Letter in Irish Times today

Nolanger

Best way to dole out the dole?
Madam, – I would very much appreciate an explanation from a representative of the Department of Social Welfare regarding the huge difficulties involved in successfully applying for Job Seekers’ Allowance, and the apparent inadequacies of staff to process claims – not just swiftly, but at all.

As an intelligent, qualified, fourth-level graduate, I find the experience of “signing on” hard enough, but to have to further deal with a continual lack of information, misinformation and mislaying of information once provided only serves to ensure I feel even more demeaned after every communication with the Department or its local offices.

The archaic administrative system which does not appear to allow for any interaction and transfer of information between Departments, namely, Social Welfare, Revenue, Education, even though one’s PPS number is the basis for all dealings with each of these, is in need of massive overhaul and the development of integrated processes. Aside from this, a short-term option would be to employ staff who are actually capable of actually running the show. I’m available. – Yours, etc,

mirror mirror

SPOT ON

ntlbell

it's funny if the same letter was drafted by anto in 1995 no one would give two hoots.

now that middle to upper class people have to sign on we'll hear it all down to the brand of coffee they don't give you while filling in your forms.

lolli

every time i walk into the social welfare office i'm made feel like crap as they always talk down to you. the witch even accused me of lying to her. I guess they are so smug because they are certainly sure that their jobs are safe.

Lazarus2.0

lolli wrote: »

every time i walk into the social welfare office i'm made feel like crap as they always talk down to you. the witch even accused me of lying to her. I guess they are so smug because they are certainly sure that their jobs are safe.

Walk into anyone's workplace with that attitude and you'll get attitude back . You refer to the witch in between referring to they and them . Are you tarring all staff with the same brush here ? There's a witch in my local Supervalu - doesnt mean all the staff are spawn of the devil . She may even be a nice person - I just didnt like her attitude one time and it stuck with me . There was an old cow used to work in my local post office - now she was a witch ! Ask her for a postage stamp and she'd curse you to hell for wasting her time . My point is that there are crap people working everywhere and there are also decent people who it's easy to label as crap either individually or as a group based on one bad experience/person .

What should maybe be considered is that DSW staff are labouring under the same archaic system that DSW clients are financially dependent on . I know there's a huge difference between (1) arriving in work every morning faced with a backlog that you know is going to be bigger than it was yesterday morning and will be bigger again tomorrow , and (2) going to your local office in the morning to find out whether your claim has been processed only to find out that they cant find your file and could you bring in the birth certs again etc or that it's in the queue and might be sorted next week - and you got no food and no money and the kids are living on beans and toast in the meantime .
It's demoralising on both sides but bear in mind that as a client you have to deal with one stressed out/frustrated/demoralised/aggressive (*delete as appropriate) person - that staff member will most likely have to deal with about 50 stressed out/frustrated/demoralised/aggressive (*delete as appropriate) people in the course of that one day . I'm only guessing at the numbers but hopefully the point is made .
I've been a 'customer' of DSW and it's forerunner on and off over the years and as your man in The Times says , it is demeaning just walking into the office . It doesnt really get less so even though the skin grows thicker but you do what you got to do and there's no point in taking it out on anyone else . Treat the staff with respect and it'll generally be returned . It's their job to help you so I dont see the point in discouraging them from doing so .



Meh , I should have just done +1 to ntlbell's post . It tickled me cos it's true .

GavinZac

ntlbell wrote: »

it's funny if the same letter was drafted by anto in 1995 no one would give two hoots.

now that middle to upper class people have to sign on we'll hear it all down to the brand of coffee they don't give you while filling in your forms.

Right, so someone with a Master's Degree on the dole is just a middle class wastrel, unentitled to voice the concerns that your hypothetical Anto, presumably standing as a caricature of under educated, under 'privileged', is entitled to make?

In this day and age, having an (n>2)-level qualification and being somewhat literate aren't signs of someone's class privileges or family's resources - I would know. If your presumably tracksuited, ear-pierced generalised Anto had written such a letter in 1995, you'd have to ask - why's Anto got a 4th level degree? Why isn't he working when 99% of the country are, then? What integration is he talking about? What in gods name is an ERP? Where are these mystical computers that'll comprised this integrated system?

Your little slur on just about everyone is as pointless as it is pathetic.

Regards

An Unemployed Masters Graduate from a Working Class Area or simply "Tony" (You'd be shot for being "Anto" in Cork)

rediguana

Staff are quite nice in Dun Laoghaire. Efficient too.

ntlbell

GavinZac wrote: »

Right, so someone with a Master's Degree on the dole is just a middle class wastrel, unentitled to voice the concerns that your hypothetical Anto, presumably standing as a caricature of under educated, under 'privileged', is entitled to make?

