Lexus IS 220d or Alfa 159 1.9JTDM

Slimity

As the title suggests I'm trying to decide between the above. I'm planning on buying in the Uk, and It'll be an 06 or 07 at most I'd imagine. Have driven the Lexus recently and found it a bit slow to be honest, I'm used to driving petrols and it's possible I wasn't utilising the gears and revs properly. No experience of driving the 159 although I have a 156 currently and I really like the way the car handles, but could do without the front suspension problems. Anyone with any experience or thoughts on either would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

CharlieCroker

head says lexus
heart says alfa (have a 156 myself)

Quality on the 159 is a massive jump on the 156 though.

rufio306

personally i would go for the lexus, think theyre a nice car them 220d's, iirc theyre 175bhp so not slow by any means! if you like the look of them have a look at the new mazda 6, imo they look a bit similar

reitoei

With Charlie on this... heart says Alfa, head says Lexus.

Would you consider a boxer diesel Subaru Legacy or a 5 series?

CharlieCroker

yes to the BM. 525d is a cracker. be a bit older for the same money though
Legacy is a great car but the boxer diesel is a bit rough by the very design of the engine.

Tony Broke

Wouldn't be gone on the lexus, 159 looks lovely but im sure you could find something better and petrol for that money.

If you want good power, a turbo and a big motor you cant go wrong with an Octavia Vrs.200bhp, instant power, full leather, decent on fuel, a real sleeper.

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1194057

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1116528

EPM

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Legacy is a great car but the boxer diesel is a bit rough by the very design of the engine.

I drove an imprezza with this engine recently and thought it was one of the smoothest diesels I've come across this side of a V6 one.

OP, If you're happy to cover the extra cost of depreciation with the Alfa go for it. The 159 is supposed to be pretty reliable. Would love one myself

tfitzgerald

head says lexus alfa is a nice car but the lexus will hold value a lot better

Drummerboy08

The IS220d certainly isnt slow - especially around 3/4/5 gears. IMO, the Alfa, while being a nice car, wouldnt be in the same class as an IS.

Have a look at a 320/520d and Audi A4/A6.

Stevie Dakota

You really need to drive both, I like most people was very taken with the Alfa, until I drove it. The hard, crashy ride would be impossible to live with in my case. The interior also was a let down, a real pity as who would not want a car that looks so good?

poreilly101

I'm currently Driving an Alfa 159 150 bhp diesel (09)

There is not a nicer place in the world than behind the wheel of the alfa.
Fantastic power, so comfortable and “relatively” economical
The Lexus is a Toyota masked ( sorry if I offend anyone )

My advice for what it’s worth is … Alfa 159 all the way. You will not regret it.

HashSlinging

Its not a straight match really the 2.4JTDM would be more than a match for the IS220D.

The interior of the alfa is way ahead of the Lexus.

RobAMerc

Alfa - the lexus isn't up to much dynamically (well certainly none better than the Alfa), is cheap and plasticy inside and really has very little style imo.

Lex Luthor

HashSlinging wrote: »

Its not a straight match really the 2.4JTDM would be more than a match for the IS220D.
.

was just going to say the same...go for the 2.4JTDm...

in a Ti spec of course

Slimity

Thanks for all the advice people.

Are there any mechanical niggles with either car that I should know about?

Stevie Dakota

If you are buying in the UK you will have the benefit of a 3 year warranty so try and get a main dealer 07 if possible. The Alfa is a heavy car and does not have great ground clearance so check the underside carefully.

Flaccus

Tony Broke wrote: »

Wouldn't be gone on the lexus, 159 looks lovely but im sure you could find something better and petrol for that money.

If you want good power, a turbo and a big motor you cant go wrong with an Octavia Vrs.200bhp, instant power, full leather, decent on fuel, a real sleeper.

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1194057

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1116528

Indeed, althought models you linked to above are the 1.8T 180bhp. From 2006 on they used the 200bhp 2.0 TFsi engine. Drive one myself and not 1 single issue in 2 years. Plus they can easily be chipped to 240bhp and beyond. Only minus is if you do a lot of city driving you'll only get around 24mpg.

skibum

I hired an Alfa 159 1.9jtd in Italy before christmas, I was very impressed with the handling / road holding. I thought the 1.9 engine was brilliant, it went like a bat out of hell!

