Red Line Luas - inspectors (old thread)

DubLegs

Hi all,

Was on Luas red line this morning heading into town and I notice that 4 inspectors got on at the Red Cow without Uniforms or hi Vis jackets and started checking the tickets. I did see one of them with an id badge around his neck.

I'm just curious if this is a new tactic to catch people not paying? (I'm not one btw). Or were they having a "non uniform" day for a laugh?

Anyone else noticed them?

Run_to_da_hills

They sound to me like scammers, nothing would surprise me these days, last Monday it was reported that guys were going around with DCC high vis vests checking "water pressure". Several houses were robbed in the process. I would have told them to F Off.

MiniD

Yes, I've noticed these inspectors a few times. There were some on my tram last night checking tickets and destinations of passengers. They were polite and displayed ID.

Has anybody noticed the new security guards on the trams too? They are dressed in black, with hats and are quite menacing looking, but it's badly needed with some of the scum that travel on Luas. I have witnessed some ugly incidents recently which would put people off using the service.

I also notice another CCTV poster campaign around the trams and stops. Has anybody ever been proscecuted over the years from CCTV footage on Luas?

DubLegs

They definitely not scammers! I've seen the same guys this morining in uniform on many an occasion since the Luas began running. So i'd have no problem showing them my smart card - if i didn't recognise them i'd ask for ID.

Have seen the security on trams lately - however I would agree that they are need all day. Last week had to endure a guy smoking hash and generally looking out of it. on the carraige at lunch time. Thankfully no one approached him as when he got off i notice a knife sticking out of his trousers!
Although i'm sure there are loads of ppl with similar stories but it probably costs too much to employ full time security.

Back on topic - is the no uniform thing regular?

Run_to_da_hills

MiniD wrote: »

Has anybody noticed the new security guards on the trams too? They are dressed in black, with hats and are quite menacing looking,

These guys are from STT security, have been working for IR for some time and recently got the Luas contract. I have heard mixed reports on them. You can tell them by the intimidating Illuminati style all seeing eye back patch. :eek:

MiniD wrote: »

I also notice another CCTV poster campaign around the trams and stops. Has anybody ever been prosecuted over the years from CCTV footage on Luas?

Most thugs on the luas would be wearing hoodies, whats the point of CCTV except to watch passsengers. :rolleyes:

mikemac

DubLegs wrote: »

They definitely not scammers! I've seen the same guys this morining in uniform on many an occasion since the Luas began running. So i'd have no problem showing them my smart card - if i didn't recognise them i'd ask for ID.

Have the uniformed inspectors got ID? So if an inspector in uniform and Veoila hi-vis vest asks for my ticket can I ask to see ID before I take out my wallet to get my ticket?

Red Sleeping Beauty

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

These guys are from STT security, have been working for IR for some time and recently got the Luas contract. I have heard mixed reports on them. You can tell them by the intimidating Illuminati style all seeing eye back patch. :eek:

A lovely group....

AlekSmart

Again we find ourselves criticising Veolia/RPA for having to take less than photogenic action to thwart what is now a major threat to the ongoing success of Luas.

The Red Line in particular has become far too comfortable for that considerable rump of society that believes everybody else must be in thrall to their desire to dominate their surroundings.

It is a great pity that the situation has been allowed to deteriorate to its present state as we had a brand new Tram system to be proud of but in true native style we surrendered it to the savages.

Once the reluctance of Veolia to tackle these largely juvenile eejits became apparent then Luas Red Line largely became a free-fire zone between Bluebell and the City Centre.
Whilst initially the problems centred around anti-social muppetry between the jinnets themselves,once the water had been tested they moved swiftly on to intimidating other people,particularly anybody who dared to look anyway different or be obviously foreign in appearance.

Luas does not need these characters and neither does the greater body of society,however since society shies away from dealing effectively with them,they are like St Paul`s poor,always with us.

Red Sleeping Beauty

AlekSmart wrote: »

Luas does not need these characters and neither does the greater body of society,however since society shies away from dealing effectively with them,they are like St Paul`s poor,always with us.

I disagree with you intently on this, and also your generalizing of the "red line" areas but anyway, off topic...

markpb

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I disagree with you intently on this, and also your generalizing of the "red line" areas but anyway, off topic...

