday instead
I'm sure there would be no complaints on her side..

Rang SEI this morning with a few questions and the guy i got talking to seemed a bit of a spoofer to be honest saying there was plenty of opportunities out there etc..

The whole area seems pretty saturated alright,think i ll give the whole idea a skip..

btw Engrish if you dont mind me asking.. have you got much work out of it so far?

It cost me 4k to do it and I have made about 2k so far. Every euro is hard won!

sydthebeat

engrish? wrote: »

It cost me 4k to do it and I have made about 2k so far. Every euro is hard won!

2K profit, or 2K income?

at the moment if i make 50 on an assessment im lucky...

engrish?

sydthebeat wrote: »

2K profit, or 2K income?

at the moment if i make 50 on an assessment im lucky...

About 1800 net. Got a decent bit through word of mouth, has dried up completely now though.

sydthebeat

engrish? wrote: »

About 1800 net. Got a decent bit through word of mouth, has dried up completely now though.

although thats not huge, its actually very good for this business...

you must have done a fair whack of assessments...

I have done 11, but am currently doing a development of 19 units...

engrish?

sydthebeat wrote: »

although thats not huge, its actually very good for this business...

you must have done a fair whack of assessments...

I have done 11, but am currently doing a development of 19 units...

yeah gotten a good few but its seriously competitive now.... Do you mind saying how much you are getting per unit for the 19? I am pitching for a group of 21 houses at the moment but they are all over the place. Down to 150 all in

d'Oracle

The dreaded exam is coming soon.

That should clear out some of the competition.

No6

d'Oracle wrote: »

The dreaded exam is coming soon.

That should clear out some of the competition.

I doubt it if you can write your name you'll probably get 100%, I wonder will they accecpt paw prints from my dog, I've got him booked for a training course!!!:D

Pkiernan

kick-on wrote: »

Hey guys

i am strongly thinking of doing the ber training and operating a small business part time doing this. where can i find decent info on this??
and do i need the door blower etc to complete certs or is it possible to rent these????

Any info would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!

Hello,

Here is a breakdown of my actual set-up costs:

1. Training Course: €2000
2. SEI Registration: €1215
3. Prof. Indemnity Ins.: €387
4. Website (setup myself): €40
5. Tools, camera, etc: €300
6. Company Setup: €350
7. Signage, bus. cards etc €150.

So, the total setup for me was about €4400.

Remember that you need to maintain any and all records for 10 years! (Can you produce a document you typed up 10 years ago - I know I can't). If you decide in 4 years to jack it in, you still have to keep your records.

There is a €121.50 registration fee every year.

Each cert you issue costs you €31.

You would be strongly advised to maintain Professional Indemnity Insurance at the very least for as long as you are working.

Potential liability is HUGE if you make a mistake. Although a case has yet to reach the Courts, the following is possible:

A. An assessor mistakenly grades a house as a B3 rating.
B. Purchaser buys house.
C. Purchaser gets another BER (possibly years later).
D. New assessor grades the house as a C1 or C2 (a worse rating).
E. Purchaser can then sue original assessor, claiming he would not have bought the house had he known the house was only a C1, he was expecting a B3. Assessor can be liable for house sale transaction costs, and any difference in value of houses.

This is one reason why I take my time when assessing, takes LOADS of photos, and have customer pre-sign the SEI Letter of Engagement, and keep my Indemnity Insurance valid.

An assessor is PROHIBITED from assessing a family members house, or any house that he/she or his/her family members have a financial interest in.
This came as a shock to many in my training course, myself included, as I had originally planned to do the course to save the money in assessing family prperties.


My Pricing Structure is as follows:

1 bed apt.: €100
2 bed apt.: €125
3 bed apt.: €150
House: €200.

These prices are the total prices the customers pay, The Cert Fee and VAT are included in the prices I charge.

For an existing dwelling, I spend approx 90 minutes on site, an average of 45 mins each way in the car, and depending on the type of dwelling, up to 3 hours on total calcs. I double check all of my calculations.

I then post the Cert, Report and Advisory report to the customer, along with my own seperate report to help explain the SEI generated Advisory Report. Total of this can be up to 20 pages.

In summary, it is not a high profit business to be in. I would compare it to the situation with taxi drivers at the moment. Too many assessors, not enough houses to assess.

I enjoy the work so far, but it is purely part time, and I do not expect to make any real money from it.

If you have any other questions, I would be happy to try to answer them for you.

All the best,
Paul.

parka

This sums it up for me.


BER assessors bidding for work
In this section »
Talking Property
IN BRIEF
EMMA CULLINAN

THE EBAY auctioning mentality has come to the jobs market, with Building Energy Rating assessors – on a new website – competing for work by bidding the price down.

The website, called www.BerCert.com, has signed up around 400 SEI (Sustainable Energy Ireland) registered BER assessors who are invited to bid on jobs put up on the site by homeowners and estate agents.

BerCert says that 183 jobs have been posted on the site in the past week and 1,792 bids were received. The highest bid was €750 for a four-bed house in Dublin and the lowest was €80 for a one-bed apartment. The average bid is €236 and the average winning bid is €153.

The SEI says that there is no set price for assessments and that homeowners can negotiate with any of the assessors listed on its own site. Many who lost jobs in the building sector had hoped that becoming a BER assessor would give them a new career but it does seem that competition for work is high. The SEI says there is no cap on the number of BER assessors and that it is up to people to check how many assessors are working in their area before they train.

No6

Was this site not closed down or at leat under investigation when it was revealed the the person behind it is also a ber assessor and can use the site to under cut the loowest bidder, dodgey in the extreme and they take a referal fee.

SilverBER

The site is still running and they are quoting prices as low as €80, I believe. They take a commission of €20 and the SEI fee is €30.38 so do the math yourself.

muffler

Its better that people dont speculate.

SilverBER

OK

sydthebeat

SilverBER wrote: »

Its not speculation, Muffler, I am a member of that site and I see it myself.

have you seen an assessor charge €50 to 'get' a better rating???

if not then please do not speculate.....

this is aimed at No 6 as well....

muffler

SilverBER wrote: »

Its not speculation, Muffler, I am a member of that site and I see it myself.

You stated this

I have heard stories

You either state facts, and I warn you now that by stating facts regarding the allegations you have made here then there will be problems for both you, this site and the site you refer to or you can simply stick to your original assertion of only having heard about these things which brings us full circle again.

Its all black and white really.

SilverBER

Point taken. Apologies for that but the site is still operating anyway.

d'Oracle

No6 wrote: »

I doubt it if you can write your name you'll probably get 100%, I wonder will they accecpt paw prints from my dog, I've got him booked for a training course!!!:D

No.

Its been set by somebody who knows the methodology very well.
Not by a trainers.
It shouldnt suffer the same shoddy quality problems that some of the trainers do.

sinnerboy

d'Oracle wrote: »

No.

Its been set by somebody who knows the methodology very well.
Not by a trainers.
It shouldnt suffer the same shoddy quality problems that some of the trainers do.

stable door closed after horse has bolted

SilverBER

I dont know if the exam will clear anything out, really. The SEI have already taken their €1215 registration fee from everyone so how can they take that back without a legal fight? Am I also wrong to assume that there will be a fee to take the exam?