Wasn't too impressed with space in the back, very little legroom, but overall I liked it.

nogoodnamesleft

I Had a 159 sportback 1.9jtd in Holland when I was over working last week. Beautiful looking car however I couldnt live with it. The hire car I got had 36k km's and had a few electrical niggles already,cigarette lighter was loose, lights in boot didnt work and central locking slightly dodgy.

Havent driven the lexus but better build and resale value

poreilly101

I have to agree the space in the back is limited as is the size of the boot... But I have to say it is only a very small price to pay for what is the rest of the package contents.

The 159 has lovely little touches that other manufactures seem to forget...

Puddle lights
Follow me home lights varied time if required
Ambiance lighting
Little features on the spedo and rev counter like Italian writing
And every switch is just in the right place

It's just feels a lovely place to be...

And that engine, it's a dream... It can pull away in every gear...

Opss:rolleyes: Am I being biased?

McSpud

Was having a look at cars this morning & aside from the obvious exterior looks the interior is gorgeous. :cool:

With reputation for reliability does that make an import riskier?

Lex Luthor

my choice would be the 159 but I could only live with one in a Ti spec...Alfa do lovely cars but unless you got the top spec one, I think you'd get very bored in a year...just my 2c

EPM

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Thats a complete load of muck, boxer engines have a natural dynamic balance like a straight 6 or a v12. They dont need balancer shafts or counter weigths on the crankshaft. They are far smoother than a normal flat4 and they also allow a lower COG too.

+1

Didn't want to be so brutal in my last post here but i agree with you totally. Brilliant engine. The salesman when i looked at one said you could balance a coin on the engine starting it up and it wouldn't budge. After driving it i'd believe it

Nonoperational

Almost all the older alfas had a list of "common" problems.... 147/156 for example could blow their big end bearings, need suspension overhall at 60k....the list is quite extensive.

The 159 as far as I know has none. Maybe the tracking can be a slight problem but as for the overall reliability its good. If your buying new, there is talk of a new 1.8 turbo petrol and a 1.9 mjet with improved co2 coming out. So have a look into that first.

colm_mcm

poreilly101 wrote: »

There is not a nicer place in the world than behind the wheel of the alfa.
Fantastic power, so comfortable and “relatively” economical
The Lexus is a Toyota masked ( sorry if I offend anyone )

What does that make the Alfa then?

vectra

colm_mcm wrote: »

What does that make the Alfa then?

A masked Ferrari ?

pburns

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Legacy is a great car but the boxer diesel is a bit rough by the very design of the engine.

Admitedly I have a vested interest as an owner but that is complete bollocks! Have you ever driven one? The engine is unbelievably smooth. It does have a strange characteristic whereby - occasionally - the revs rise and go a little rough for a few seconds while stopped in traffic after a run (engine management system). Not a major issue, rest of the time and especially on the move it's got petrol-like refinement and the boxer engine actually makes a nice noise.
(I'll climb down off my high horse now:o! )

EPM wrote: »

I drove an imprezza with this engine recently and thought it was one of the smoothest diesels I've come across this side of a V6 one.

What he said:cool:...

poreilly101 wrote: »

I'm currently Driving an Alfa 159 150 bhp diesel (09)

There is not a nicer place in the world than behind the wheel of the alfa.
Fantastic power, so comfortable and “relatively” economical
The Lexus is a Toyota masked ( sorry if I offend anyone )

My advice for what it’s worth is … Alfa 159 all the way. You will not regret it.

Calling the Lexus a 'masked' Toyota is a cop-out IMO. Since when do Toyota make tidy-handling RWD saloons? AFAIK the current model is badged Lexus in the JDM as well, which was not the case previously.

Your average Audi has FAR more in common with cheaper VW/Skoda/SEAT products than any Lexus. I don't think the 2.2 engine is on a par refinement-wise with BMW or Subaru offerings but it's a decent car.

I strongly considered a 159 but after a test-drive was more concinced than ever it was not the one to go for. After driving the Subaru it felt slow, stodgy and lead-footed. Even the car mags, who will usually try give an Alfa the benefit of the doubt don't rate the 159 in terms of driver enjoyment. It's FWD and too damn heavy.

Beautiful car of course and the 1.9 engine has a decent reputation. Also the 159 seems to be a big step forward quality-wise from what I've heard.