It's very true in my experience. If you get on a train and there's a chance you'll be jeered, pushed or threatened, who would use public transport? How do you convince people to make the switch from their car to a confrontational tram?

Judgement Day

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I disagree with you intently on this, and also your generalizing of the "red line" areas but anyway, off topic...

I totally disagree with you! Zero tolerance is required on the Luas and, indeed, all public transport. The Luas (Red Line) is quite scary at times and the stops at Abbey Street and Jervis are particular hotspots - there's no point of burying your head in the sand on this.

AlekSmart

Zero tolerance is required on the Luas and, indeed, all public transport. The Luas (Red Line) is quite scary at times and the stops at Abbey Street and Jervis are particular hotspots - there's no point of burying your head in the sand on this.

The larger Part of the issue re Luas is not a requirement for a "Zero Tolerance" policy to be retrospectively introduced in an attempt to deal with what is now a generalized problem on Luas.

The problem exists on both lines,however the section of Red line from Bluebell to Abbey St is where a passenger is most likely to be faced with having to endure anti-social,crackpot or downright physically threatening behaviour.

Whilst this may be interpreted as "generalizing",it`s not intended as such,however the structure and operation of a Rail Based service ensures that such locations are inherently more obvious than on a meandering Bus service.

Personally,I use Luas Red Line several times a week,usually off-peak,and over the past 18 months I have noted a very obvious "hardening-of-attitiude" on the part of the "undesireables".
By far the most disturbing aspect of this has been the emergence of casual racial abuse of Luas Security and Public Service Staff as well as other passengers.

I have watched as a gang of feral children,some not even in their teens,shouted and spat upon a Luas Customer Service staff member.
When another passenger attempted to reprimand them,he too got physically attacked by this one small group of CHILDREN...It was ugly and most certainly evidence of a major developing problem which iof unaddressed will seriously impinge on the development of Luas.

On the Green Line I have also had to endure Idiotic behaviour on a large scale,with large groups of frolicsome loud student types imposed "Their" views on the rest of the Tram,again when approached by the CSO their reaction was to denigrate and ignore her...all part of Human Nature I suppose?....or is It.

If these goons wish to behave in a downright obnoxious and threatening manner then there is NO place on Luas or indeed ANY Public Transport Servic e for them.

One only has to observe the extent to which Dublin Bus night time services are no longer patronized by "Ordinary" customers in many areas of the Capital....
"Serving the Entire Community" may well be a nice warm feelgood company motto,but when that translates into pandering to the aggressive threatening antics of a sizeable number of them it actually seals that services fate.

Luas,being still a "New" Public Transport service,has so much going for it including a HUGE amount of Public goodwill and support and it should be channelled towards keeping it`s service available for those who are prepared to use it with respect

highdef

Aleksmart, I agree with everything you say there. Zero tolerance really is the only solution. It may be ugly for a while with security guards having to resort to physically hauling scum from the trams but in time the scum will hopefully learn (if they are capable of that) that causing a nuisance/annoying other people/not paying the fare, etc will result in them being confronted and ejected from the tram or dealt with more severely where this is necessary. Tax payers money has paid for the tram.....we own a part of this tram system. The majority of tax payers want to travel in relative comfort without fear of being hassled or attacked......WTF should I or anybody have to fear these "people"??? I hope the new security team do whatever it is that is necessary to make the trams as safe as they were when they first started running. I have not used the red line on a regular basis for over 18 months and it was not too bad then so it must be gone seriously downhill going from the reports I have read here. If a group of kids are picking on some person and someone also tries to intervene, they then become caught up in it. What usually happens in this country??? Nothing, sweet FA....everyone else just looks and does nothing. It's always the same in this country with the usual...."It's not my problem, why should I do anything about it??" If only half dozen or so people on a tram butted in in this sort of situation, the problem with most likely be subdued. However I also admit the problem that exists of lots of kids/scum carrying knives with them and people just don't want to take the risk. It's a very annoying situation and one which must be dealt directly head on and with the severest impact legally possible.

Let's rid the LUAS of SCUM, once and for all!!!

Carawaystick

Is there not a stop at the bridewell? or could one be built for these purposes....

Red Sleeping Beauty

Judgement Day wrote: »

I totally disagree with you! Zero tolerance is required on the Luas and, indeed, all public transport. The Luas (Red Line) is quite scary at times and the stops at Abbey Street and Jervis are particular hotspots - there's no point of burying your head in the sand on this.

