Thoughts on Ehesians 3

Splendour

Studying Ephesians in our bible study class and last night we were discussing 3:14-19

14For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15from whom his whole family[a] in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

What do other Christians think of Paul's prayer for the Ephesians? I am, as you know a believer but have never 'felt' filled with the Holy Spirit. I sometimes look at Christians that I know are spirit filled and envy them but at other times, I don't feel the desire for this. So last night I questioned myself as to why I don't have this desire all the time?

I also suggested at our bible study that a lot of Christians don't have that strong desire either else they would be on their knees day and night praying to be filled.

I then asked myself to what end would this being 'Spirit filled' achieve? And surely if God wanted me that way he would just do it as he did with Paul?
What think ye fellow Christians?
Do you think people can have different degrees of being Spirit filled?

Decided to ask these rambling questions here 'cos at bible study my collegues were nodding their heads agreeing with the teaching of how wonderful this would be to achieve but tbh, I don't see any of them having a huge desire for this either ( at least not in public...)

Bit of a ramble there-sorry!

Húrin

Splendour wrote: »

So last night I questioned myself as to why I don't have this desire all the time?

I don't think that there's many things that we desire all the time. That's called an addiction.

Besides I think that God brings his spirit to us not only during prayer. I know this because it has sometimes been given to me at other times. Sometimes when the situation appears to be rather unfavourable.

wolfsbane

Splendour wrote: »

Studying Ephesians in our bible study class and last night we were discussing 3:14-19

14For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15from whom his whole family[a] in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

What do other Christians think of Paul's prayer for the Ephesians? I am, as you know a believer but have never 'felt' filled with the Holy Spirit. I sometimes look at Christians that I know are spirit filled and envy them but at other times, I don't feel the desire for this. So last night I questioned myself as to why I don't have this desire all the time?

I also suggested at our bible study that a lot of Christians don't have that strong desire either else they would be on their knees day and night praying to be filled.

I then asked myself to what end would this being 'Spirit filled' achieve? And surely if God wanted me that way he would just do it as he did with Paul?
What think ye fellow Christians?
Do you think people can have different degrees of being Spirit filled?

Decided to ask these rambling questions here 'cos at bible study my collegues were nodding their heads agreeing with the teaching of how wonderful this would be to achieve but tbh, I don't see any of them having a huge desire for this either ( at least not in public...)

Bit of a ramble there-sorry!

Being Spirit-filled is what every Christian is to aim at. We achieve it in various measures from day to day. God has determined that we work with Him for our sanctification - that through various trials and tribulations we overcome. Why He did so, and not made us perfect immediately, is speculative. But it surely is an honour to serve as His soldier in the battle.

It is us consciously seeking to walk in Christ's steps: seeking to discover His way by studying the Bible and then putting it into practice. As we seek to do this, the Holy Spirit helps us, leads us into more light, puts more tender thoughts in our hearts, more zealous desire to honour God, more horror at sin (especially our own), increases our faith - and so much more.

It is not any sort of hyper-ventilating, roll-on-the-floor laughing/howling experience. It is a holy growth in faith, love, hope, long-suffering, patience, joy, power to minister, etc.

We don't have the desire for this all the time because we have the old nature warring against our new nature. God calls us to put the old to death daily, to crush every thought that is opposed to God and His way, to stir up our new nature by remembering who we are in Christ and how good God has been to us. To rejoice in His love - to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

Hope you can follow my ramble!

Splendour

Húrin wrote: »

I don't think that there's many things that we desire all the time. That's called an addiction.
.

Funny you should use the word addiction Hurin; last night at bible study I used the analogy of taking ecstasy-I've never taken ecstasy,hence have no clue what it feels like hence I can't miss or desire what I've never had or experienced.

Having said that, Paul was an addict...

Splendour

wolfsbane wrote: »

Being Spirit-filled is what every Christian is to aim at. We achieve it in various measures from day to day. God has determined that we work with Him for our sanctification - that through various trials and tribulations we overcome. Why He did so, and not made us perfect immediately, is speculative. But it surely is an honour to serve as His soldier in the battle.

