need a real job

DamagedTrax

this freelancing lark is all very well when its good.. but when its bad its bloody dreadful

really want a consistant paycheck but dont wanna go back to distribution (where i spent 12 mind numbingly boring years in inventory control).

blah blah grr rant etc etc....

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

(where i spent 12 mind numbingly boring years in inventory control).

Can't be any worse than making Dance Music and slightly less monotonous, No?

DIRTY69

yeah too right. I'm in the same situation now. looking to make a transition!

DIRTY69

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Can't be any worse than making Dance Music and slightly less monotonous, No?

boom boom!

PaulBrewer

I'm only askin', like?

DamagedTrax

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Can't be any worse than making Dance Music and slightly less monotonous, No?

dude, if the pay checks were consistant i'd gladly sit here recording whale music all day long.. ANYTHING is better than looking after a warehouse with half a million differant part numbers :mad:

Neurojazz

Come write for me - Trance tho

DamagedTrax

hang on.. just need to grab my "trance by numbers" referance book

Neurojazz

nah, leave the book... just start kicking a dustbin and blowing a whistle.

DamagedTrax

you know what.. with all the slagging that trance gets, i bet if half of us sat down to write some we wouldnt have a clue.

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

dude, if the pay checks were consistant i'd gladly sit here recording whale music all day long.. ANYTHING is better than looking after a warehouse with half a million differant part numbers :mad:

Indeed ! I made a very comfy living for a while recording Country + Irish records - most of them make whales sound like Pavoritti ....

On a serious note, and to revisit a thread from before -

I think, as a rule, the idea of making a full time living out of music alone is practically a dead idea unless you're fabulously talented or lucky or both. Certainly not long term.

That's why I have a lot of respect for the likes of Tweeky and Woodsdenis who have done so for a long time at a high level. Their skills set them apart from the average mug.

It's a much more practical idea to make music your hobby again rather than battle constantly just to pay the rent.

I believe once those primary pay-the-rent urges have been satisfied the music you'll make will be better.

DamagedTrax

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Indeed ! I made a very comfy living for a while recording Country + Irish records - most of them make whales sound like Pavoritti ....

On a serious note, and to revisit a thread from before -

I think, as a rule, the idea of making a full time living out of music alone is practically a dead idea unless you're fabulously talented or lucky or both. Certainly not long term.

That's why I have a lot of respect for the likes of Tweeky and Woodsdenis who have done so for a long time at a high level. Their skills set them apart from the average mug.

It's a much more practical idea to make music your hobby again rather than battle constantly just to pay the rent.

I believe once those primary pay-the-rent urges are removed the music you'll make will be better.

well making music is still my hobby. my income is from engineering (even if it is doing yoyo impressions right now)

but what do you do when you dont wanna go back to the daily drudge?

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i bet if half of us sat down to write some .

Is 'write' the right word?:rolleyes:

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

well making music is still my hobby. my income is from engineering (even if it is doing yoyo impressions right now)

but what do you do when you dont wanna go back to the daily drudge?

What sort of engineering?

Neurojazz

Diversify... many fingers in many pies and all that jazz... Take up teaching guitar and compete with Dav

DamagedTrax

PaulBrewer wrote: »

What sort of engineering?

well i aint building bridges!!!

i engineer for a lot of techno "producers" (i use the term lightly :pac:)
and some hip hop "artists" (again with the terminology)
and a little rock 'n roll.

it pays the bills.. not much else though

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

well i aint building bridges!!!

i engineer for a lot of techno "producers" (i use the term lightly :pac:)
and some hip hop "artists" (again with the terminology)
and a little rock 'n roll.

it pays the bills.. not much else though

Head, I hear they're building a new one over the Liffey ..... get down there.

Isn't that more programming though?

DamagedTrax

Neurojazz wrote: »

Take up teaching guitar and compete with Dav

thats not a bad idea. put the last 10 years of bleeding finger tips to good use!

was thinking of teaching production and stuff but in this day and age i'd be needing public liability and such.. and the thoughts of some little scrots coming into my home studio aint entirly appealing either.

DamagedTrax

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Isn't that more programming though?

they program/compose their own stuff. i engineer it for em. sometimes they ask for additional production and the hippity hoppers always need a bit of programing aswell but in the end i still end up with a screen full of multis and a headache.