Fine so, the Red Line Luas passes through working class areas and is therefore used by scumbags and we need the gestappo to stamp out the scum, even the scum that have an out of date ticket or forgot their pass.

The Green Line Luas passes through the posh areas and has more trams servicing it even though it's a shorter line but we need these posh people.


I was assaulted by the same group of under 14year olds two nights in a row on the Luas to the Square from Kingswood btw.

paulm17781

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Fine so, the Red Line Luas passes through working class areas and is therefore used by scumbags and we need the gestappo to stamp out the scum, even the scum that have an out of date ticket or forgot their pass.

The Green Line Luas passes through the posh areas and has more trams servicing it even though it's a shorter line but we need these posh people.


I was assaulted by the same group of under 14year olds two nights in a row on the Luas to the Square from Kingswood btw.

So let me get this straight.

You have been assaulted on the Red line.

There are problems on the red line.

Alek is generalizing with the truth.

There are no reported problems on the green.

You are saying we need tough security due to classism? :rolleyes:

markpb

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Fine so, the Red Line Luas passes through working class areas and is therefore used by scumbags and we need the gestappo to stamp out the scum, even the scum that have an out of date ticket or forgot their pass.

The Green Line Luas passes through the posh areas and has more trams servicing it even though it's a shorter line but we need these posh people.

I'm not sure what your point is. There are ticket checks and security guards on the Green line too, at times quite a high level. Providing security at night is just a sign that Veiola and the RPA want to make public transport attractive to as many people as possible.

Judgement Day

Not quite sure where you're coming from on this as you seem to have answered your own point/question? I did not bring class into this thread - I believe in law and order for all citizens be they be 'Posh' or 'Working Class'. It happens that it is a small minority of scumbags are responsible for a lot of problems and they need to be removed from society. There are also troublemakers on the Green Luas line but the scale of the problem is greater on the Red Line. Do you not think that other Red Line 'Working Class' passengers are entitled to an adequate level of security because they are all scumbags or relations of scumbags - I really don't get your point?

HL

As regards the original post, if they're what I think they are, those guys aren't technically inspectors, their job is to find out how many people fare-dodge, what stations they get on and off at and what reason they give for not having a ticket ('too long a Q at the machine' or whatever). Apparently it allows the LUAS authorities to better manage the deployment of their ticket inspectors. It's a strange enough setup and as you'd expect plenty of ppl take the advice of the second poster in this thread and tell them to eff off, particularly the fare-dodging gearbags who they end up asking the most questions.
As regards zero-tolerance on public transport, me and my friends normally drink a couple of cans on the bus or dart into town on a night out and I don't see the point of CIE expending it's scarce resources on stopping us. That said if ppl are being abused, intimidated and even assaulted on public transport then security is obviously necessary and should be zero-tolerance.

MiniD

HL wrote: »

As regards zero-tolerance on public transport, me and my friends normally drink a couple of cans on the bus or dart into town on a night out and I don't see the point of CIE expending it's scarce resources on stopping us. That said if ppl are being abused, intimidated and even assaulted on public transport then security is obviously necessary and should be zero-tolerance.

Well people are being abused, intimidated and assaulted. That's the reason why bus services are being suspended. It's the reason why Luas has employed security officers.

Why do you feel the need to drink on the bus? Can you not wait 30 minutes to get to your destination.

bk

HL wrote: »

As regards zero-tolerance on public transport, me and my friends normally drink a couple of cans on the bus or dart into town on a night out and I don't see the point of CIE expending it's scarce resources on stopping us. That said if ppl are being abused, intimidated and even assaulted on public transport then security is obviously necessary and should be zero-tolerance.

Frankly we need a dedicated transport police who go plain clothes on Luas, etc. and arrest people like above (not just throw them off).

If enough people get arrested and some even get prison time, then the word will get around that you can't mess around on public transport.

Really it is the Gardai who should be taking responsibility for this.

DubLegs

HL wrote: »

As regards the original post, if they're what I think they are, those guys aren't technically inspectors, their job is to find out how many people fare-dodge, what stations they get on and off at and what reason they give for not having a ticket ('too long a Q at the machine' or whatever). Apparently it allows the LUAS authorities to better manage the deployment of their ticket inspectors. It's a strange enough setup and as you'd expect plenty of ppl take the advice of the second poster in this thread and tell them to eff off, particularly the fare-dodging gearbags who they end up asking the most questions.