It is us consciously seeking to walk in Christ's steps: seeking to discover His way by studying the Bible and then putting it into practice. As we seek to do this, the Holy Spirit helps us, leads us into more light, puts more tender thoughts in our hearts, more zealous desire to honour God, more horror at sin (especially our own), increases our faith - and so much more.

It is not any sort of hyper-ventilating, roll-on-the-floor laughing/howling experience. It is a holy growth in faith, love, hope, long-suffering, patience, joy, power to minister, etc.

We don't have the desire for this all the time because we have the old nature warring against our new nature. God calls us to put the old to death daily, to crush every thought that is opposed to God and His way, to stir up our new nature by remembering who we are in Christ and how good God has been to us. To rejoice in His love - to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

Hope you can follow my ramble!

Thanks Wolfsbane, I understood your ramblings perfectly well,our minds must be working along the same vein at the moment!

I get the first bit of these verses-the strenthening of the inner man etc. I have first hand experience of this in that I have quite a few trials in my life and yet have been given the strength to cope thank God...

It's the grasping 'how high and how wide...that you may be filled...etc...' is were I stumble. You have explained it very clearly thanks, but my problem is my lack of desire to acheive this at all?

I question not 'how do I achieve this' but 'why don't I have the desire to achieve this?'

Kinda worries me a bit given that I am Christian!

Soul Winner

Splendour wrote: »

Kinda worries me a bit given that I am Christian!

If you had 'not' the spirit in you already then you wouldn't 'Kinda worry' about it in the first place, believe me, you wouldn’t care. Plus the fact that you have gone to the trouble to post this is also telling. IMO your focus is good. Like what WB said, you don't need to do handsprings down the aisles of your Church to prove that you have God's spirit in you. To me it is pretty obvious that it is already there.

wolfsbane

Splendour wrote: »

Thanks Wolfsbane, I understood your ramblings perfectly well,our minds must be working along the same vein at the moment!

I get the first bit of these verses-the strenthening of the inner man etc. I have first hand experience of this in that I have quite a few trials in my life and yet have been given the strength to cope thank God...

It's the grasping 'how high and how wide...that you may be filled...etc...' is were I stumble. You have explained it very clearly thanks, but my problem is my lack of desire to acheive this at all?

I question not 'how do I achieve this' but 'why don't I have the desire to achieve this?'

Kinda worries me a bit given that I am Christian!

Yes, I suffer the same complaint. But Soul Winner says it well. Let that encourage you.

Now, what can you do to stir up your love for God? Read His Word to you, as love-letters from Him who gave His all for us. Reflect on all He has done both at Golgotha and in your personal history. When we remember all His goodness to us, our hearts will burn within us, just like to two on the road to Emmaus:
Luke 24:32 And they said to one another, “Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?”

Splendour

Soul Winner wrote: »

If you had 'not' the spirit in you already then you wouldn't 'Kinda worry' about it in the first place, believe me, you wouldn’t care. Plus the fact that you have gone to the trouble to post this is also telling. IMO your focus is good. Like what WB said, you don't need to do handsprings down the aisles of your Church to prove that you have God's spirit in you. To me it is pretty obvious that it is already there.

Thanks Soul Winner, I was thinking about this after I wrote it and it struck me that Paul was preaching to the Ephesians who too were Christian.
I wonder did they have the same thoughts that I have or were they more driven than I am...

Thank you for your encouraging words...

Splendour

wolfsbane wrote: »

Yes, I suffer the same complaint. But Soul Winner says it well. Let that encourage you.

Now, what can you do to stir up your love for God? Read His Word to you, as love-letters from Him who gave His all for us. Reflect on all He has done both at Golgotha and in your personal history. When we remember all His goodness to us, our hearts will burn within us, just like to two on the road to Emmaus:
Luke 24:32 And they said to one another, “Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?”

Perfect scripture quote! Thanks wolfsbane. Now if I could just apply it...

Thank you too for your honesty.

