I just don't understand this (IE Procurement)

dowlingm

This looks to me like a tender for Selective Door Opening on the 22000 fleet. Surely to god Rotem could have fitted this in the factory. Instead it's going to have to be retrofitted and god knows how much testing done. KC61 or other boards.iers in the know - fill me in?

KC61

Yes this is for the 22000 fleet.

I can't say why this was not in the original specification. It (in my opinion) should certainly have been. However, what this will now allow is 6-car operation on the Rosslare route and perhaps 9-car operation on other routes if the need allows.

Now what other piece of information that has not really been in the public arena can you glean from the notice?

Judgement Day

So I presume this means that travellers on the DSE section can expect to be packed like sardines into 3 piece 22000 railcars for the next five years while the railcars are retro-fitted with these door mechanisms? Perhaps they will end up shipping them back to South Korea for refitting?

Cool Mo D

Maybe this is for a system to fit to the station platforms to tell the train which doors to open? It makes a bit more sense that way, I think.

MOH

Judgement Day wrote: »

So I presume this means that travellers on the DSE section can expect to be packed like sardines into 3 piece 22000 railcars for the next five years while the railcars are retro-fitted with these door mechanisms? Perhaps they will end up shipping them back to South Korea for refitting?

Do you mean ship the passengers for re-fitting?
That might help cut down on overcrowding.

Sean9015

KC61 wrote: »

Yes this is for the 22000 fleet.


Now what other piece of information that has not really been in the public arena can you glean from the notice?

Publicly there are 189 vehicles of this type, so 234???? They can't be implying earlier railcars, as the differences in wiring etc would be significant which would materially affect the tender price, so are they looking at a further 45 22000 vehicles? In the current climate????

KC61

Sean9015 wrote: »

Publicly there are 189 vehicles of this type, so 234???? They can't be implying earlier railcars, as the differences in wiring etc would be significant which would materially affect the tender price, so are they looking at a further 45 22000 vehicles? In the current climate????

Well done Sean! There is someone awake on Boards!!

However, there are actually 183 vehicles in the current delivery:
31 x 3 car units
10 x 6 car units (Premier Class)
5 x 6 car units (Standard Class only)

That means that there are an additional 51 vehicles on order - or 17 3-car sets. This fits in with the current investment programme, as while with all 183 vehicles delivered in 2009 there is sufficient rolling stock for both the WRC and Midleton routes, but come 2010, additional rolling stock will be required for:

1) Kildare Route additional services
2) Dunboyne/Pace services

I would imagine that this order will facilitate that, by converting the Kildare route over to 22K operation, and perhaps freeing up 29000 sets off longer distance commuter routes such as Gorey or Longford to operate Pace.

But as always this is guesswork!!!

dowlingm

I had noticed that but thought that either (a) I had missed an option take-up or (b) that IE hadn't updated the website and the current totals were wrong

Myapocalypse

Judgement Day wrote: »

So I presume this means that travellers on the DSE section can expect to be packed like sardines into 3 piece 22000 railcars for the next five years while the railcars are retro-fitted with these door mechanisms?

Not necessarily. As far as I know 6 piece 22000 railcars will be able to run on the rosslare line when the new timetable is introduced in June.

KC61

Myapocalypse wrote: »

Not necessarily. As far as I know 6 piece 22000 railcars will be able to run on the rosslare line when the new timetable is introduced in June.

That is not the case as the following stations cannot accomodate a 6 piece 22K and no derogation has been obtained:

Wicklow , Rathdrum , Arklow , Gorey and Rosslare Strand

While some of the platforms can be lengthened, Rathdrum cannot. Hence the problem.

The current plan is for one 3 piece to start operating in March on the 1305 ex-Connolly and 1740 ex-Rosslare, with 2800s retained on the rest of the services for the moment.

Judgement Day

Myapocalypse wrote: »

Not necessarily. As far as I know 6 piece 22000 railcars will be able to run on the rosslare line when the new timetable is introduced in June.

Hello. I think you're missing something here - the subject of this thread! Without selective door opening the platform lengths at Rathdrum and Gorey will rule out 6 coach sets.

Myapocalypse

Woops sorry. Ok but surely it will only take a year at the very most for the SDO 22000 fleet to arrive. Or maybe some are on their way over already!

dowlingm

myapocalypse, that tender implies none of the remaining 22s will be factory fitted with SDO. Accordingly, if Rosslare line requires SDO it means any previous intimation by IE that 22s would be on the Rosslare now/soon is crap since they bought non-SDO units and are only now tendering to get the SDO equipment to fit and test it.

Rathdrum was supposed be made six-car capable, no? How long a train can the existing platforms accommodate?

Judgement Day

What sort of morons run CIE/IE? No need to answer!
I mean if SDO could have been ordered in the first place - why wasn't it? Why was millions spent on lengthening platforms countrywide when SDO could have been installed in the trains?
Will anybody be held responsible for this oversight? No need to answer this either!
I suppose we should be grateful that they didn't forget to request seating for the 22000s.

Myapocalypse

how come the old orange intercity train that used the wexford line which was much longer than the current trains being used, had no problems with the platforms??? is a six car 22000 really longer than the orange train???

SeanW

Myapocalypse wrote: »

how come the old orange intercity train that used the wexford line which was much longer than the current trains being used, had no problems with the platforms??? is a six car 22000 really longer than the orange train???

Like the Sligo Line, the Rosslare route was run primarily with the Mark 2D "Supertrain," with the Cravens used for extra-peak services on Mondays and Fridays (at least since the 1980s).

These trains had manual doors, and when announcements were made about approaching stations, the guard/announcer would give directions approaching stations about which carriages would make the platform. Then, it was up to individuals to check that there was platform when they opened the door, which had to be done by way of lowering the window and turning the handle outside. In short, a certain amount of common sense was expected all around, in both the passengers and the crew to give timely and useful announcements. But as the Health and Safety brigade began looking at this, re-building of the railways began in earnest, and I had noticed the number and usefulness of Irish Rail announcments on board the old trains had diminished, the old practices became untenable.

However, since you couldn't just change this all overnight, the old trains were allowed to run in their usual way without modifications (central locking, SDO etc) under "Grandfather rights." I didn't think the health and safety brigade would even allow SDO, hence platform expansions were necessary.

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

myapocalypse, that tender implies none of the remaining 22s will be factory fitted with SDO. Accordingly, if Rosslare line requires SDO it means any previous intimation by IE that 22s would be on the Rosslare now/soon is crap since they bought non-SDO units and are only now tendering to get the SDO equipment to fit and test it.

Rathdrum was supposed be made six-car capable, no? How long a train can the existing platforms accommodate?

Unfortunately it was found that Rathdrum can only be extended long enough to accomodate 5-car 22K trains after the engineers examined the site.

KC61

Judgement Day wrote: »

What sort of morons run CIE/IE? No need to answer!
I mean if SDO could have been ordered in the first place - why wasn't it? Why was millions spent on lengthening platforms countrywide when SDO could have been installed in the trains?
Will anybody be held responsible for this oversight? No need to answer this either!
I suppose we should be grateful that they didn't forget to request seating for the 22000s.

While I agree that the trains should have had SDO from the outset, I don't think thtat extending the platfom lengths was in itself a waste of money.

This was something that needed addressing and does make the railway a safer environment.