In this day and age, having an (n>2)-level qualification and being somewhat literate aren't signs of someone's class privileges or family's resources - I would know. If your presumably tracksuited, ear-pierced generalised Anto had written such a letter in 1995, you'd have to ask - why's Anto got a 4th level degree? Why isn't he working when 99% of the country are, then? What integration is he talking about? What in gods name is an ERP? Where are these mystical computers that'll comprised this integrated system?

Your little slur on just about everyone is as pointless as it is pathetic.

Regards

An Unemployed Masters Graduate from a Working Class Area or simply "Tony" (You'd be shot for being "Anto" in Cork)

It's nothing to do with who's entitled to moan about it or not.

Social services has been a shambles since the day of it's incarnation and people who depend on it have been screaming and crying about it for years the nearest it gets to a bit of publicity is a 5 minute token on joe duffy.

Now, heaven forbid we have people in this country with a masters subjected to this incompitence so now we get to read about it in the Irish times because her PPS number wasn't cross referenced which caused her a delay on her dole!

Well f*ck me.

There's no slur on anyone.

rediguana

It IS pretty annoying that PRS numbers don't seem to be linked up in different systems. Why am I always needing to dig out my birth cert for various state bodies? I was born almost three decades ago, why isn't there a profile of me and my hobbies and my date of birth and my job / tax history etc that any state body can access at a keystroke?

snubbleste

rediguana wrote: »

It IS pretty annoying that PRS numbers don't seem to be linked up in different systems. Why am I always needing to dig out my birth cert for various state bodies? I was born almost three decades ago, why isn't there a profile of me and my hobbies and my date of birth and my job / tax history etc that any state body can access at a keystroke?

Because we're not a big brother state with IDs implanted in our hands..yet

Tbh, I think the SW frontline staff are doing a good job considering they're swamped with applications. Imagine dealing with the same monotonous query hour after hour, day after day especially when the information is available online.

ntlbell

rediguana wrote: »

It IS pretty annoying that PRS numbers don't seem to be linked up in different systems. Why am I always needing to dig out my birth cert for various state bodies? I was born almost three decades ago, why isn't there a profile of me and my hobbies and my date of birth and my job / tax history etc that any state body can access at a keystroke?

there's no reason you should.

There's no reason there's OAP's sitting sick in old uncomfortable arm chairs in A+E either.

There's a lot of things need sorting out in this country no one's saying there isn't

lolli

nessyguin wrote: »

there's no point in taking it out on anyone else . Treat the staff with respect and it'll generally be returned . It's their job to help you so I dont see the point in discouraging them from doing so.

Where did I say that I was not treating them with respect. I have never ever raised my voice or said one cross word to anyone in that office, I didnt say anything when they lost my paperwork. I worked in the civil service myself and i dealt with backlogs and frustrated people everyday but I would NEVER EVER treat people in the manner that this particular woman does. I am a very quiet person and avoid conflict at all costs. I always say please and thank you to this lady but all she does in return is grunt.

SouthKerry

Listen its really simple treat people at social welfare with respect, ive been on and off the dole for years and i never have a problem with the satff there, its quiet the opposite i find them quiet nice and approcable, if i ever had a problem like forgetting to sign on they always sort it out for me, in essence just be polite and patient and friendly to them, because they are doing are great job.

AB03

Personally I find its more to do with the SWO in question.
I've never had any real issues with Ballyfermot SWO and they actually are somewhat efficient and helpful, even though getting them on the phone is absolutely mind numbingly impossible.

On the other hand, I've heard about nothing but ridiculous run-arounds from Nutgrove SWO, where a friend of mine has to sign on.
Every single 'trick' possible has been pulled to try and make sure he got nothing, including flat out calling him a liar, asking for bank statements and numerous other issues.
Despite the fact that he's only 23 and has worked since 17 non-stop and never had to sign on before last year.

Lazarus2.0

lolli wrote: »

Where did I say that I was not treating them with respect. I have never ever raised my voice or said one cross word to anyone in that office, I didnt say anything when they lost my paperwork. I worked in the civil service myself and i dealt with backlogs and frustrated people everyday but I would NEVER EVER treat people in the manner that this particular woman does. I am a very quiet person and avoid conflict at all costs. I always say please and thank you to this lady but all she does in return is grunt.

lolli , my apologies for the inference that you treat people in that manner . The second paragraph was intended as a generalisation but I can see why you might think it was directed at you .
I only quoted that part of your post as a typical example of the attitude many people have and wanted to make the point that one bad staff member doesnt make all the staff bad .

4arc

I have many issues with civil servants, mostly those in the education sector and those running the whole show, but thats a story for another day.

I can however say that, despite the extremely busy conditions in my local Social Welfare office, I have never felt dis-respected or talked-down to in any way.

Iam left wondering if I could be so courtious to people if I worked in those conditions?

I think not!