Are our savings safe in Irish Banks?

TripleAce

A question that I would have never thought I was going to ask....but are our savings safe in Irish Banks at the moment? Is there any real danger for a bank to go bust and we lose our savings?

I am not really an expert in this field, but I currently hold saving accounts with AIB, Halifax Bank of Scotland and Rabo Direct. I have no other assets, apart from shares. Is there a real danger out there? I know Rabo is a Dutch Bank, would I be better of moving it all in there? Should I move my savings to some foreign bank?

What's the current maximum guaranteed by the Irish Government?

Thank you for your advices.

pocketdooz

TripleAce wrote: »

A question that I would have never thought I was going to ask....but are our savings safe in Irish Banks at the moment? Is there any real danger for a bank to go bust and we lose our savings?

I am not really an expert in this field, but I currently hold saving accounts with AIB, Halifax Bank of Scotland and Rabo Direct. I have no other assets, apart from shares. Is there a real danger out there? I know Rabo is a Dutch Bank, would I be better of moving it all in there? Should I move my savings to some foreign bank?

What's the current maximum guaranteed by the Irish Government?

Thank you for your advices.

If you are really concerned - call the Financial Regulator for accurate advice of this magnitude.

Or visit - itsyourmoney dot com

good luck

Mark200

I'm pretty sure the Government have guaranteed all savings.

I think originally they set it at around 20,000 per person per bank....which caused people to take out anything above 20,000 and put it in different banks and basically spread it around. But also caused worry over people who had a lot more than that. So then the Government just said they'd guarantee everything.

But if a major bank goes bankrupt we're in the shit anyway

pocketdooz

Mark200 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the Government have guaranteed all savings.

I think originally they set it at around 20,000 per person per bank....which caused people to take out anything above 20,000 and put it in different banks and basically spread it around. But also caused worry over people who had a lot more than that. So then the Government just said they'd guarantee everything.

But if a major bank goes bankrupt we're in the shit anyway

This is not entirely accurate as some banks are not covered my the scheme.


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Mort5000

pocketdooz wrote: »

If you are really concerned - call the Financial Regulator for accurate advice of this magnitude.

Or visit - itsyourmoney dot com

good luck

^^ dot IE

dotsman

All those banks are relatively safe.

See here for full details, but AIB is fully guaranteed and both Halifax and Rabo are guaranteed up to €100,000.

bog basher

Does the government guarantee now mean anything?

pocketdooz

bog basher wrote: »

Does the government guarantee now mean anything?

That's a very interesting question. It's means something in so much as the government has the capacity to guarantee anything at the moment.

The real question is what happens is the budget doesn't get passed and the IMF / EU cannot thrash out a deal with this country. I'd say a 10-15% probability of this happening in my opinion.

If this does happen then No, I don't the guarantee is worth much because the only way we can deal with bank upcoming maturities is to haricut the debt they owe, which will also haircut the deposits in the banks.

This is a very complicated issue and there are many different potential outcomes. Personally (and this is only my own personal opinion) I would not be happy having any sort of significant deposits in AIB / BOI / Anglo / EBS etc.

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dotsman

pocketdooz wrote: »

If this does happen then No, I don't the guarantee is worth much because the only way we can deal with bank upcoming maturities is to haricut the debt they owe, which will also haircut the deposits in the banks.

I have no idea where this is coming from. Nobody has ever suggested a "haircut" on deposits, nor would they. Any attempt to do anything like this would be the equivalent of pulling the trigger on this economy and I just can't imagine anybody from within the Irish Government, EU or IMF allowing this to happen, let alone suggesting it.

pocketdooz

dotsman wrote: »

I have no idea where this is coming from. Nobody has ever suggested a "haircut" on deposits, nor would they. Any attempt to do anything like this would be the equivalent of pulling the trigger on this economy and I just can't imagine anybody from within the Irish Government, EU or IMF allowing this to happen, let alone suggesting it.

The bank senior bonds and deposits are treated equally under Irish banking legislation.

i.e. - if there is a haircut on the bonds, there will be one on deposits.