Number Nine

Slimity wrote: »

As the title suggests I'm trying to decide between the above. I'm planning on buying in the Uk, and It'll be an 06 or 07 at most I'd imagine. Have driven the Lexus recently and found it a bit slow to be honest, I'm used to driving petrols and it's possible I wasn't utilising the gears and revs properly. No experience of driving the 159 although I have a 156 currently and I really like the way the car handles, but could do without the front suspension problems. Anyone with any experience or thoughts on either would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

I driven Audi A4 tdi (140bhp)for the last 5 years . Two years ago I was changing the car and went for a drive in the Lexus . I found it slow and not as well put togeather as the A4. As for the Alfa , you must be mad . In 2002 I bought a 156 3.2 V6 (6 months old). Without question it was the worst car I ever had.Two gearbox in 8000 miles ,sun roof open itself. Sold it after 7 months and lost my shirt.
Try getting a test drive in an Audi A4 (180bhp) S Line Sport

vectra

pburns wrote: »

Admitedly I have a vested interest as an owner but that is complete bollocks! Have you ever driven one? The engine is unbelievably smooth. It does have a strange characteristic whereby - occasionally - the revs rise and go a little rough for a few seconds while stopped in traffic after a run (engine management system). Not a major issue, rest of the time and especially on the move it's got petrol-like refinement and the boxer engine actually makes a nice noise.

I sat into the Imprezza TD RS last Monday
Was imediatly impressed
Felt really comfy in the leather seats.
Going for a test drive soon.
I hope I am as impressed with the driving as I was just sitting in the showrooms with a big smile on my face.

I did like the Legacy years ago when Colin McRae (rip) rallied them but the new shape just doesnt get me going for some reason.

If I were to buy the Imprezza I would be going for the RS one

Biro

The RS spec in the Impreza seems like an awful waste of 9,500 to me.

vectra

Biro wrote: »

The RS spec in the Impreza seems like an awful waste of 9,500 to me.

Why?

pburns

vectra wrote: »

Why?

I think what he's saying is that it's not worth €9500 more than the base model.

That bodykit is a bit heavy-handed as well. Personally I'd go for the base model with bigger wheels and a nice dark metallic paint-job (Subaru's silver is luverly). Along with the bonnet-scoop this makes it look pretty purposeful without descending into chav. The RS just seems a bit OTT (both in value and looks) and conjures up the old scuzball image of older Imprezas for me.

Biro

Exactly. Think about it. 9,500 would buy you a hell of a lot of car these days. Handing it over to your Subaru dealer for a body kit and a few heated seats and small bits and bobs seems very wasteful. You still end up with the very same car from a driving point of view. Same engine, same handling.

pburns

Biro wrote: »

Exactly. Think about it. 9,500 would buy you a hell of a lot of car these days. Handing it over to your Subaru dealer for a body kit and a few heated seats and small bits and bobs seems very wasteful. You still end up with the very same car from a driving point of view. Same engine, same handling.

I have heated seats and never use them (although I did try the Clarkson trick of sneakily switching it on for an unsuspecting passenger:o:D).

Talking to a guy last night who was raving about an X-type he drove. He reckoned it blew a 3 series into the weeds for interior ambiance and electrical goodies. I'm not mocking, I think the X-type is an under-rated and great value car s/h. However it struck me how people get carried away with so-called luxuries (myself included to an extent).

Power seats for example are nice for the 3.4 secs it takes to get a comfy driving position but after that you'll never use of get 'value' from them especially if you're the only one driving the car...

If you love the look of the RS bits though, just go for it. It's just the spec is not great value...

vectra

pburns wrote: »

Power seats for example are nice for the 3.4 secs it takes to get a comfy driving position but after that you'll never use of get 'value' from them especially if you're the only one driving the car...

If you love the look of the RS bits though, just go for it. It's just the spec is not great value...

True about the powered seats. Use them once to adjust driving position then never again touch the button as I am the only driver.
Hmm.
Maybe go for the R version then?

Biro

vectra wrote: »

True about the powered seats. Use them once to adjust driving position then never again touch the button as I am the only driver.
Hmm.
Maybe go for the R version then?

The R version is something like 5k more though, isn't it? Extra's aren't worth that much. You'd get a 3rd party company to fit a kit and you'd get nice alloys all for less than 3k if you really wanted to, and you wouldn't notice the difference. The base model has 150bhp diesel engine, 4WD and air con. What more would you want? By all means go for extras if they're reasonably priced, but unfortunately while Subaru priced the Impreza diesel excellently well, they failed to put the extra's in a proper pricing bracket. Even the dealers will tell you that.