Neurojazz

Public liability? - doesn't like the musicians union cover for up to 3mill? - not sure what the Irish equivalent is...

DamagedTrax

Neurojazz wrote: »

Public liability? - doesn't like the musicians union cover for up to 3mill? - not sure what the Irish equivalent is...

does that apply in a commercial teaching situation?

Neurojazz

Well, not sure - but most teachers are members to get on the directory - very cheap way of getting cover if you need it

dav nagle

Neurojazz wrote: »

Diversify... many fingers in many pies and all that jazz... Take up teaching guitar and compete with Dav

Thats hilarious and little old me thinking I was on to something big! Like here's me thinking of a franchise when I guess I'll be teaching the guitar forever. Oh wait my PR comany are launching my business by throwing a massive party at Bondi in the City in April, maybe I won't have to teach the guitar for much longer! 28 students later.... You just better come along guys!:)

Neurojazz

Is that going to be a 'bring a bottle' type party?

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

Thats hilarious and little old me thinking I was on to something big! Like here's me thinking of a franchise when I guess I'll be teaching the guitar forever. Oh wait my PR comany are launching my business by throwing a massive party at Bondi in the City in April, maybe I won't have to teach the guitar for much longer! 28 students later.... You just better come along guys!:)

gis a job..

dav nagle

DamagedTrax wrote: »

gis a job..

All in good time my young Padawin

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

All in good time my young Padawin

dont tease me like that you filthy slut

dav nagle

Neurojazz wrote: »

Is that going to be a 'bring a bottle' type party?

It will be the type of party with very sexy models walking around and cheap booze!:)

ogy

yeh its hard to know how to get into the oul recording game. im teaching irish at the moment full time and trying to record in my spare time. jobs up in may, dunno whether to try and get more teaching next year or to start chasing the dream:)

fabbydabby

Funny seeing it from the other side... I have a 'proper' job but when I get home in the evening, square eyed and unkempt, from spending 8 hours staring into MS Excel or AutoCAD drawings, I feel like topping myself, I don't feel like breakin out the pianey, drums or lappie and whacking out tunes. I'd love a job, contacts, decent know-how in the music industry but its pipe dream stuff I think. I like money too:pac:.

DamagedTrax

fabbydabby wrote: »

Funny seeing it from the other side... I have a 'proper' job but when I get home in the evening, square eyed and unkempt, from spending 8 hours staring into MS Excel or AutoCAD drawings, I feel like topping myself, I don't feel like breakin out the pianey, drums or lappie and whacking out tunes. I'd love a job, contacts, decent know-how in the music industry but its pipe dream stuff I think. I like money too:pac:.

well it tool me ten years of working and a lot of saving to be able to take some time away from the 9 to 5. im glad i did. i think i learned more in the last two years than i could have done in 10 if i'd been working. but somedays it would be nice to know that the next pay cheque is a day or two away.

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

but somedays it would be nice to know that the next pay cheque is a day or two away.

I've only had that the last 5 years ..... and the way the Universe is shaping may not in another 5!

DamagedTrax

its definitly changing times at the moment.

thebookofbob

Spent a long time looking at every possibility of getting out of the 9-5.. Including renting a commercial room / office type thing that was dirt cheap & crashing there on the quiet, Teaching Cubase/Reason etc.. Teaching Piano,
Going back to Uni, Moving back in with the Parents, Flogging the car & walking everywhere etc.. etc..
I can see where FabbyDaddy is coming from. Some weeks I'm giving it 60hrs of programming C code in work and coming home and spending till 2am writing / arranging music. It has my eyes looking like I should be heading to rehab and people wondering if I'm fast becoming a hermit.

Surely though Baz you are in a good position in that you DJ as well. Apparently that's where the money is and the production side of electronic music is used mostly just to raise the profile of the DJing?
So DJing / Engineering and Writing still isn't getting you the equivilent of a good 9/5? Gulp.. **** Should I be writing C code in my spare time

PaulBrewer

thebookofbob wrote: »

So DJing / Engineering and Writing still isn't getting you the equivilent of a good 9/5? Gulp.

Make you think the lads who can do it must be pretty sharp, No?

thebookofbob

It kinda makes me understand why some people are stepping away from Genres they actually like producing / writing and into more commercial terratory where there's more sales/exposure to general public.