So, like I said ....

if "the budget doesn't get passed and the IMF / EU cannot thrash out a deal with this country" - there is no liquidity to repay the debt the banks owe and a haircut becomes a reality.

I didn't say this is likely but it's definetely within the realms of possibilities - it's happened in countless countries before.

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pocketdooz

Mohamen El-Erian, one of the most astute investors in the world, CEO of Pimco, the largest bond investor in the world, ex head of the Harvard Endowment Fund, ex Deputy Dirctor at the IMF makes some interesting comments today ....

"Unless European officials act quickly enough to calm the crisis, Ireland risks a “major bank run,” Pacific Investment Management Co. Co-Chief Investment Officer Mohamed A. El-Erian said today. Allied Irish Banks Plc, the country’s second-largest bank, said Nov. 19 that its deposits dropped by about 13 billion euros -- or 17 percent -- since the start of the year.
“The numbers so far have shown that the Irish banking system has been bleeding deposits,” El-Erian said in a Bloomberg Radio interview on “Bloomberg Surveillance” with Tom Keene. “It will seriously undermine the prosperity of this country for a generation.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/el-erian-irish-banks-2010-11
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whysomoody

The major problem with things like this are that they are self-fulfilling prophecies in so far as if everyone started removing them due to safety concerns there would be a safety concern.

On the other hand if everyone switched their money into the irish banks, there would be less risk to deposits.

I for one dislike advocating the former as it will only do damage to the country.

Bob_Latchford

whysomoody wrote: »

The major problem with things like this are that they are self-fulfilling prophecies in so far as if everyone started removing them due to safety concerns there would be a safety concern.

On the other hand if everyone switched their money into the irish banks, there would be less risk to deposits.

I for one dislike advocating the former as it will only do damage to the country.

Heard you can buy insurance on bonds defaulting without actually owning the bonds. Sounds bit like short selling to me.

If we knew PIMCO would not profit from a run on the Irish banks then I would be more likely to listen. They must be exposed in some way and given his comments it would be interesting to see what it was

Become

dotsman wrote: »

I have no idea where this is coming from. Nobody has ever suggested a "haircut" on deposits, nor would they. Any attempt to do anything like this would be the equivalent of pulling the trigger on this economy and I just can't imagine anybody from within the Irish Government, EU or IMF allowing this to happen, let alone suggesting it.

Guess you haven't seen this thread started by Ask About Money founder Brendan Burgess yet? ... there are really people out there...!!

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=146453

whysomoody

Become wrote: »

Guess you haven't seen this thread started by Ask About Money founder Brendan Burgess yet? ... there are really people out there...!!

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=146453

retarded post...by him obv

dotsman

whysomoody wrote: »

retarded post...by him obv

Can't believe the media sometime ask his "expert" opinion!

He's basically saying that people should be taxed for not causing a bank run (and thus, the collapse of the banks/economy)!

Dodd

dotsman wrote: »

Can't believe the media sometime ask his "expert" opinion!

He's basically saying that people should be taxed for not causing a bank run (and thus, the collapse of the banks/economy)!

He is an idiot and he and his mods are posting on boards(here).:eek:

whysomoody

Dodd wrote: »

He is an idiot and he and his mods are posting on boards(here).:eek:

What does he post as?

paidi09

pocketdooz wrote: »

That's a very interesting question. It's means something in so much as the government has the capacity to guarantee anything at the moment.

The real question is what happens is the budget doesn't get passed and the IMF / EU cannot thrash out a deal with this country. I'd say a 10-15% probability of this happening in my opinion.

If this does happen then No, I don't the guarantee is worth much because the only way we can deal with bank upcoming maturities is to haricut the debt they owe, which will also haircut the deposits in the banks.

This is a very complicated issue and there are many different potential outcomes. Personally (and this is only my own personal opinion) I would not be happy having any sort of significant deposits in AIB / BOI / Anglo / EBS etc.

.