Soul Winner

Splendour wrote: »

Thanks Soul Winner, I was thinking about this after I wrote it and it struck me that Paul was preaching to the Ephesians who too were Christian.
I wonder did they have the same thoughts that I have or were they more driven than I am...

Thank you for your encouraging words...

The epistle to the Ephesians was written first to them but some early manuscripts omit the phrase "in Ephesus" in chapter one. It is a general letter written to be read in all the Churches even the Churches today. It is a message that is universal and can be applied to all of us. We read in the book of Revelation that the Church at Ephesus had lost their first love and maybe that is what Paul was addressing in his Epistle to them.

A good sign that God's spirit is working in you is the fact that you care whether it is or not. Just because you don't want to jump handsprings in the spirit does not mean that you do not want to be filled with the spirit. You don't need to prove to other Christians that you have the spirit. But Paul must have discerned a slipping back into the thinking of the world by the Ephesians and was merely trying – as a parent in love would try to correct their children - to avert such a slipping away.

sHnaCk

wolfsbane wrote: »

...Why He did so, and not made us perfect immediately, is speculative. But it surely is an honour to serve as His soldier in the battle

He did make us perfect... we sinned and imperfection followed. Sin is to the soul as disease is to the body.

that is why moses was told that we were no longer allowed to have incestuous relationships. God knew that should we continue with them the sin, causing mutation, disease etc. would shorten our lives even further

Splendour, I was wondering if you are born again?

Splendour

sHnaCk wrote: »

Splendour, I was wondering if you are born again?

Indeed I am-one cannot be a Christian without being born again...:)

sHnaCk

Splendour wrote: »

Indeed I am-one cannot be a Christian without being born again...:)

Splendour (and anyone else wishing to deepen their understanding and relationship with the Holy Spirit) if you go here http://www.derekprince.org/ (you will have to register for free) then click on resources, click radio, click search entire archive, click "the Holy Spirit in you". there is a 10 part lesson from Derek Prince, one of the most prolific teachers and desciples of Jesus in the last few centuries. There are many resources on his site. (he has unfortunately passed on) this is probably the most to the point comprehensive revelations out there.
I only asked about the born again bit cos there aint no point in listening to it if you're not! you know yourself!

hivizman

Just wanted to say how much I've appreciated the deep and thoughtful posts in this thread.

Splendour

sHnaCk wrote: »

Splendour (and anyone else wishing to deepen their understanding and relationship with the Holy Spirit) if you go here http://www.derekprince.org/ (you will have to register for free) then click on resources, click radio, click search entire archive, click "the Holy Spirit in you". there is a 10 part lesson from Derek Prince, one of the most prolific teachers and desciples of Jesus in the last few centuries. There are many resources on his site. (he has unfortunately passed on) this is probably the most to the point comprehensive revelations out there.
I only asked about the born again bit cos there aint no point in listening to it if you're not! you know yourself!

Hi sHnaCk,-I know what you mean about the born again bit!

Thanks for the Derek Prince link. Have heard him preach via UCB radio and he's excellent! Have also read one of his books, which was interesting so am sure I'll enjoy listening to him some more...

sHnaCk

Why are you in exile hivizman?

Splendour

sHnaCk wrote: »

Why are you in exile hivizman?

Aren't we all till we reach the Promised land...

wolfsbane

sHnaCk said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsbane
...Why He did so, and not made us perfect immediately, is speculative. But it surely is an honour to serve as His soldier in the battle
He did make us perfect... we sinned and imperfection followed. Sin is to the soul as disease is to the body.

that is why moses was told that we were no longer allowed to have incestuous relationships. God knew that should we continue with them the sin, causing mutation, disease etc. would shorten our lives even further

Ah, my fault for not being more specific. I was not referring to man's Creation (Genesis 1&2) but our personal experience of the new birth at conversion.

We are perfectly justified in God's sight and given a new nature. But we carry with us the old nature that seeks to overturn God's work in our hearts. That's what I mean about us not being perfect now. When Christ returns for us, all that will be over and perfection in body, soul and spirit will be ours forever.