Who's at fault?

preilly79

Sorry, another one of those 'who's at fault' questions, but given the hilarious thread I've just read about smoc and his antics I thought I'd ask.

I witnessed a crash last week and made a statement on behalf of one of the drivers.

So we all know that if you drive into the back of a person you're legally liable. Under the following circumstances (see below), does that still apply?

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I was travelling in the middle lane of the N7, city-bound. Approximately three/four car lengths ahead, and in the overtaking lane, was a white van travelling at roughly the same speed as I. The driver of the van was maintaining a very safe distance to the vehicle ahead of him based on the icy conditions present.

I noticed an Opel Astra move from the middle lane into the overtaking lane about two car lengths ahead of the van. There was a vehicle between my van and the Astra ahead, so I can't confirm if an indicator was used prior to the Astra's lane change. The astra was moving at a slower speed than the van, causing the van to break.

The hard-packed ice on the road meant the vans wheels locked, could not slow down in time and made contact with the Astra.
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What are your thoughts? Does the Astra driver have any accountability, and should/will that affect their ability to make a claim against the van driver?

peasant

leaving aside the fact that the road was icy ..the astra pulled into the overtaking lane at a slower speed than the vehicle already directly behind it.

= driving without due care and attention

Add ice = dangerous driving

If I was the judge, anyway

Mena

peasant wrote: »

leaving aside tha fact that the road was icy ..the astra pulled into the overtaking lane at a slower speed than the vehicle already directly behind it.

= driving without due care and attention

Add ice = dangerous driving

If I was the judge, anyway

Same for me, unfortunately I doubt it would be seen that way. I'd say the van driver will get nailed for this.

Big Nasty

Doesn't matter - we all know the driver in front of you could not avoid the smack given the conditions but the law states that you should be driving with enough space and caution to avoid such instances. Even if I pull out in front of you leaving two inches to spare going 40 on a 120 road and you hit me - it's your fault (well not really but you get the point)!

CharlieCroker

I'd say the astra driver, doesn't matter if it indicated or not.
If i was driving the van i'd be making an official complaint of dangerous driving against the astra driver. If nobody was injured, then the gardai wont get involved.

peasant

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Even if I pull out in front of you leaving two inches to spare going 40 on a 120 road and you hit me - it's your fault (well not really but you get the point)!

surely not ..at least not if you have witnesses, couldn't be

FuzzyWuzzyWazza

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Doesn't matter - we all know the driver in front of you could not avoid the smack given the conditions but the law states that you should be driving with enough space and caution to avoid such instances. Even if I pull out in front of you leaving two inches to spare going 40 on a 120 road and you hit me - it's your fault (well not really but you get the point)!

That can't be right, u can't rob someone of their safe breaking distance and not be held responsable. Think if someone pulled out infront of you at a junction, who would be at fault.

and OP, the middle lane of the N7 is also an overtaking lane.

Big Nasty

peasant wrote: »

surely not ..at least not if you have witnesses, couldn't be

Couldn't be....MMMMMM? Shouldn't be!

Maybe you could get away 50/50 due to contributary negligence. Anyhow, I was just using extremes for an example.

Big Nasty

FuzzyWuzzyWazza wrote: »

That can't be right, u can't rob someone of their safe breaking distance and not be held responsable. Think if someone pulled out infront of you at a junction, who would be at fault.

and OP, the middle lane of the N7 is also an overtaking lane.

See above post - I do agree!

The overtaking lane thing has been well worn here already and is off topic!

Anan1

The real issue in the situation the OP described is proof.

FuzzyWuzzyWazza

Depends what u consider off topic, this whole thread seems to be about lane discipline, or the lack thereof.:rolleyes:

Gumbo

preilly79 wrote: »

Sorry, another one of those 'who's at fault' questions, but given the hilarious thread I've just read about smoc and his antics I thought I'd ask.

I witnessed a crash last week and made a statement on behalf of one of the drivers.

So we all know that if you drive into the back of a person you're legally liable. Under the following circumstances (see below), does that still apply?

=======
I was travelling in the middle lane of the N7, city-bound. Approximately three/four car lengths ahead, and in the overtaking lane, was a white van travelling at roughly the same speed as I. The driver of the van was maintaining a very safe distance to the vehicle ahead of him based on the icy conditions present.

I noticed an Opel Astra move from the middle lane into the overtaking lane about two car lengths ahead of the van. There was a vehicle between my van and the Astra ahead, so I can't confirm if an indicator was used prior to the Astra's lane change. The astra was moving at a slower speed than the van, causing the van to break.

The hard-packed ice on the road meant the vans wheels locked, could not slow down in time and made contact with the Astra.
======

What are your thoughts? Does the Astra driver have any accountability, and should/will that affect their ability to make a claim against the van driver?

i hope you backed the van driver up on this one?
i would like to think the astra was at fault here, but god knows with the irish law :mad:

Random

Would love to know the outcome. Seems the problem here is going to be proof and your statement may swing it for the van man!

preilly79

kceire wrote: »

i hope you backed the van driver up on this one?
i would like to think the astra was at fault here, but god knows with the irish law :mad:

I did. I pulled in ahead of the Astra, checked to see if the driver was ok (poor girl was crying her eyes out), and passed my business card to the driver of the van. The above statement is what I sent to the insurance company who contacted me a day later.

I'd like to think the driver of the van is in the clear, but you never know how strictly the judge will interpret the law! If I hear any update, I'll be glad to let you all know.

preilly79

FuzzyWuzzyWazza wrote: »

and OP, the middle lane of the N7 is also an overtaking lane.

I know but for the sake of brevity and providing a clear statement it was easier to refer to the middle lane as such, and the overtaking lane as the overtaking lane. Didn't want to call it the 'inner overtaking lane' or something that might not be clear to whoever was reading it.

eringobragh

Anan1 wrote: »

The real issue in the situation the OP described is proof.

Indeed this is why I fitted a camera to the car. A few too many near ones :mad:

daveharnett

preilly79 wrote: »

So we all know that if you drive into the back of a person you're legally liable. Under the following circumstances (see below), does that still apply?

That is just a rule of thumb. The most common cause of rear-end colissions is inadequate separation distance. That does not apply in this scenario - it's no different than if the Astra had changed lanes straight into the side of the van IMO.

Well done OP. Your statement could make a big difference in this case.