How about An Post? Where do they stand in all this if things really go belly up. I put a fair sum of cash into saving certs about 15 mths ago thinking it would be safer than any of the banks. They are state guaranteed as I understand it but that might not count for much in a worst case scenario? Starting to have doubts now. Thinking of getting it out of there

whysomoody

paidi09 wrote: »

How about An Post? Where do they stand in all this if things really go belly up. I put a fair sum of cash into saving certs about 15 mths ago thinking it would be safer than any of the banks. They are state guaranteed as I understand it but that might not count for much in a worst case scenario? Starting to have doubts now. Thinking of getting it out of there

All the others are state guaranteed as well.

pocketdooz

paidi09 wrote: »

How about An Post? Where do they stand in all this if things really go belly up. I put a fair sum of cash into saving certs about 15 mths ago thinking it would be safer than any of the banks. They are state guaranteed as I understand it but that might not count for much in a worst case scenario? Starting to have doubts now. Thinking of getting it out of there

Personally, I would have my money in either Ulster Bank (owned by RBS) or National Irish Bank (owned by Danske Bank) myself.

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Antrim_Man

pocketdooz wrote: »

Personally, I would have my money in either Ulster Bank (owned by RBS) or National Irish Bank (owned by Danske Bank) myself.

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RBS are far from safe. I would be looking for a bank that has not had a bailout and is not part state owned. Is there a safe bank in Ireland? Rabo/ACC bank??

martyoo

RBS are far from safe. I would be looking for a bank that has not had a bailout and is not part state owned. Is there a safe bank in Ireland? Rabo?

Rabo are a good bank to deal with if you have a savings, term deposit of a fund account with them.
They are not really suitable for a current account.
My current account is with PTSB.

Its actually surprising Rabo dont capitalize on this.

Antrim_Man

martyoo wrote: »

Rabo are a good bank to deal with if you have a savings, term deposit of a fund account with them.
They are not really suitable for a current account.
My current account is with PTSB.

Its actually surprising Rabo dont capitalize on this.

Agree.

JTMan

Rabo have been all over this like a rash. They have played the safety card and their deposits have soared as a result.

creeper1

No-one has addressed the fundamental concern that savers have. That is - a surprise changing over of your euros to an punt nua.

A lot of economists are warning the euro has major flaws.

MICKEYG

creeper1 wrote: »

No-one has addressed the fundamental concern that savers have. That is - a surprise changing over of your euros to an punt nua.

A lot of economists are warning the euro has major flaws.

Agree. I have some money saved for a house deposit. Not happy with this Euro risk. Thinking of taking it out and hopping on a plane to Berlin to open a new account. Any ideas on a good safe German bank?

whysomoody

MICKEYG wrote: »

Agree. I have some money saved for a house deposit. Not happy with this Euro risk. Thinking of taking it out and hopping on a plane to Berlin to open a new account. Any ideas on a good safe German bank?

How would you get it back?

MICKEYG

whysomoody wrote: »

How would you get it back?

I would assume I could just do the reverse if I want to bring it back into Ireland.

dotsman

We can't change back. Certainly not anytime soon. There would be no benefits (as our debt's are in Euro), nor any mechanism (it took years to plan the conversion to the Euro, a stable currency, we'd have a few hours to convert to a highly unstable, doomed currency).

For some easy-to-understand reasons it won't happen, I'd suggest reading here:
"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11830532"

whysomoody

MICKEYG wrote: »

I would assume I could just do the reverse if I want to bring it back into Ireland.

If you believe the new currency will be worthless so you put it in Germany, how do you get to Germany with your new worthless money?

I'm being slightly facetious there, but the point is that putting your money in a German bank account isn't the perfect solution - there are issues with that too.

creeper1

dotsman wrote: »

We can't change back. Certainly not anytime soon. There would be no benefits (as our debt's are in Euro), nor any mechanism (it took years to plan the conversion to the Euro, a stable currency, we'd have a few hours to convert to a highly unstable, doomed currency).