PaulBrewer

thebookofbob wrote: »

It kinda makes me understand why some people are stepping away from Genres they actually like producing / writing and into more commercial terratory where there's more sales/exposure to general public.

Indeed.

fabbydabby

I'll take a comfortable standard of living over principles any day of the week, thank you very much!

Survivin' Ivan

It will be interesting to see how this whole mess affects us all from the guys working everyday in the industry to the guys supplementing their day jobs with nixers along the way.
Its never easy getting paid for gigs and Im sure its even harder now. If only there was some sort of a day job/engineering cross breed..

PaulBrewer

Survivin' Ivan wrote: »

w. If only there was some sort of a day job/engineering cross breed..

Got one!

road_2_damascus

DamagedTrax wrote: »

this freelancing lark is all very well when its good.. but when its bad its bloody dreadful

really want a consistant paycheck but dont wanna go back to distribution (where i spent 12 mind numbingly boring years in inventory control).

blah blah grr rant etc etc....

there arent any mind numbing jobs left in Ireland anymore, their either all taken, or have been transferred to Asia... thats why they tell us that Irelands future is in the knowledge ecconomy, knowledge = having to use your intelligence

trackmixstudio

One look at the pro audio section of adverts.ie says it all.
In there you will find tubetech, vintech, API, Royer etc.
This is all "keeper" gear.

I am very lucky that I am busy. Engineering IS my day job.
The key is finding a niche and working very hard to raise your profile in that niche. For me it's metal. These days metal bands know that if they come to me they will get a result rather than risking somewhere that does the odd bit of metal. The recording and mixing process is very different to your average guitar band.

Also TV/film work is great because it gets your week days booked out whereas many bands are weekend warriors who work day jobs. It is very "clicky" though and hard to get into. My Apple trainer qualification got my foot in the door with Filmbase which led to lots of film/documentary work and recently tv work.

PaulBrewer

trackmixstudio wrote: »

The key is finding a niche and working very hard to raise your profile in that niche.

I agree, all my customers who do well are niche guys.

One might think that many irons in the fire is the way to go but my observations suggest the only reason to have many irons is to find which ones to stick with.

I can't think of any place I know that 'does everything' that does well.

Survivin' Ivan

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Got one!

Me too..;)

PaulBrewer

Survivin' Ivan wrote: »

Me too..;)

But for how long no-one knows!

DamagedTrax

thebookofbob wrote: »

Surely though Baz you are in a good position in that you DJ as well. Apparently that's where the money is and the production side of electronic music is used mostly just to raise the profile of the DJing?
So DJing / Engineering and Writing still isn't getting you the equivilent of a good 9/5? Gulp.. **** Should I be writing C code in my spare time

djing does make me a decent enough living but im getting tired of the travelling aswell. i see my son weekends and its not nice when im not there. i probably shouldnt be moaning about it as im well aware everyones in the same boat but i needed a rant the day i wrote the original post

Survivin' Ivan

Let it out man, thats why we are here.

frobisher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I think, as a rule, the idea of making a full time living out of music alone is practically a dead idea unless you're fabulously talented or lucky or both. Certainly not long term.

Not doing something because it's hard is for wimps I also think that engineers and musicians get better and luckier the more they work. But work is supposed to the bills and there's only so much any one person can squeeze into a working week. That's the real conundrum.

I made a living recording bands. It broke my heart. They were mostly sh1te and I have no desire to do it again like that. Now I make a living working on concerts on large format LED screens. It's a specialist niche with a peak summer season so I still have huge control over my time for continuing to make music. I also work very hard on music at the sacrifice of nearly everything else like having money and seeing friends etc. Wouldn't change it for the world though. I guess it's to do with priorities. If someone came along and asked you to stop making music/engineering forever-ever in return for becoming a millionaire actor would you take it? Really? If the answer is yes then maybe you should just give up now!

Freelancing is a great way to live and work. I had a great time with it for years. But I think as you get older and more experienced it becomes more difficult to accept the dips over extended periods. You're also less enthused by the simple fact that you've earned money for something you really love as the reality is that it becomes normal and a paycheck to cover the rent feels better than the chance to work in a nice studio. And this country of ours is just so, so, so, so small that there isn't much work to go round. So my own personal advice is to do it while you can and if the time comes that it's not working you'll be the first to know. Having two forms of freelance income can be good too, I've seen several people do that very effectively. Maybe you could sell our body to elderly women for afternoon entertainment?