Sqaull20

Base is the way to go alrite, its only the alloys that really stand out in the sporty versions.I must go for a spin in one of them, my brother took a demo one out and he says it puts my Fabia vrs to shame in every area, especially handling and power wise.How he knows that from a 10 min spin I dont know, but he was really impressed.Says he didn't even notice turbo lag in first gear!! which is dreadful in my yoke.

I find it weird that no one is bigging up these cars, I cant find any decent videos on youtube on them for example, compared to say a Scirocco :rolleyes:

bbability

A friend of mine has an Alfa 159 Jtd M 1.9 with red leather seats. Its a bloody good car and I wish I had one. He's got 90,000klm done in 18months and its never let him down. Now considering he nearly bought a passat tdi (and the trouble my one has given me over the last 6 months which now includes gearbox) he's considering holding on to it after the lease is up he's so happy with it.

vectra

Biro wrote: »

The R version is something like 5k more though, isn't it? Extra's aren't worth that much. You'd get a 3rd party company to fit a kit and you'd get nice alloys all for less than 3k if you really wanted to, and you wouldn't notice the difference. The base model has 150bhp diesel engine, 4WD and air con. What more would you want? By all means go for extras if they're reasonably priced, but unfortunately while Subaru priced the Impreza diesel excellently well, they failed to put the extra's in a proper pricing bracket. Even the dealers will tell you that.

Hmm.
You see I love cars with the extras "RS" "Zetec" "Vrs" etc.
ah.
Now on saying that
Octavia 2.0 Tdi Vrs Vs Subaru Rs ??

Biro

vectra wrote: »

Hmm.
You see I love cars with the extras "RS" "Zetec" "Vrs" etc.
ah.
Now on saying that
Octavia 2.0 Tdi Vrs Vs Subaru Rs ??

VRS isn't really "extras" though as opposed to a top end model. You're getting upgraded brakes, suspension and engine for that as well as the toys. Which is where your money is going.
I'd still have the Impreza base and the 9,500 in my pocket.

vectra

Biro wrote: »

VRS isn't really "extras" though as opposed to a top end model. You're getting upgraded brakes, suspension and engine for that as well as the toys. Which is where your money is going.
I'd still have the Impreza base and the 9,500 in my pocket.

I suppose
Imprezza Base ( remapped :rolleyes: )
Nice set of Aloys.

miju

CharlieCroker wrote: »

head says lexus
heart says alfa (have a 156 myself)

Quality on the 159 is a massive jump on the 156 though.

+1

poreilly101 wrote: »

The Lexus is a Toyota masked ( sorry if I offend anyone )

I wouldnt go there when talking about Fiats sorry I mean Alfas

Flat2dmat

I drove the 159 JDTM and loved it. It's gorgeous inside and out. the Lexus wouldn't do it for me at all. what's all the talk abt Heads going for Lexus and hearts going for Alfas? are people too afraid to drive the Alfa? Reliability is no longer an issue and once you take care of your car there won't be a problem.
The diesel Fiat engines have recently gone into Volvos, Opels and Alfas - the first two wouldn't be cars which people avoid due to reliability, so why single out the Alfa?!!

Hotwheels

are people too afraid to drive the Alfa?

Ahhh nope I'm on my second JTDm and will buy another :cool:

Lex Luthor

get the 2.4JTDm 159....I have one for the last 24hrs on demo and love it

pburns

Lex Luthor wrote: »

get the 2.4JTDm 159....I have one for the last 24hrs on demo and love it

Sorry to be boring but the Irish are notoriously suspicious of big engines and the CO2 tax system has swung things maybe even further towards miserly engines. There might be a fair bit of sucking-of-teeth if you go in trying to p/x a 2.4 Alfa a couple of years down the road, diesel or not. Plus it's 159s/Breras etc are terrible for CO2 because of their weight.

Lex Luthor

pburns wrote: »

There might be a fair bit of sucking-of-teeth if you go in trying to p/x a 2.4 Alfa a couple of years down the road, diesel or not. Plus it's 159s/Breras etc are terrible for CO2 because of their weight.

I have to totally agree, but if you are prepapred to take the hit in advance, then its worth it. There is only €16/annum difference between the car tax I am currently paying for the 07 1.9JTDm and a 08 2.4JTDm