For some easy-to-understand reasons it won't happen, I'd suggest reading here:
"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11830532"

It's an absolute certainty that Ireland and a number of other debt laden countries will come out of the euro. You actually think Ireland is NOT going to default on it's monstrous debts????

The process will be similar to what happened in Argentina.

Step 1 - Default on all debts.

Step 2 - There will co-ordinated capital controls placed on all banks to limit the amount of money you can take out on one day to around 300 euros.

Step 3 - Then over the period of around a month funny money called "an punt nua" will be issued

There is absolutely no question this is how it's going to happen. There is no way in the world Ireland can take the pain needed to balance it's books without heading into a death spiral.

Thargor

creeper1 wrote: »

There is absolutely no question this is how it's going to happen.

Looks like thats it then, "An Punt Nua" it is :eek:

betonit

creeper1 wrote: »

It's an absolute certainty that Ireland and a number of other debt laden countries will come out of the euro. You actually think Ireland is NOT going to default on it's monstrous debts????

The process will be similar to what happened in Argentina.

Step 1 - Default on all debts.

Step 2 - There will co-ordinated capital controls placed on all banks to limit the amount of money you can take out on one day to around 300 euros.

Step 3 - Then over the period of around a month funny money called "an punt nua" will be issued

There is absolutely no question this is how it's going to happen. There is no way in the world Ireland can take the pain needed to balance it's books without heading into a death spiral.

Argentina is on its own, we're part of the eu zone 14 other countries surely the eu will prevent what your saying at all costs as its germany that will lose out most of all. When it comes to it wont we just be bailed out again and the eu just print money which will lead to a devaluation. I also think the non euro countries like sweden UK denmark are lending us money because they dont want us to fail, ie they dont want a devalued euro.

dotsman

creeper1 wrote: »

It's an absolute certainty that Ireland and a number of other debt laden countries will come out of the euro.

It is far from an absolute certainty. If it is to happen, it certainly won't be any tie soon.

creeper1 wrote: »

You actually think Ireland is NOT going to default on it's monstrous debts????

Why would it? What benefit is there? If there ever comes a time when we need to, it certainly won't be for a number of years.

P.S. We don't have monstrous debts. Our debts are very small. The current problem is that our debts are growing at an alarming rate, due to the massive budget deficit. But the debts we have accumulated to date are by no means disastrous.

See here for for Ireland's position globally in relation to debt

creeper1 wrote: »

The process will be similar to what happened in Argentina.

Only a fool would try that. It was badly implemented in Argentina, and would be even far more difficult to implement here.

creeper1 wrote: »

Step 1 - Default on all debts.

Would only make the problem worse. Our problem is not the huge amount of debt we have. It is the huge amount of debt we need to take on until we get our budget balanced. By defaulting on our debts, we shut ourselves off from the market. As you may have noticed, we already have difficulties trying to borrow from the market, so have had to resort to the IMF - the lender of last resort. If we default, and not even the IMF is willing to lend, then goodbye Ireland, hello stone age.

creeper1 wrote: »

Step 2 - There will co-ordinated capital controls placed on all banks to limit the amount of money you can take out on one day to around 300 euros.

Absolutely ridiculous plan. Didn't work in Argentina, and certainly won't work here.

creeper1 wrote: »

Step 3 - Then over the period of around a month funny money called "an punt nua" will be issued

Which will collapse immediately because,not only have we just screwed the markets, but we have not addressed the underlying problem.

creeper1 wrote: »

There is absolutely no question this is how it's going to happen.

Wow, you really have very little understanding of what's going on. Trust me, the plan you have just laid out as certain is extremely questionable.

goat2

bog basher wrote: »

Does the government guarantee now mean anything?

to me, it means nothing, they could change their minds tomorrow, they have been doing that with the last yr anyway, so what is to stop them, and sure we are now run by brussells, so anything the mob we ourselves have, can be overruled, as they are doing as they are being told by brussells, which translates that we have no government

Qualitymark

Even if you have your money in, say, RaboBank, you can only take it out (they tell me) into an Irish bank account. So what's the difference?