Thanks for that!!

anotherlostie

My Dad was on the red line yesterday. After he showed the inspector his pass, the guy beside him said to the inspector that he didn't think he had to keep his ticket after he bought it. And the inspector moved on without questioning him further!

Is it any wonder people are fare dodging if this is the mentality of the people doing the inspection?

AlekSmart

To return to the OP`s issue on the plain clothes check.

This may be Rail Procurement Agency inspectors acting on behallf of the OWNERS of Luas..ie the State or the Public.

The other grades we are now discussing be they Customer Service Operatives OR Security Staff are employed by the OPERATOR of Luas,Veolia Irl.

There is a world of difference between both entities.
However the RPA inspectors DO have the power to request and check passengers tickets.

As for the issue of "class" in the subsequent discussion..it is a non-runner.
The incidences of anti-social activity occur in specific locations on an almost clockwork basis.
I really could not give a toss whether the perpetrators are members of the freemasons,as long as they are prevented from harassing,intimidating or otherwise interefering with the rest of the passenger base.

The "Class" of these individuals is irrelevant in the extreme.
What IS relevant is the level of deterrent which RPA/Veolia is prepared to employ to rid the system of them.

bk

Mr.S wrote: »

Dunno if you've seen these CIE chaps, but their ****ing huge and lets just say you woundn't mess with them.

Stick 2 of them on every luas after say 6pm and i'd say most of the trouble would be stopped..

I know these chaps are massive and you certainly wouldn't mess with them (many of them are Polish ex-military chaps). But all that happens is that our scum bags quieten down when they are aboard and cause trouble when they aren't.

Also all the security guys normally do is throw them off.

What we need in addition to the security guys is plain clothes gardai to catch and more importantly charge scum bags who cause trouble. This way the scum never know when the gardai are aboard and when they might get caught.

This is how must public transport is policed in major cities around the world.

Red Sleeping Beauty

There's a fine line between giving tough as nailz security "ex military chaps" (or the Guards)carte blanche to do what they want with "useless scumbags" and someone who either couldn't afford the fare that day or lost/forgot their ticket or pass.

markpb

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

There's a fine line between giving tough as nailz security "ex military chaps" (or the Guards)carte blanche to do what they want with "useless scumbags" and someone who either couldn't afford the fare that day or lost/forgot their ticket or pass.

If you can't afford the fare, there are plenty of cheaper options: bus, cycle, walk or apply for a DSW pass. How should a ticket inspector know who to fine? Is there some way for them to tell that you can't afford it or some way to know you're telling the truth about having forgotten your pass? There isn't so they're perfectly fare: no ticket, fine and no travel. Anything else would be crazy.

In any event, plenty of people have been fined for having forgotten their ticket and when they sent a copy of the ticket to the RPA, the fine has been quashed so the system does deal with what you're saying but publically, the message they're sending is that breaking the rules will not be tolerated. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

thesiren

I travel on the Luas red line every day to and from work. I have seen the Veolia inspectors in their red/orange hi-vis jackets, however last week I encountered two young men, looked like students, with id badges hanging round their necks. They asked to look at each person's Luas ticket and then asked what stop they were getting off at. I felt a bit uncomfortable showing them my ticket because they didn't seem to be genuine inspectors. I assume they are the same as what other posters here mentioned in 2009 regarding people who just assess how many passengers there are at which stops and whether they have the correct ticket, or do these people have the power to issue fines like the Veolia orange/red-jacketed inspectors?

Losty Dublin

thesiren wrote: »

I travel on the Luas red line every day to and from work. I have seen the Veolia inspectors in their red/orange hi-vis jackets, however last week I encountered two young men, looked like students, with id badges hanging round their necks. They asked to look at each person's Luas ticket and then asked what stop they were getting off at. I felt a bit uncomfortable showing them my ticket because they didn't seem to be genuine inspectors. I assume they are the same as what other posters here mentioned in 2009 regarding people who just assess how many passengers there are at which stops and whether they have the correct ticket, or do these people have the power to issue fines like the Veolia orange/red-jacketed inspectors?

Contact Luas/Veolia if you have concerns about them. They may well be legitimate but no harm in checking it out.

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